Can a £10k increase for 997 GT3 be justified?
Discussion
Autocar reports today that the 997 GT3 is rumoured to cost £80k plus it would use the 3.8 Carrera S engine pushing out 400bhp. I feel if Porsche press on with using the 3.8 as opposed to the tried and trusted GT1 engine then I'd be very dissapointed. But most of all if it does cost £80k I think that may be too much.
I must say i am concerned about this 3.8 engine.
I have £5k deposit for a GT3 RS (if they ever build one).
Having said this, even the mighty GT1 engine can't live forever, im gonna wait to see what the mods are to the engine before i pass my judgement.
Porsche are not stupid, and i'm sure they know their strenghts, and won't this engine be running in a cup series at some time soon ??, if so, it will have to be bomb proof for it, and the pretty much same lump will be in the road car.
G.
I have £5k deposit for a GT3 RS (if they ever build one).
Having said this, even the mighty GT1 engine can't live forever, im gonna wait to see what the mods are to the engine before i pass my judgement.
Porsche are not stupid, and i'm sure they know their strenghts, and won't this engine be running in a cup series at some time soon ??, if so, it will have to be bomb proof for it, and the pretty much same lump will be in the road car.
G.
It doesn't sound too far out to me...order a 997S with a few goodies on it and you are looking at low 70k's.
A couple of observations,,,Porsche is the most profitable car maker per unit.....look at the price of a 996TT & a Cayenne Turbo...to see where the profit is made,, Porsche obviously feels they can charge this price.
With the incredible number of 996 including TT & Gt3 hanging around unsold even after heavy depreciation, I really would not be suprised to see Porsche limit the number of specialist models sold, these are flagships that help sales of the whole range, less sales would help depreciation...less sales can be bought about by putting the price up....and Porsche makes even more of a profit per unit even though they sell less cars...happy days!
A couple of observations,,,Porsche is the most profitable car maker per unit.....look at the price of a 996TT & a Cayenne Turbo...to see where the profit is made,, Porsche obviously feels they can charge this price.
With the incredible number of 996 including TT & Gt3 hanging around unsold even after heavy depreciation, I really would not be suprised to see Porsche limit the number of specialist models sold, these are flagships that help sales of the whole range, less sales would help depreciation...less sales can be bought about by putting the price up....and Porsche makes even more of a profit per unit even though they sell less cars...happy days!
Autocar know nothing. The only people who really know what the next GT3 and the price will be are Porsche themselves.
Lets have a look at one on Autocars Balls ups "The Boxter Couple CLub Sport will be 27k" Yeah right....
We just have to wait and see, I have an order spot it I want it.
Lets have a look at one on Autocars Balls ups "The Boxter Couple CLub Sport will be 27k" Yeah right....
We just have to wait and see, I have an order spot it I want it.
£80k for a new improved and limited production GT3 nothing new there, the MK1 was c£80k in 1999/2000 albeit a hand assembled car from Weissach.
The MK2 was built in volumes on the normal production line so economies were poss passed on as a result.
If the 997 GT3 returns to limited build quantities and non series production the £80k is prob about right.
Cheers
Allan
The MK2 was built in volumes on the normal production line so economies were poss passed on as a result.
If the 997 GT3 returns to limited build quantities and non series production the £80k is prob about right.
Cheers
Allan
glenn mcmenamin said:
I must say i am concerned about this 3.8 engine.
I have £5k deposit for a GT3 RS (if they ever build one).
...I feel you're right to be concerned. I can't believe that Porsche are planning to put such a compromised engine in the new GT3. Quite a few 997 owners on Rennlist have already had rear main seal leaks and other engine issues.
Methinks the current GT3 and GT3RS are likely to achieve classic status once 997 GT3 engine issues start to materialise. Teams that may use the 997 GT3 for racing can afford to rebuild/repair after every race if need be.
I have heard on good authority (Olaf Manthey at Manthey Racing) that the 997 GT3 road car will certainly use the existing GT1 derived engine.
Autocar have consistently got this wrong, whilst other mags correctly suggest the existing engine will be tuned to give c. 400bhp. This level of tune is easy to achieve - most RSs have this out of the box, and Manthey's map liberates up to 430hp - and I've been running my engine in this state of tune for 16,000 miles (including a lot of time at the Ring and on track) with no problems to date.
Manthey have also now proven, at least in racing context, that the 3.6 litre engine can be increased in size to 3.9 litres and run reliably - Olaf's own car for the VLN series and 24 Nurburgring race runs this engine which pushes out well over 500 hp. This suggests an increase in engine size could be a longer term option if more power were needed (but personally I'd rather Porsche keep focusing on light weight versions - power is not the issue!).
A semi-dry sumped 3.8 litre engine from the Carrera S would never stand up to the track work that the existing engine does (as good as the 3.8l engine is), and I can't see (perhaps I just hope!) that Porsche would be so cynical as to downgrade one of the world's finest driver's cars in this fashion and stop using possibly the most robust, not to mention outstanding, production engines in the world.
Autocar have consistently got this wrong, whilst other mags correctly suggest the existing engine will be tuned to give c. 400bhp. This level of tune is easy to achieve - most RSs have this out of the box, and Manthey's map liberates up to 430hp - and I've been running my engine in this state of tune for 16,000 miles (including a lot of time at the Ring and on track) with no problems to date.
Manthey have also now proven, at least in racing context, that the 3.6 litre engine can be increased in size to 3.9 litres and run reliably - Olaf's own car for the VLN series and 24 Nurburgring race runs this engine which pushes out well over 500 hp. This suggests an increase in engine size could be a longer term option if more power were needed (but personally I'd rather Porsche keep focusing on light weight versions - power is not the issue!).
A semi-dry sumped 3.8 litre engine from the Carrera S would never stand up to the track work that the existing engine does (as good as the 3.8l engine is), and I can't see (perhaps I just hope!) that Porsche would be so cynical as to downgrade one of the world's finest driver's cars in this fashion and stop using possibly the most robust, not to mention outstanding, production engines in the world.
lavaman said:
If Porsche does indeed go ahead with the 3.8 then as already mentioned the current 996 GT3 + RS will achieve cult status and as you can bag yourself a newish GT3 for the mid/low £60k then it's going to be cracking value against the 997 version.
I've just bagged an 03 GT3, 5k, Basalt Black/Black Buckets..from OPC, for just under £62k, my residuals are looking good.
clubsport said:
With the incredible number of 996 including TT & Gt3 hanging around unsold even after heavy depreciation, I really would not be suprised to see Porsche limit the number of specialist models sold, these are flagships that help sales of the whole range, less sales would help depreciation...less sales can be bought about by putting the price up....and Porsche makes even more of a profit per unit even though they sell less cars...happy days!
Are they hanging around because the price isn't right though? Theres definitely a reluctance amongst most car owners to come to terms with reality when it comes to depreciation. Not least because dealers have such wide spreads that theres always a degree of heart attack knowing that they are offering you 8k less than they plan to retail at.
I'm assuming most private car sales are because the owner didn't like the trade in. Thats the only reason I do it.
I am currently considering a GT3, but knowing how long some of them are taking to shift, it seems that I'll be taking an immediate hit if I buy one at the current advertised prices - the markets so illiquid that it must be due an adjustment. The GT3 from an OPC at 62 mentioned above just highlights it as thats better than I've seen private!
>> Edited by DanH on Wednesday 27th April 17:44
GT3 Rob said:
.. The GT3 from an OPC at 62 mentioned above just highlights it as thats better than I've seen private!
>> Edited by DanH on Wednesday 27th April 17:44
My car was up at £68k.. I bid £61,750 over phone and got it.
>> Edited by GT3 Rob on Wednesday 27th April 17:59
Seize the day and all that
Nice work though! Were you a cash buyer or trade in?if you don't mind me asking?
GT3 Rob said:
.. The GT3 from an OPC at 62 mentioned above just highlights it as thats better than I've seen private!
>> Edited by DanH on Wednesday 27th April 17:44
My car was up at £68k.. I bid £61,750 over phone and got it.
>> Edited by GT3 Rob on Wednesday 27th April 17:59
Thats a good reduction - How?
superlightr said:
DanH said:
.. The GT3 from an OPC at 62 mentioned above just highlights it as thats better than I've seen private!
>> Edited by DanH on Wednesday 27th April 17:44
My car was up at £68k.. I bid £61,750 over phone and got it.
>> Edited by GT3 Rob on Wednesday 27th April 17:59
Thats a good reduction - How?
Does it reflect the slightly odd gap in prices between mk1 and mk2s? Privately mk1s are 45-52ish, but then theres nothing mk2 private for less than 60.
I always feel a bit reluctant to discuss things like this on a car forum as I don't want to get owners backs up and get accused of talking down residuals.
DanH said:
DanH said:
.. The GT3 from an OPC at 62 mentioned above just highlights it as thats better than I've seen private!
>> Edited by DanH on Wednesday 27th April 17:44
My car was up at £68k.. I bid £61,750 over phone and got it.
>> Edited by GT3 Rob on Wednesday 27th April 17:59
Seize the day and all that
Nice work though! Were you a cash buyer or trade in?if you don't mind me asking?
I was a private buyer, the OPC dealer had 2 03 GT3s and a new one just registered.. the 2 03 ones were both up at £68k, one red, one black.. I managed to haggle over phone..(dealer was 200 miles from me) and got car.(black one with black buckets) for £61,750.. they also did free 2nd year service and replaced front discs and pads..
Car is absolutely stunning and best colour combo..IMHO.
www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75807
Cheers
Rob
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