dislike of turbos in Porsche’s
Discussion
I read a lot of the horror that the 718 Cayman is a 4 pot with a turbo. I get that 4 cylinders and the small engine is not attractive on the face of it (I’ve a 6 cyl one myself), but I’m curious about this hatred of turbos in Porsche’s in particular, including the 911?
I know why turbos themselves have faults, they have the lag issue, but what I find confusing as a Porsche newbie observer is one of the most iconic and saught after Porkers had a turbo, the 911 turbo? What I find odd is people enthuse about the 911 turbo yet there’s disdain for Porsche’s with turbos? Confused much
Any beardies please don’t shoot my balls off
I know why turbos themselves have faults, they have the lag issue, but what I find confusing as a Porsche newbie observer is one of the most iconic and saught after Porkers had a turbo, the 911 turbo? What I find odd is people enthuse about the 911 turbo yet there’s disdain for Porsche’s with turbos? Confused much
Any beardies please don’t shoot my balls off
Buggyjam said:
I read a lot of the horror that the 718 Cayman is a 4 pot with a turbo. I get that 4 cylinders and the small engine is not attractive on the face of it (I’ve a 6 cyl one myself), but I’m curious about this hatred of turbos in Porsche’s in particular, including the 911?
I know why turbos themselves have faults, they have the lag issue, but what I find confusing as a Porsche newbie observer is one of the most iconic and saught after Porkers had a turbo, the 911 turbo? What I find odd is people enthuse about the 911 turbo yet there’s disdain for Porsche’s with turbos? Confused much
Any beardies please don’t shoot my balls off
To be honest - a lot of it is irrational repetition and popularism and for some based in history or nostalgia..... Porsche have historically been leaders in turbocharging.. they only started having real racing success when they went turbo charged in their entrants at the time. I know why turbos themselves have faults, they have the lag issue, but what I find confusing as a Porsche newbie observer is one of the most iconic and saught after Porkers had a turbo, the 911 turbo? What I find odd is people enthuse about the 911 turbo yet there’s disdain for Porsche’s with turbos? Confused much
Any beardies please don’t shoot my balls off
Obviously characteristics of FI are different to NA. With a general move to FI the fear is that all power units become the same in character..homogeneous .. and the uniqueness, responsiveness, sharpness and aural theatre of NA may be lost.
That said - there is A LOT of history with NA for Porsche and they are seen as one of the last bastions - so everyone will do as much as they can to keep the pressure on them to keep these engines around.
Those new to the brand won't really mind/care as much.... but this is a core element for brand enthusiasts.
Yep, two reasons for the issue with the 718:
1. The 981 Cayman/Boxster was the last sort-of-affordable/readily available/naturally aspirated/large CC engine sports car. Losing it, along with the 991.1 911 was losing the last of its kind.
2. Unlike the classic 911 Turbo models, the Cayman/Boxster gained a turbo but lost 2 cylinders as the reason for the turbo was not for more power, but to satisfy the need to downsize the engine (emissions, regulations etc). The 991.2 911 downsized too, but at least it kept its flat six.
This is why, for many, it's a real tragedy that the 718 is a 4-pot.
1. The 981 Cayman/Boxster was the last sort-of-affordable/readily available/naturally aspirated/large CC engine sports car. Losing it, along with the 991.1 911 was losing the last of its kind.
2. Unlike the classic 911 Turbo models, the Cayman/Boxster gained a turbo but lost 2 cylinders as the reason for the turbo was not for more power, but to satisfy the need to downsize the engine (emissions, regulations etc). The 991.2 911 downsized too, but at least it kept its flat six.
This is why, for many, it's a real tragedy that the 718 is a 4-pot.
Buggyjam said:
I read a lot of the horror that the 718 Cayman is a 4 pot with a turbo. I get that 4 cylinders and the small engine is not attractive on the face of it (I’ve a 6 cyl one myself), but I’m curious about this hatred of turbos in Porsche’s in particular, including the 911?
I know why turbos themselves have faults, they have the lag issue, but what I find confusing as a Porsche newbie observer is one of the most iconic and saught after Porkers had a turbo, the 911 turbo? What I find odd is people enthuse about the 911 turbo yet there’s disdain for Porsche’s with turbos? Confused much
Any beardies please don’t shoot my balls off
For me it is all about throttle response and linear delivery of power. I was out driving my NA 997 at the weekend. Really rubbish conditions - wet, very cold, ice. I had a great time, driving pretty quickly without having to worry about the back-end swinging out unexpectedly (by comparison I have a M135i which is a nightmare in the same conditions). [then went out Sunday on my GSXR 750 - same story]I know why turbos themselves have faults, they have the lag issue, but what I find confusing as a Porsche newbie observer is one of the most iconic and saught after Porkers had a turbo, the 911 turbo? What I find odd is people enthuse about the 911 turbo yet there’s disdain for Porsche’s with turbos? Confused much
Any beardies please don’t shoot my balls off
Sound is the other issue. To me NA and having to rev the engine to get power just sounds so much better.
Ah cheers, make sense now. So given the love of the NA Porsche’s, was the 911 Turbo always seen as a bit of a cheeky upstart? A bit marmite?
So the 718 turbo isn’t seen as a lush benefit at all, just making up for losses in the cylinder departments. I can see the logic now. I personally do not like the sound of the engine at all. A 2 litre engine sounds too close to a “normal” car. 4 cylinders is just, well, I sold my Peugeot and that had 4 cylinders. But apparently performance is damn good and people like it and fair play to them. I myself think the 911 991 looks lovely (I’ll never own one) but no idea what they’re like.
With all this push I read they’re even thinking of dropping the Cayman from the lineup
. What a rubbish swan song for something good, 4 cyl rep mobile sized engine to extinction.
So the 718 turbo isn’t seen as a lush benefit at all, just making up for losses in the cylinder departments. I can see the logic now. I personally do not like the sound of the engine at all. A 2 litre engine sounds too close to a “normal” car. 4 cylinders is just, well, I sold my Peugeot and that had 4 cylinders. But apparently performance is damn good and people like it and fair play to them. I myself think the 911 991 looks lovely (I’ll never own one) but no idea what they’re like.
With all this push I read they’re even thinking of dropping the Cayman from the lineup
. What a rubbish swan song for something good, 4 cyl rep mobile sized engine to extinction. Buggyjam said:
With all this push I read they’re even thinking of dropping the Cayman from the lineup . What a rubbish swan song for something good, 4 cyl rep mobile sized engine to extinction.
What a strange statement? The 718 Cayman is an amazing car , its quicker, handles better than ever just doesnt sound the same. Still one of the best sports cars out there. . What a rubbish swan song for something good, 4 cyl rep mobile sized engine to extinction. tedblog said:
What a strange statement? The 718 Cayman is an amazing car , its quicker, handles better than ever just doesnt sound the same. Still one of the best sports cars out there.
You miss the point entirely I’m afraid!My wife’s Golf R kills me, and most other things, in the wet, but I would not even contemplate losing my GTS for one, or a 718.....aka torquey hair dryer!!
tedblog said:
What a strange statement? The 718 Cayman is an amazing car , its quicker, handles better than ever just doesnt sound the same. Still one of the best sports cars out there.
Well yes I concede it is strange if based on hard facts. But my enjoyment isn’t based on facts.I’ve owned fastish 4 cyl 2 litre saloon cars. Porsche’s to me, were always a cut above - larger engines and decent amount of cylinders. A 4 cyl 2.0 litre engine just doesn’t do it for me, sorry it’s just my opinion of what I like
. I’m open minded I maybe turned if I had one but on the face it holds less interest.
Jazzer said:
You miss the point entirely I’m afraid!
My wife’s Golf R kills me, and most other things, in the wet, but I would not even contemplate losing my GTS for one, or a 718.....aka torquey hair dryer!!
Not missing the point at all? To new people to the brand the 718 is great and thats what selling cars is all about , Porsche is a big seller now over 300,000 unit in 2017 , sorry but the guy who wants to keep his GTS is fine but thats not what Porsche want , at a reputed £14k profit on every car they sold in 2016 .My wife’s Golf R kills me, and most other things, in the wet, but I would not even contemplate losing my GTS for one, or a 718.....aka torquey hair dryer!!
Torquey hair dryer or not it still comes out as a the top sportscar for the price, yes others do 4 cylinder turbo's but they dont say Porsche on them and that makes a difference.
Selling so many cars has sort have been their downfall as they have had to get emmisions down across the range.
Edited by tedblog on Monday 12th February 21:28
tedblog said:
Prefect response "your enjoyment" might not be someone else's.
Some people like sound, some like speed, some like the latest tech.
Not sure where you’re running with this bone. It was just my opinion of the final Cayman. Never said anything about others opinions being less valid. Some people like sound, some like speed, some like the latest tech.
williamp said:
If porsche can win le mans with a 2 litre 4 cylinder engine three years in a row....
Ha, I nearly typed on that post something about someone will be along pointing out some Porsche with 4 cyl 2 litre engines but I didn’t bother . Well, it’s like this to me. That is prob the case. And that arguable does make me ignorant to Porsche’s history. But when I was a kid it wasn’t a 2 litre 4 cyl car on that poster. No it was a Porsche with a nice big engine and that distinctive noise ( I imagined, my poster didn’t have sound effects), To me, that’s part of the experience. I make no apologies for it. As I’ve said before, I’m probably a Porsche heathen and going straight to Porsche hell
.Edited by Buggyjam on Monday 12th February 21:50
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