Track Day Help

[pac man]

Hello All

I'm a long time lurker and post very little.

I've decided that my love of cars needs to translate as well into some track days with the little spare time i have.

I have a Porsche itch to scratch as well.

The car will be far more competent than i will be.

So for an Ok but a relative novice on track what do i go for?

I'm thinking GT4 or 996 GT3.

GT4 i prefer the idea of as newer as well.

I can drive to and from the track in relative comfort and have some fun in it when not on track.

Am i missing anything or does my logic work?

Many thanks

Paul

Edited by pac man on Monday 8th January 11:04

[Twinfan]

That's exactly what the GT3 and GT4 were designed for. You pays yer money and takes yer choice

[TDT]

Your logic is correct.
GT4 is newer and will be easier to live with both on and off track. Once you’re up to speed the GT4 will be faster too given advancements in chassis and tyre tech, as well as benign balance of mid-engine.
That said, a nice 996 GT3 will still be a lovely thing, and increasingly getting more love.
Really down to budget and what you prefer as Twinfan says.... buy the spec you like, also look at cars that have a bit of mileage on them… might make you less worried/precious about using it and then drive the wheels off it.

Edited by TDT on Monday 8th January 11:34

[pac man]

Thanks Gents.

I like the look of the Manthey GT3 at 911 Virgin (although wonder why it’s sat around for so long)

Also like the GT4 at Bramley.

Need to make a decision soon!

[LaSource]

6GT3 is more raw, purer, and has 911 traits which are a journey to learn (persevere and it rewards). However, you will be more likely spending something (but not horrendous) on a few mods here and there.

GT4 is more refined, easier, newer, and works out of the box without needing much modification.

Both are about the same pace (notwithstanding the GT4 being easier to extract pace from and therefore may initially 'appear' to be quicker to many)

Personally, I had both and retained the 996. It is becoming more of a classic car too.
But I'm sure others may have gone the other way.

[isaldiri]

pac man said:

So for an Ok but a relative novice on track what do i go for?

I'm thinking GT4 or 996 GT3.

GT4 i prefer the idea of as newer as well.

I can drive to and from the track in relative comfort and have some fun in it when not on track.

Given the above, the gt4 probably would be the better car for you but would definitely recommend you get a half decent drive in both first before plonking down the cash on one.

[Porsche911R]

Get a Lotus :-)

[boxsey]

Porsche911R said:

Get a Lotus :-)

I think his point about driving to and from the track in relative comfort puts a Lotus out of the picture. I spent some time last week at my local Lotus dealer looking over their current stock (mostly elises and exiges and one evora) but I could not persuade myself that they would be bearable on a long trip to the likes of Spa. Especially when you want to carry a lot of stuff and a passenger. I think that's where the Cayman platform wins for those of us of a certain vintage!

As much as I love the 996GT3 and have always wanted to own one, I'm pretty sure that there would be some significant extra maintenance expenditure required before taking it on track for the first time (in my experience no matter how well an old model has been maintained there's always something that crops up) which could mean that the total spent on a 996GT3 would be close to GT4 money.

[lowndes]

I was in a similar situation to you looking for a first track car except that it was 12 years ago. Come to think of it I may have posted a similar question on here. The choice at the time was between 964RS and 996 GT3. I went for the 964RS. After three enjoyable years I swapped the RS for a 996GT3 but found I never really gelled so move on to the 997.2 GT3 CS which I still have and find to be an ideal track car.

996 GT3 are going to be 15 years old and likely to need some money spent, they are sensitive to geometry and spring perches may well be seized, front condensers and rads may also be shot. I think I would only go 996GT3 if I were prepared to invest serious time and effort on both the car and the driver. They are rewarding but not that readily accessible on first acquaintance.

I have no experience of the GT4 so can’t comment on it as a comparison with the 996 GT3.

[pac man]

As fun as they are for me just too uncomfortable. Maybe it’s age catching up with me.

Seems to pointing in the direction GT4 and hopefully take up less of my time in maintenance.

I’m sure this has been talked about plenty........are ceramics a must?

A had them n my last panamera turbo and they were outstanding. Although not tracked on some hard use driving events they were faultless.

[TDT]

Standard GT4 brakes are the same spec as on the 991.1 GT3 - so 6pot upfront 4pot on the rear - 380mm disk all round.. more than up to the job.
Ceramics are lovely and to many have a subjectively better pedal feel... bigger discs up front.. 410mm - they ought to last for a long time... and no brake dust... however expensive to replace with OEM parts if they expire or get damaged - think stones getting caught between the rotor and gouging it out and chipping especially if you end up in kitty litter if you're thinking of tracking.
GT4 Brakes - 'gently over engineered' is the term that was used!
A number of people with Ceramics that are intent on tracking a lot swap out the OEM discs for Aftermarket Steel discs. - Ceramics seem to be a UK phenom... everywhere else people intent on tracking look for Steel equipped as replacement costs are much lower and they are seemingly less fragile.

[pac man]

Thank you. Really appreciate the replies.

996 I’m happy now too much effort for the limited time I have due to work/family

GT4 for what I’m looking to spend seems best option - start the car and go have fun.

After TDT reply - thank you - I won’t go out looking for ceramics.

If the right spec/colour comes then I’ll be happy.

For the circa £80k price point i can’t think of anything better to fit the bill!!!!

[Porsche911R]

pac man said:

Thank you. Really appreciate the replies.

996 I’m happy now too much effort for the limited time I have due to work/family

GT4 for what I’m looking to spend seems best option - start the car and go have fun.

After TDT reply - thank you - I won’t go out looking for ceramics.

If the right spec/colour comes then I’ll be happy.

For the circa £80k price point i can’t think of anything better to fit the bill!!!!

Do you do want to buy some adjustable toe links the GT4 is not track worthy oem lol ;-)

also put aside £1.5k per track day imo, I would want better track pads also, the oem are a bit pants and again fluid need to be upped.

bar that I think a GT4 is the best bet.

[Steff]

boxsey said:

I think his point about driving to and from the track in relative comfort puts a Lotus out of the picture. I spent some time last week at my local Lotus dealer looking over their current stock (mostly elises and exiges and one evora) but I could not persuade myself that they would be bearable on a long trip to the likes of Spa. Especially when you want to carry a lot of stuff and a passenger. I think that's where the Cayman platform wins for those of us of a certain vintage!

If you were talking about an early elise then I'd agree but you could easily use an Evora on track without any on road compromise.

[pac man]

Thank you 911R.

I will do. I love my cars and don’t mind spending to keep them mint and get the best out of them.

I looked at GT3 but at the moment the extra £50k would be wasted on me.

GT4 it is and can tweak as I learn.

Next job will be arrange some track tuition 😀

Thanks for help all

[ginettajoe]

pac man said:

Thank you 911R.

I will do. I love my cars and don’t mind spending to keep them mint and get the best out of them.

I looked at GT3 but at the moment the extra £50k would be wasted on me.

GT4 it is and can tweak as I learn.

Next job will be arrange some track tuition ??

Thanks for help all

Are you a member of the PCGB? If not, it is worth joining for several reasons, one being that they organise trackdays throughout the year, at most of the major circuits. There are many people like yourself who attend the days, and you won't experience some of the wild antics of the "hot hatch brigade"! Because the cars are generally of a higher value, the attitude of those attending is more sympathetic, and problems are minimised! I instruct on some of the PCGB days, predominantly Donington, Croft, Anglesey and Oulton Park, but occasionally on others!! Hopefully we'll meet on one of the days!

[Steve Rance]

The GT4 is a more accessible car and you will be able to explore more of its performance with less experience. The GT3 gives up its performance less easily so will require more wheel time and specialist driver instruction.

The GT4 is similar in pace and price to a 997 GT3. Both very good cars. Personally, I’d take the GT3, it’s the more rewarding drive.

[red997]

exactly what Steve said;
couldn't have put it better myself

[LaSource]

lowndes said:

I was in a similar situation to you looking for a first track car except that it was 12 years ago. Come to think of it I may have posted a similar question on here. The choice at the time was between 964RS and 996 GT3. I went for the 964RS. After three enjoyable years I swapped the RS for a 996GT3 but found I never really gelled so move on to the 997.2 GT3 CS which I still have and find to be an ideal track car.

996 GT3 are going to be 15 years old and likely to need some money spent, they are sensitive to geometry and spring perches may well be seized, front condensers and rads may also be shot. I think I would only go 996GT3 if I were prepared to invest serious time and effort on both the car and the driver. They are rewarding but not that readily accessible on first acquaintance.

I have no experience of the GT4 so can’t comment on it as a comparison with the 996 GT3.

Ref the 996 GT3 - just depends on getting one that has had consistent maintenance. The above list of items should only be there in a neglected car.
Infact a car used regularly on track and regularly maintained (eg Indy stamps/receipts annually or more frequent) will give the best service condition and likely require the least maintenance with no surprises.
A Sunday car used sparingly and therefore visiting garages after long gaps (eg OPC stamps every two years) more likely to have stacked up issues.

I'd rather buy a tracked car (but not stacked ) than a garage queen if I wanted to keep maintenance in check

[hunter 66]

LaSource said:

Ref the 996 GT3 - just depends on getting one that has had consistent maintenance. The above list of items should only be there in a neglected car.
Infact a car used regularly on track and regularly maintained (eg Indy stamps/receipts annually or more frequent) will give the best service condition and likely require the least maintenance with no surprises.
A Sunday car used sparingly and therefore visiting garages after long gaps (eg OPC stamps every two years) more likely to have stacked up issues.

I'd rather buy a tracked car (but not stacked ) than a garage queen if I wanted to keep maintenance in check

Think Lowndes bought my car which is now the Jack Wood car ( Porsche GT magazine ) . Mine was always serviced at OPC West London ........... and yes made a few trips to the Ring / Spa ........ am back into a 996 .... a 2001 GT3 RS which we just did the Classic Daytona 24 hr in ......... like the analogue nature ...of older GT3's..