Getting info on GT3s?
Discussion
Still thinking about GT3s, are there any good places to get info about the differences between clubsport and comfort packages, including which was more originally?
I'm more drawn to the CS setup, but not sure about that front roll cage as it looks pretty intrusive. Do people find that to be the case? I could probably do without that, but I don't think you get the LSD, and other uprated mechanicals on the comfort?
Theres a bit of an article on them in this months GT Purely Porsche, but its not overladen with info.
edit to add that I'm thinking about a mk1, and am unlikely to be able to stretch to a mk2.
>>> Edited by DanH on Thursday 14th April 16:44
Most people take front section of roll bar out ( i have).
It's good for when you are on track with a helmet on, but the theory out there is that if your head hits it without a helmet on, then your F****d !
I'm pretty sure all GT3's have LSD's, both CS and comforts.
CS MKI's had a lighter flywheel aswell.
G.
It's good for when you are on track with a helmet on, but the theory out there is that if your head hits it without a helmet on, then your F****d !
I'm pretty sure all GT3's have LSD's, both CS and comforts.
CS MKI's had a lighter flywheel aswell.
G.
I had a Mk1 GT Club Sport for 2 years but it only had the rear cage fitted and the cloth bucket seats cause more hassle getting in/out but worth it as they are the best seats I've sat in. Only about 1 in 4 GT3's made were in CS guise so rarer and more desireable I'd say.
Biggest change over the comfort is the single mass flywheel, which improves throttle response. I believe the supensension set up is also stiffer than a comfort too although never managed to get concrete info on the differences. You'll also find an electrical cut out in front of the gearlever.
Watch out for speedbumps,etc as the front is very low. Also not great on bumpy B roads but elsewhere fantastic with great engine and handling.
Biggest change over the comfort is the single mass flywheel, which improves throttle response. I believe the supensension set up is also stiffer than a comfort too although never managed to get concrete info on the differences. You'll also find an electrical cut out in front of the gearlever.
Watch out for speedbumps,etc as the front is very low. Also not great on bumpy B roads but elsewhere fantastic with great engine and handling.
The general consensus is that front cages are dangerous with or without a helmet unless you are tightly strapped in using harnesses. I don't have seat belts in my 993 RS (these would be dangerous if used with a full cage I think), but I do have 6 point harnesses and I strap up tight whenever I get in the car.
Mk 1 GT3 CS had a light weight flywheel, the comfort version didn't. The mark 2s have the same flywheel for CS or comfort I think.
You can get a GT3 mk2 for 60 grand now. It's a newer car, more power, probably still under warranty too. So the difference in price isn't huge.
Mk 1 GT3 CS had a light weight flywheel, the comfort version didn't. The mark 2s have the same flywheel for CS or comfort I think.
You can get a GT3 mk2 for 60 grand now. It's a newer car, more power, probably still under warranty too. So the difference in price isn't huge.
both versions are exactly the same except the club sport had a full cage, nomex seats, a single mas flywheel and a battery isolator switch. Everything else was exactly the same. Most Comfort versions have subsiquently been fitted with cages & harnesses. There is no difference in track performance.
Steve R
Steve R
there are several versions of impact resistant foam (e.g. memory foam) used to clad exposed cage bars. Depending upon where your head is in relation to the B pillar, and depending upon how tall you are (i.e. how close your head is vertically to the bar running from the top of the A pillar to the top of the B pillar), this may or may not pose a problem. I use my RS with a cage no problem. I am 6'5" and almost squashed up against it in both directions.
Each to their own though. It's your head at the end of the day. I don't have a lot to protect!!
PS Johnny, depending upon what type of release mechanism your harness has, it may be illegal for road use (i.e. not DoT approved). This is often why some cars retain their standard diagonal belts.
Each to their own though. It's your head at the end of the day. I don't have a lot to protect!!
PS Johnny, depending upon what type of release mechanism your harness has, it may be illegal for road use (i.e. not DoT approved). This is often why some cars retain their standard diagonal belts.
fergus said:
PS Johnny, depending upon what type of release mechanism your harness has, it may be illegal for road use (i.e. not DoT approved). This is often why some cars retain their standard diagonal belts.
I know Fergus. It seems mad really. I have FIA approved (very expensive) Schroth 6 point harnesses for driver and passenger, and they are probably illegal (they have the turn-style release). They must be 10 times safer than inertia reel seat belts.
Having said that, harnesses are only safer than seatbelts if you have a roll cage as well.....and they must also be mounted and worn correctly.
There's a good article in this months GT Purely Porsche about the Mk1 GT3 and why it will be a future classic - it details a lot of the differences. Some of its numbers are wrong, but basically there were only 28 Mk1 RHD clubsports brought into the UK which makes it one of the rarest Porsche ever.
Most of the info you want is here:
www.titanic.co.uk/GT3/GT32e.htm
I too have removed the front section of my cage - easy to do, not a dealership job.
>> Edited by GreigM on Thursday 14th April 19:14
Most of the info you want is here:
www.titanic.co.uk/GT3/GT32e.htm
I too have removed the front section of my cage - easy to do, not a dealership job.
>> Edited by GreigM on Thursday 14th April 19:14
GreigM said:
There's a good article in this months GT Purely Porsche about the Mk1 GT3 and why it will be a future classic - it details a lot of the differences. Some of its numbers are wrong, but basically there were only 28 Mk1 RHD clubsports brought into the UK which makes it one of the rarest Porsche ever.
Most of the info you want is here:
<a href="http://www.titanic.co.uk/GT3/GT32e.htm"><a href="http://www.titanic.co.uk/GT3/GT32e.htm"><a href="http://www.titanic.co.uk/GT3/GT32e.htm">www.titanic.co.uk/GT3/GT32e.htm</a></a></a>
I too have removed the front section of my cage - easy to do, not a dealership job.
>> Edited by GreigM on Thursday 14th April 19:14
Yep I've got that article and it suggests that the CS has a different diff, larger wheel bearings, stiffing suspension, solid gear linkage, adjustable ARBs and larger brakes. Or is that just poor wording and only the single mass fly wheel is different to the comfort (although it seems to suggest the gear linkage is a definate difference).
I think I'd be happy with a comfort if the mechanicals are the same. I just want it to be bloody solid because if I dump this much cash into a car its going to have to last me. Can you fit harnesses in the comfort spec? I'm guessing no as the seats don't appear to have slots. Conversely can you fit regular belts in the CS? Thats one great thing about the noble, it has both as I hate harnesses on the road, but love them on track.
What are they like on the road in terms of comfort? I'm coming from an Elise and a Noble, so I'm happy to accept compromise. Presumably I'm not going to find a GT3 shockingly raw after those?
Johnny - as to get a mk2, the mk1 seems to be 45k+ now, so 60 is a pretty big difference. I also find the styling more attractive and by all accounts they are a slightly more raw experience which appeals too (less understeer?!).
Thanks for all the info and links everyone. It all helps!
gah! Just read the link and no one bought one in Seal Grey. I'm gutted
>> Edited by DanH on Thursday 14th April 19:51
steve rance said:
They are wrong. The only mechanical difference is the diff. They are a lot of car for the money..
Try one
Steve R
Ah so the diff is different - in what way? Is there no LSD in the comfort?
Whats it take to mount harnesses in the comfort? New seats and mounting on the rear cage?
Thanks again.
>> Edited by DanH on Thursday 14th April 21:06
fergus said:Have to say that IMHO (old J Senna's not the only doctor in here) if your head hits something with any significant energy the sort of foam it's clad in is likely to make bugger all difference.
there are several versions of impact resistant foam (e.g. memory foam) used to clad exposed cage bars. Depending upon where your head is in relation to the B pillar, and depending upon how tall you are (i.e. how close your head is vertically to the bar running from the top of the A pillar to the top of the B pillar), this may or may not pose a problem. I use my RS with a cage no problem. I am 6'5" and almost squashed up against it in both directions.
johnny senna said:Not sure about that - I've taken 2 cars through SVA where the inspectors took a great deal of interest in the harnesses. The Westfield had a standard 4 point harness with pushbutton release, the Ultima a 6 point with aircraft style turnbuckle, and they were happy with both. It may well depend on what kitemarks etc. you have, I assume FIA approval counts for nowt so far as the DoT/VOSA is concerned.
PS Johnny, depending upon what type of release mechanism your harness has, it may be illegal for road use (i.e. not DoT approved). This is often why some cars retain their standard diagonal belts.
DanH said:No, they're relatively civilised - I've come from an Evo VII and an Ultima and consider the GT3 the lap of luxury
What are they like on the road in terms of comfort? I'm coming from an Elise and a Noble, so I'm happy to accept compromise. Presumably I'm not going to find a GT3 shockingly raw after those?
DanH said:I suspect that's a typo on Steve's part and that he meant to say the flywheel. So far as I'm aware ALL GT3s, both Mk 1 and Mk 2 have an LSD. But I wouldn't argue with Steve
They are wrong. The only mechanical difference is the diff. They are a lot of car for the money..
How mileage sensitive are these cars? Most seem to be pretty low mileage, so is one with 25k considered a bit leggy? Theres another one being advertised, with 65k on the clock, at the moment where the whole back seems to have been converted into a sub box and alpine shrine - I imagine both aspects of that are considered ruinous to its value*?
* It doesn't appeal to me, but trying to get my a feel for the market.
DanH said:
How mileage sensitive are these cars? Most seem to be pretty low mileage, so is one with 25k considered a bit leggy? Theres another one being advertised, with 65k on the clock, at the moment where the whole back seems to have been converted into a sub box and alpine shrine - I imagine both aspects of that are considered ruinous to its value*?
* It doesn't appeal to me, but trying to get my a feel for the market.
Mileage bascially doesn't matter as long as the car has been looked after. There was one which had the engine stripped down after 40K and there were almost no signs of wear at all.
These engines come from the "old school" of porsche reliability and well looked after will easily hit 200K.
High mileage and speakers probably indicates mostly motorway/street miles which isn't at all taxing for a GT3 - just make sure it has history.
There are some cars out there, 2yr old with 2K or under miles, which probably indicates trailer to track and all track miles - the 60K engine is probably in no worse condition - and in both cases will more than likely be excellent.
>> Edited by GreigM on Friday 15th April 10:21
GreigM said:
How mileage sensitive are these cars? Most seem to be pretty low mileage, so is one with 25k considered a bit leggy? Theres another one being advertised, with 65k on the clock, at the moment where the whole back seems to have been converted into a sub box and alpine shrine - I imagine both aspects of that are considered ruinous to its value*?
* It doesn't appeal to me, but trying to get my a feel for the market.
Mileage bascially doesn't matter as long as the car has been looked after. There was one which had the engine stripped down after 40K and there were almost no signs of wear at all.
These engines come from the "old school" of porsche reliability and well looked after will easily hit 200K.
High mileage and speakers probably indicates mostly motorway/street miles which isn't at all taxing for a GT3 - just make sure it has history.
There are some cars out there, 2yr old with 2K or under miles, which probably indicates trailer to track and all track miles - the 60K engine is probably in no worse condition - and in both cases will more than likely be excellent.
>> Edited by GreigM on Friday 15th April 10:21
Surely high mileage on a 'track special' is going to affect desireability and resale if most of the others of its type have less.
Its one thing having a leggy C2 etc, surely another a GT3?
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