The 993 Diversified Market
Discussion
Hi,
I've been actively waiting and looking to buy a 993 for the last 12 months.
I find the market to be quite diverse from a pricing point of view.
I see several 993s with the same spec but up £35k apart. For example I have picked out 3 cars that are on PistonHeads now that have the same spec and mileage, all from dealerships and the prices vary from:
- £45k
- £62k
- £79k
There is not much difference in any of the variables and in fact the £79k car has more mileage and owners than the middle car.
It's hard to know what is good value for money, or to know when you are being ripped off.
Then at the same time, if I change the spec slightly it can go from £40k to £90k.
Any advice on figuring out what a sensible price is, would be much appreciated, but I guess almost impossible?
I've been actively waiting and looking to buy a 993 for the last 12 months.
I find the market to be quite diverse from a pricing point of view.
I see several 993s with the same spec but up £35k apart. For example I have picked out 3 cars that are on PistonHeads now that have the same spec and mileage, all from dealerships and the prices vary from:
- £45k
- £62k
- £79k
There is not much difference in any of the variables and in fact the £79k car has more mileage and owners than the middle car.
It's hard to know what is good value for money, or to know when you are being ripped off.
Then at the same time, if I change the spec slightly it can go from £40k to £90k.
Any advice on figuring out what a sensible price is, would be much appreciated, but I guess almost impossible?
Spec and mileage is only part of the picture.
These cars are nearly 25 years old now so you want a car where the previous owners have properly kept up to date with maintenance and yearly serving. In my experience these days it's not particularly cheap to run a 993 and keep it tip top.
Maybe that accounts for some of the spread. Or it could just be that some of those dealers are chancers.
These cars are nearly 25 years old now so you want a car where the previous owners have properly kept up to date with maintenance and yearly serving. In my experience these days it's not particularly cheap to run a 993 and keep it tip top.
Maybe that accounts for some of the spread. Or it could just be that some of those dealers are chancers.
Given sales from trader and private sales are never verified prices why don’t you look st the results from recent actual auction houses for classic cars (Pebble beach) etc they sell thousands of classic cars over a weekend.
Then look at what prices were achieved a year ago.
Then look at the volume of cars for sale now - look at how long they have been for sale
As far as I can tell it’s not a fast moving market anymore and it’s much more about buying the car you want vs just buy any xyz car quickly as it’s rocketing in price.
Look out for the impact of China in decline ditto EU ditto impact of Brexit and other uncertainties. These weigh heavily on prices. Prices to see no longer achievable for average joe so a narrower market.
Buy a good one in the spec you like in the condition your happy with and enjoy. Don’t consider “appreciation” as those days are more than likely over and it’s possibly more akin to a declining market but not as steep as buying new cars.
Cars are for enjoying not trying to make a few £
Then look at what prices were achieved a year ago.
Then look at the volume of cars for sale now - look at how long they have been for sale
As far as I can tell it’s not a fast moving market anymore and it’s much more about buying the car you want vs just buy any xyz car quickly as it’s rocketing in price.
Look out for the impact of China in decline ditto EU ditto impact of Brexit and other uncertainties. These weigh heavily on prices. Prices to see no longer achievable for average joe so a narrower market.
Buy a good one in the spec you like in the condition your happy with and enjoy. Don’t consider “appreciation” as those days are more than likely over and it’s possibly more akin to a declining market but not as steep as buying new cars.
Cars are for enjoying not trying to make a few £
You need to start going out and viewing cars. When I bought me 993 it was barely a young-timer at 12 or 13 years old, the variations in quality back then were huge with little seemingly making an impact in "asking prices".
Another 9 or 10 years use can only have exasperated the fact.
Not everyone can of course spend numerous weekends travelling the country crawling underneath old cars (nor have spouses that are prepared to follow) and for those, a backed up expensive car from a recognised specialist is perhaps prudent buy. The trusted specialists who add that value are pretty sparse I'd say however.
Another 9 or 10 years use can only have exasperated the fact.
Not everyone can of course spend numerous weekends travelling the country crawling underneath old cars (nor have spouses that are prepared to follow) and for those, a backed up expensive car from a recognised specialist is perhaps prudent buy. The trusted specialists who add that value are pretty sparse I'd say however.
As mentioned above, the key factor in shortlisting a car for me would be recent spend. If you haven't seen invoices for several thousand over basic servicing, it'll be an indicator of what's in store. I reckon I've put £10k into my car over basic services in the 6 years I've had it. Bid accordingly depending on what's provided in terms of information.
For me i really didn’t want to buy a car that I bought and then had to spend £5k -£10k putting right.
Something that had bills ( as well as a stamped book) would be my preference.
There is one in the classifieds that’s great value with receipts pretty much back to day one that went on a couple of days ago. And a recent spend of £7k
Phib
Something that had bills ( as well as a stamped book) would be my preference.
There is one in the classifieds that’s great value with receipts pretty much back to day one that went on a couple of days ago. And a recent spend of £7k
Phib
Welshbeef said:
Given sales from trader and private sales are never verified prices why don’t you look st the results from recent actual auction houses for classic cars (Pebble beach) etc they sell thousands of classic cars over a weekend.
Is a high end USA auction relevant to a UK buyer ?And how many 993s go through Pebble Beach ,guessing not many ?
Thanks all, much appreciated.
@coolbeans - yes this is in addition to the other car
I’ve sold 2 of my main cars and have planned on replacing one of them with a 993 / 964 but I find the market incredibly hard to read.
I’m not buying in the hope of appreciation as it is a car I would like to just keep, but at the same time I don’t want to pay £30k over the price.
@coolbeans - yes this is in addition to the other car
I’ve sold 2 of my main cars and have planned on replacing one of them with a 993 / 964 but I find the market incredibly hard to read.
I’m not buying in the hope of appreciation as it is a car I would like to just keep, but at the same time I don’t want to pay £30k over the price.
I might suggest that now is not the time to buy then.
There is a huge amount of uncertainty regarding all financial markets for the next six months minimum and it looks like people are starting to get jumpy to me.
I posted on another thread, the PTS GT3mk1 car went through a dealer auction recently and failed to sell with bids stopping at £40k.
In my mind that car is as bankable as it can get, one off (nice) colour, good spec, colour etc and it would presumably be retailing at anywhere between £60-70k.
So the trade are only bidding with their own money at around 60% of retail? That raises my eyebrows.
I suspect the market won’t tank as a massive proportion of cars for sale are simply sale or return but if you got desperate and needed out-you’re going to lose your shirt taking a cash bid from a dealer at the moment.
There is a huge amount of uncertainty regarding all financial markets for the next six months minimum and it looks like people are starting to get jumpy to me.
I posted on another thread, the PTS GT3mk1 car went through a dealer auction recently and failed to sell with bids stopping at £40k.
In my mind that car is as bankable as it can get, one off (nice) colour, good spec, colour etc and it would presumably be retailing at anywhere between £60-70k.
So the trade are only bidding with their own money at around 60% of retail? That raises my eyebrows.
I suspect the market won’t tank as a massive proportion of cars for sale are simply sale or return but if you got desperate and needed out-you’re going to lose your shirt taking a cash bid from a dealer at the moment.
If you don’t want to “overpay”, buy privately, from an enthusiast, using a reputable Porsche indie for the PPI, and make sure the car has had between £1,500-£2,000 spent on it per annum since new, supported by receipts not stamps.
If you deviate form the above, you run the risk of overpaying at the outset or later on down the line.
If you deviate form the above, you run the risk of overpaying at the outset or later on down the line.
Thanks all.
It’s also hard to digest that the prices are purely inflated because of supply and demand, and not necessarily because the car / model itself is worth that.
For example, the next generation model after the 993 is 1/4 of the price and on most cases, the next generation usually surpasses the previous. Let’s not start the air cooled debate or if the next generation is actually better lol :-)
It’s also hard to digest that the prices are purely inflated because of supply and demand, and not necessarily because the car / model itself is worth that.
For example, the next generation model after the 993 is 1/4 of the price and on most cases, the next generation usually surpasses the previous. Let’s not start the air cooled debate or if the next generation is actually better lol :-)
nickpan said:
If you don’t want to “overpay”, buy privately, from an enthusiast, using a reputable Porsche indie for the PPI, and make sure the car has had between £1,500-£2,000 spent on it per annum since new, supported by receipts not stamps.
If you deviate form the above, you run the risk of overpaying at the outset or later on down the line.
£1.5-2k a year on servicing since new? Oil change filters discs and pads every 30-60k.If you deviate form the above, you run the risk of overpaying at the outset or later on down the line.
How can you spend on average £1.5-2k a year - what’s being changed/fixed?
Welshbeef said:
£1.5-2k a year on servicing since new? Oil change filters discs and pads every 30-60k.
How can you spend on average £1.5-2k a year - what’s being changed/fixed?
Door check straps How can you spend on average £1.5-2k a year - what’s being changed/fixed?
Cam cover gaskets
Suspension refresh
Top mounts
Air vent motors
Heat exchangers
Clutch
Flywheel
Exhaust
Disks x2
Pads x3
Wheel refurb
Ac pump
Wheel bearings
Paint (stone chips)
New oil lines
Interior reconised
Brake master cyclinder
New alarm fobs
Dust bellows
Engine wiring harness
HT leads
Induction clean out
Anti roll bar links
Etc etc
Etc etc
Phib
Edited by phib on Friday 8th February 20:57
Well an indie service is circa £600-1000 for a 993 (prices JZM) so a few small jobs will easily eat £500-1000.
On an expensive year with a clutch, gasket, suspension or bodywork it could be alot more.
I'd say £1.5_2k is good advice.
You can be lucky or spend lessif you drive less but using an aircooled 911 costs.
If it doesn't it usually costs the next owner.
On an expensive year with a clutch, gasket, suspension or bodywork it could be alot more.
I'd say £1.5_2k is good advice.
You can be lucky or spend lessif you drive less but using an aircooled 911 costs.
If it doesn't it usually costs the next owner.
I've spent £12.5k on mine NOT including yearly servicing in less than 3 years of ownership. I bought a car with some of the big ticket items already done like door check straps yet I also knew there would be more work to carry out to get it just how I wanted.
The big ticket items (respected independent, not OPC):
£4700 - new shocks (pss10 adjustable + fitting)
£1400 - steering rack refurb (leaking) and some other bits and pieces
£425 new windscreen + fitting
£3300 bodywork various
£1000 new engine mounts + various other suspension bits replaced
The big ticket items (respected independent, not OPC):
£4700 - new shocks (pss10 adjustable + fitting)
£1400 - steering rack refurb (leaking) and some other bits and pieces
£425 new windscreen + fitting
£3300 bodywork various
£1000 new engine mounts + various other suspension bits replaced
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff