996tt vs M3 CSL
Discussion
Hi guys.
Have been looking to get 'that fantasy car' for the last few months.
Test drove a Sagaris and Noble, though both have strengths, build quality/practicality put me off.
The 996tt has always been there in the back(and front!) of my mind.
Recently alot of people have been raving about the M3 CSL. Its speed, throttle response, balance, noise and track ability to be precise.
Aswell as these things it has the following potential advantages for me
1) £40k buys one with 2 years warranty remaining
2)It can carry my shopping and luggage
Can anyone convince me that the 996tt is that much better than a CSL that its worth the extra £10k for an older car and the unpracticality
Have been looking to get 'that fantasy car' for the last few months.
Test drove a Sagaris and Noble, though both have strengths, build quality/practicality put me off.
The 996tt has always been there in the back(and front!) of my mind.
Recently alot of people have been raving about the M3 CSL. Its speed, throttle response, balance, noise and track ability to be precise.
Aswell as these things it has the following potential advantages for me
1) £40k buys one with 2 years warranty remaining
2)It can carry my shopping and luggage
Can anyone convince me that the 996tt is that much better than a CSL that its worth the extra £10k for an older car and the unpracticality
Hi Lee,
In a straight line I have no doubt you are right. I had a quick look through your previous posts and I note that you were amazed how well GT3s cornered better/faster than your tt. Many compare the CSL to the GT3 in its cornering ability/speed. What do you think?
D'ont have kids at present but it would be useful to carry shopping/luggage
Deep
In a straight line I have no doubt you are right. I had a quick look through your previous posts and I note that you were amazed how well GT3s cornered better/faster than your tt. Many compare the CSL to the GT3 in its cornering ability/speed. What do you think?
D'ont have kids at present but it would be useful to carry shopping/luggage
Deep
Depends if you're gonna track it much aswell.
The turbo will always be quicker in real world driving, as that is what is designed for.
On track though, and in good hands, i would say the CSL would be significantly quicker than definately a standard turbo, and an X50 in all but long straights, but ultimatley lap quicker.
G.
The turbo will always be quicker in real world driving, as that is what is designed for.
On track though, and in good hands, i would say the CSL would be significantly quicker than definately a standard turbo, and an X50 in all but long straights, but ultimatley lap quicker.
G.
Deep,
I only do around 4 track days per year, but do around 8k road miles which is where most of my smiles come from, but my last track day has left me wanting a GT3 but as a second car. I cant justify selling the tt as i enjoy driving it weekly on the roads.(Have some good lanes near me where 140+ is a bit of an adrenalin rush)and i can still take the kids out in it to the cinema etc..
The problem is as Glenn said they are totaly different cars, so if you only do a few road miles per year get the CSl, if you do plenty of road miles then go for the tt.
I only do around 4 track days per year, but do around 8k road miles which is where most of my smiles come from, but my last track day has left me wanting a GT3 but as a second car. I cant justify selling the tt as i enjoy driving it weekly on the roads.(Have some good lanes near me where 140+ is a bit of an adrenalin rush)and i can still take the kids out in it to the cinema etc..
The problem is as Glenn said they are totaly different cars, so if you only do a few road miles per year get the CSl, if you do plenty of road miles then go for the tt.
Lee I get where you're coming from. The complicating factor is that though the CSL maybe more track focused and the tt road focused its actually the CSL which is more practical. Its usually the other way round!!
Life is so hard when you have to choose between a 996tt and a CSL
Thanks for all your input so far
Btw do you have a manual or tip?
Life is so hard when you have to choose between a 996tt and a CSL
Thanks for all your input so far
Btw do you have a manual or tip?
I have a GT3 my brother has a CSL.
In a straight line, he has trouble getting his power down, but once up and running up until 140ish he has just about the measure of me, but then aero sets in and he drops off a bit. Significantly it doesn't 'feel' as fast as it is. The TT would definately be faster, but not by so much as you would imagine, the X50 more so though.
Round the track, we are drivers of broadly equal skill. There we are pretty much equal.
On road he has 4 seats and a big boot. Personally, for my own taste I would take one over the TT. Luckily I have anothe car to take the more mundane elements of my life on. But if I had to have just one, CSL for me.
2p from me.
In a straight line, he has trouble getting his power down, but once up and running up until 140ish he has just about the measure of me, but then aero sets in and he drops off a bit. Significantly it doesn't 'feel' as fast as it is. The TT would definately be faster, but not by so much as you would imagine, the X50 more so though.
Round the track, we are drivers of broadly equal skill. There we are pretty much equal.
On road he has 4 seats and a big boot. Personally, for my own taste I would take one over the TT. Luckily I have anothe car to take the more mundane elements of my life on. But if I had to have just one, CSL for me.
2p from me.
I can't believe no one has said this yet, but:
Why get a TT or a CSL when £50k will buy you a beautiful Mk1 GT3 which will have the measure of both the TT and the CSL when you have to combine road with track?
I can't imagine a GT3 getting left too far behind a TT on the road, and i'm sure it'd hold its head up high against any CSL on track.
And with no back seat you have lots of luggage space!
VS
Why get a TT or a CSL when £50k will buy you a beautiful Mk1 GT3 which will have the measure of both the TT and the CSL when you have to combine road with track?
I can't imagine a GT3 getting left too far behind a TT on the road, and i'm sure it'd hold its head up high against any CSL on track.
And with no back seat you have lots of luggage space!
VS
Pete, I just thought a GT3 would be too compromised for 95% road use. A tt because it is more set up for fast road use(and I love the look!) and CSL because it has the benefit of boot/seats.
For me the GT3 gives me neither. Its a great car, and if I could afford two nice cars the GT3 would be one
So really for a one car person the tt or the CSL makes more sense(I think!)
For me the GT3 gives me neither. Its a great car, and if I could afford two nice cars the GT3 would be one
So really for a one car person the tt or the CSL makes more sense(I think!)
There is no doubt that the tt is an awesome car. Probably one of the best cars on the road - but if you are going to go on track, then the CSL is the smarter choice. The CSL will out perform a tt on any track, its far lighter and better-balanced car. On the road it is quick and the noise is intoxicating. The CSL is more practical, looks very aggressive, yet you can park it places and not worry about it.
I test-drove a tt, and while I was very impressed, I preferred the CSL as it is the more focused car – each to their own.
If it was me and I could only have one car, I would go for the CSL. If I had the money I would have what Glenn has, a turbo cab and GT3. Also, the fact that you can buy a 1 year old CSL with 2 years warranty over a much older tt has to count for something.
The usual comparison is GT3 or CSL - I think you need to decide what you want the car for, if its purely road then the tt is the one to go for, but if you are doing track days you will get frustrated with the tt and which you were in a more focused track car as t urbo is!.
Incidentally I have just bought a GT3 to replace the CSL, which is phenomenal. The GT3 is not an everyday car, I will be buying something else - alas not a tt!
Good luck with your choice, I am sure you will be happy with either one.
Cheers,
Mark
>> Edited by Mark_H on Tuesday 14th June 15:32
I test-drove a tt, and while I was very impressed, I preferred the CSL as it is the more focused car – each to their own.
If it was me and I could only have one car, I would go for the CSL. If I had the money I would have what Glenn has, a turbo cab and GT3. Also, the fact that you can buy a 1 year old CSL with 2 years warranty over a much older tt has to count for something.
The usual comparison is GT3 or CSL - I think you need to decide what you want the car for, if its purely road then the tt is the one to go for, but if you are doing track days you will get frustrated with the tt and which you were in a more focused track car as t urbo is!.
Incidentally I have just bought a GT3 to replace the CSL, which is phenomenal. The GT3 is not an everyday car, I will be buying something else - alas not a tt!
Good luck with your choice, I am sure you will be happy with either one.
Cheers,
Mark
>> Edited by Mark_H on Tuesday 14th June 15:32
Have to aggree with Mark on this one.
I bought my CSL few weeks ago, with full AP brake conversion, uprated backbox. 8k miles. £39,000 Still has 2 years BMW Warrenty left, and I just had the bumper resprayed under warrenty. It's allot of car for the money.
I would love a GT3 but can't afford it yet, but it's certainly something I'll be looking at next year.
TT is a fine luxury road car, quicker than CSL in a line, but on track CSL will be the quicker car.
CSL Vs GT3 is more a direct comparison, so if you only plan on road use tt probably a nicer place to be, eating up motorway miles.
Either way, all are fine cars, you won't be disappointent which ever you choose.
>> Edited by NeVeTaS on Tuesday 14th June 10:20
I bought my CSL few weeks ago, with full AP brake conversion, uprated backbox. 8k miles. £39,000 Still has 2 years BMW Warrenty left, and I just had the bumper resprayed under warrenty. It's allot of car for the money.
I would love a GT3 but can't afford it yet, but it's certainly something I'll be looking at next year.
TT is a fine luxury road car, quicker than CSL in a line, but on track CSL will be the quicker car.
CSL Vs GT3 is more a direct comparison, so if you only plan on road use tt probably a nicer place to be, eating up motorway miles.
Either way, all are fine cars, you won't be disappointent which ever you choose.
>> Edited by NeVeTaS on Tuesday 14th June 10:20
I don't think the TT is that slow in the right hands.
996TT Nurburgring time = 7:56 on road tires
M3 CSL = 7:50 on Pilot Sport Cup Track tires
Since the track tires are worth an easy second per mile, that means the M3 CSL on similar tires is over 8 minutes at the ring (which is why the cups were fitted).
Ergo - fit the same tires to a TT that the CSL has and it will be quicker, fit some asjustable suspension to the TT and it will be quicker still (I find the TT a bit wallowy after my GT2).
Also you can increase the TT's power by 100bhp for a few grand, whereas the CSL is not worth modifying, as gains are minimal.
I still really like the TT and it's more practical, but lets compare like-for-like.......
996TT Nurburgring time = 7:56 on road tires
M3 CSL = 7:50 on Pilot Sport Cup Track tires
Since the track tires are worth an easy second per mile, that means the M3 CSL on similar tires is over 8 minutes at the ring (which is why the cups were fitted).
Ergo - fit the same tires to a TT that the CSL has and it will be quicker, fit some asjustable suspension to the TT and it will be quicker still (I find the TT a bit wallowy after my GT2).
Also you can increase the TT's power by 100bhp for a few grand, whereas the CSL is not worth modifying, as gains are minimal.
I still really like the TT and it's more practical, but lets compare like-for-like.......
True, but how heavy are they compared to each other? Its one thing if a TT can pull off a single lap and pull into the pits with its brakes on fire, quite another if it can keep doing it all day.
The ring also favours high powered cars as it has some very long straights.
My choice would be the CSL, a GT3 or a GT2
Deep said:
Can anyone convince me that the 996tt is that much better than a CSL that its worth the extra £10k for an older car and the unpracticality
Deep I'm no expert on TT prices but my CSL was £39k with full AP brakes and uprated backbox.
I've just clicked a sponsers site (from a link on this very page)
PORSCHE 911 (996) TURBO TIPTRONIC - Y 2001
£56,995
www.rsjsportscars.co.uk/vehicles/porsche_911_996_turbo_tiptronic_4.htm
I have no idea if thats roughly the going rate, but that's 18 Grand more than the CSL. Which could be spent on trackdays and driver training days etc etc.
Or Beer
I personally dont think the tt is worth 18 grand over a csl, 6 or 7 maybe I'd think about it.
Would have to be the GT3 for me, when I see them I don't look at the price, I just hand over the debit card
This is just the sort of input I need from guys who actually own/drive these cars rather than dream them.
£55k seems a reasonable price for an 01 with 30ishk miles. So about £15k more than an 03/04 CSL with 2 years warranty. Similar car from OPC with 1 year warranty will cost £58k so £18k difference. Plus CSL 'easy' to run as only car.
It looks like the CSL is edging ahead. £18k for me is alot, I'm not wealthy, just a car nut!! Keep reading about the poor steering feel of a CSL though.
Only problem is I've always dreamed of owning a Porsche turbo. Maybe I should buy the CSL now and then think about a 997 turbo in 3 years time
Deep
£55k seems a reasonable price for an 01 with 30ishk miles. So about £15k more than an 03/04 CSL with 2 years warranty. Similar car from OPC with 1 year warranty will cost £58k so £18k difference. Plus CSL 'easy' to run as only car.
It looks like the CSL is edging ahead. £18k for me is alot, I'm not wealthy, just a car nut!! Keep reading about the poor steering feel of a CSL though.
Only problem is I've always dreamed of owning a Porsche turbo. Maybe I should buy the CSL now and then think about a 997 turbo in 3 years time
Deep
Deep,
I drive a 993tt everyday with a 996 clubsport bucket seat. It's pratical enough for what i want and "does what it says on the tin".
If these are your final two choices i suggest you go out and drive a TT and then drive a CSL and your heart will very quickly justify the £18k, or it won't.
Life's too short, if your head says these are both reasonable choices, let your heart decide between them after a drive.
Personally i'd keep my 993tt if i won the lottery, so i'm all set
VS
What a choice eh? Life can be so hard
I drive a 993tt everyday with a 996 clubsport bucket seat. It's pratical enough for what i want and "does what it says on the tin".
If these are your final two choices i suggest you go out and drive a TT and then drive a CSL and your heart will very quickly justify the £18k, or it won't.
Life's too short, if your head says these are both reasonable choices, let your heart decide between them after a drive.
Personally i'd keep my 993tt if i won the lottery, so i'm all set
VS
What a choice eh? Life can be so hard
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