Used 997 C2 PDK or New 718 Cayman PDK
Discussion
... that is basically my dilemmar. Both appeal for different reasons and I don't mind that the 718 may sound like a Subaru (I've had many).
Concerns are:
997 - Limited warranty 6-12 months from various well know indys. (718 would be 3 years). But then again, apparently no engine woes. But what about PDK issues (not heard of any trends)?
718 - This would be a new build and apparently from September all get Petrol Particulate Filters. Is that going to be a world of pain like DPFs (I won't be doing mega miles ... which was always a problem for DPFs).
What would have the best residuals over say 4 years? (assume 2010 997)
I guess this like comparing apples with oranges, but thoughts welcomed.
Concerns are:
997 - Limited warranty 6-12 months from various well know indys. (718 would be 3 years). But then again, apparently no engine woes. But what about PDK issues (not heard of any trends)?
718 - This would be a new build and apparently from September all get Petrol Particulate Filters. Is that going to be a world of pain like DPFs (I won't be doing mega miles ... which was always a problem for DPFs).
What would have the best residuals over say 4 years? (assume 2010 997)
I guess this like comparing apples with oranges, but thoughts welcomed.
Depends on what you're used to I guess. A lot of people here seem to have an issue with the F4T, but whether these complaints are actually valid I have yet to find out. If the sound doesn't bother you and you want a new car it would seem like a good option, a 997 might require a bit of maintenance.
Me - 981 PDK all the way
Me - 981 PDK all the way
These are very different cars. I have a 981s pdk and a 1998 996 manual with no TC. As you say the newer car has a 3 year warranty and this is a big plus if you're going to use and abuse the car. But if you're not going to use it much then it's less of a benefit. You mention residuals and I think the 997 should be a clear winner here but it's no slam dunk. I had a nearly new 997 c2s in 2005. Bought from Porsche wilmslow at full dealer mark up and then covered 20000 miles in 9 months and value dropped by £20000 when I tried to sell it back to the same dealer. So if you buy an expensive 997 it could gap more and potentially yes pdk might become a known problem if a couple of gearboxes disintegrate and the internet fills up with stories about it. A 997 pdk could be 10 years old now and plenty of bits could need replacing. My 996 service cost me 2200 3 months ago for a couple of pipes and tubes. Then the gearbox disintegrated and I replaced with another used box from German ebay which set me back another 4000 with fitting. My 996 should be depreciation proof but 6000 in repairs is a bit more than I expected. Has this helped - no idea. I think you need to test drive a 718. I know everyone talks about engine noise and na versus forced induction but there has been no mention of elec steering here which really does factor in heavily between these 2 and brake pedal feel too. The 997 should be the more tactile experience but some people just don't get the rear engine thing. Maybe you need both.
ATM said:
These are very different cars. I have a 981s pdk and a 1998 996 manual with no TC. As you say the newer car has a 3 year warranty and this is a big plus if you're going to use and abuse the car. But if you're not going to use it much then it's less of a benefit. You mention residuals and I think the 997 should be a clear winner here but it's no slam dunk. I had a nearly new 997 c2s in 2005. Bought from Porsche wilmslow at full dealer mark up and then covered 20000 miles in 9 months and value dropped by £20000 when I tried to sell it back to the same dealer. So if you buy an expensive 997 it could gap more and potentially yes pdk might become a known problem if a couple of gearboxes disintegrate and the internet fills up with stories about it. A 997 pdk could be 10 years old now and plenty of bits could need replacing. My 996 service cost me 2200 3 months ago for a couple of pipes and tubes. Then the gearbox disintegrated and I replaced with another used box from German ebay which set me back another 4000 with fitting. My 996 should be depreciation proof but 6000 in repairs is a bit more than I expected. Has this helped - no idea. I think you need to test drive a 718. I know everyone talks about engine noise and na versus forced induction but there has been no mention of elec steering here which really does factor in heavily between these 2 and brake pedal feel too. The 997 should be the more tactile experience but some people just don't get the rear engine thing. Maybe you need both.
All good points. I just sold my 996 ('99, Manual) and, whilst a great car, I too had some big bills over 3.5 years of ownership. So indeed, an 8-10 year old 997 has every potential for unforeseen expenditure. Whereas unforeseen expenditure on a 718 is basically nil, depreciation is going to be a factor (and a fact of life). The 718 sound is not an issue (though perhaps Haywood & Scott could help improve - my Forester sounds lovely). As for steering, well that is a consideration (my Golf R has taken me ages to bond with its EPS). I drove my neigbour's 981 Boxster S and that felt the best of any electrically assisted setup I've driven, though that had 20" wheels and various chassis options ... any 718 I order would be on 18" and sans Power Steering Plus (whatever that is!?).churchie2856 said:
All good points. I just sold my 996 ('99, Manual) and, whilst a great car, I too had some big bills over 3.5 years of ownership. So indeed, an 8-10 year old 997 has every potential for unforeseen expenditure. Whereas unforeseen expenditure on a 718 is basically nil, depreciation is going to be a factor (and a fact of life). The 718 sound is not an issue (though perhaps Haywood & Scott could help improve - my Forester sounds lovely). As for steering, well that is a consideration (my Golf R has taken me ages to bond with its EPS). I drove my neigbour's 981 Boxster S and that felt the best of any electrically assisted setup I've driven, though that had 20" wheels and various chassis options ... any 718 I order would be on 18" and sans Power Steering Plus (whatever that is!?).
So a base model 718 - surely the most prudent purchase. You need to try one clearly but I'm not sure how much you can deduce from a 20 minute test drive. It is a Porsche so should feel good. I've tried 18, 19 and 20 wheels on my 981. The bigger you go definitely transmits more information through to you but it's not all steering feel more general bum and chassis chatter. My 981 has the highest standard ride height too which must minimise some feel. How did you get on with the brake pedal in the 981? Going from a 996 I think the 997 will feel very similar and just a bit more grown up or detached - whatever your view. The 718 will be a wholesale change and frees you from the daily worry thinking what's that noise or clunk or fluid patch where I was parked.
If you've not driven a 718, I'd take one out as a starting point. You'll know straight away if the engine is for you or not. I don't think it sounds like, or is as good as, the old Impreza lumps. It's more like the GT-86/BRZ engine even though the 718 has turbos and the Toyabaru doesn't. It's a harsh, nasty little thing and I hate it although I did like the Imprezas I've been in.
YMMV though, so you need to take one out for a drive
YMMV though, so you need to take one out for a drive
benbuhagiar said:
997 PDK 100%.
Will hardly lose any money over 3 years.
Unless, as mentioned near the top, the car needs some expensive repairs and service. New heat shields, new radiators, coolant change, spark plugs.... soon mounts up, maybe destroying any benefit from the car's resale value.Will hardly lose any money over 3 years.
Tony1963 said:
Unless, as mentioned near the top, the car needs some expensive repairs and service. New heat shields, new radiators, coolant change, spark plugs.... soon mounts up, maybe destroying any benefit from the car's resale value.
I agree, whilst depreciation is minimal (relatively) the cost of each repair and the regular servicing can add up substantially.Why not buy from a Porsche dealership including a full 2 year warranty, which you can also extend? Of course the cost of services every 2 years won’t be included. I’m actually selling mine which has the balance of the warranty left, so maybe try and find a private sale car which includes the Porsche warranty which you can extend after it expires.
Always options but sadly Porsche ownership will never be cheap... trust me I have tried!
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