T.50 vs GT3 PCCB car in manual.

[Porsche911R]

OK so by now most must have watched the carfection You tube of the T.50 and if not why not ?

The main thing which stuck out from this was all the slagging of automation and it being a "drivers car"

If GM was on PH in this section he would be hated more than me :-) lol

Anyway that's not the point of this post, when he was talking about cars, I thought to my self the 991.2 Manual GT3 is really the closest thing today to what GM was saying.

Manual, high reving engine, normal ARB's, turning ESP off, real diff's, LED lights, working AC etc the only thing my car don;t have is a set of passive dampers, but Ohlins can sort that out for me.

the manual 991.2 GT3 is really the best car made ATM bar none, and as he said 50 % of the experience is the engine and noise and the GT3 also has those area's covered no issue.

Buy a PCCB shod GT3 in manual remove another 200lbs of weight (very possible) fit a set of Mag wheels and a set of TTX Ohlins you have driving perfection no ? and save £2.8 million ££££


RS WP owners really need to sell up stop posing and get back into driving a manual car IN G.M opinion not mine :-)

[jcosh]

Are you planning on selling your car soon David?

[luigisayshello]

Porsche911R said:

OK so by now most must have watched the carfection You tube of the T.50 and if not why not ?

The main thing which stuck out from this was all the slagging of automation and it being a "drivers car"

If GM was on PH in this section he would be hated more than me :-) lol

Anyway that's not the point of this post, when he was talking about cars, I thought to my self the 991.2 Manual GT3 is really the closest thing today to what GM was saying.

Manual, high reving engine, normal ARB's, turning ESP off, real diff's, LED lights, working AC etc the only thing my car don;t have is a set of passive dampers, but Ohlins can sort that out for me.

the manual 991.2 GT3 is really the best car made ATM bar none, and as he said 50 % of the experience is the engine and noise and the GT3 also has those area's covered no issue.

Buy a PCCB shod GT3 in manual remove another 200lbs of weight (very possible) fit a set of Mag wheels and a set of TTX Ohlins you have driving perfection no ? and save £2.8 million ££££


RS WP owners really need to sell up stop posing and get back into driving a manual car IN G.M opinion not mine :-)

It is not. In no way shape or form. If you got a carrera gt or a f50 or a zonda or even a f1 and continued the work on lighting them as the factories should had done, maybe, but today, the thing closest would be have to be a lotus.

[WonkeyDonkey]

Or maybe you just don't want your supercar to look like a squished vw beetle with a Halfords special wing

[bennno]

Porsche911R said:

OK so by now most must have watched the carfection You tube of the T.50 and if not why not ?

The main thing which stuck out from this was all the slagging of automation and it being a "drivers car"

If GM was on PH in this section he would be hated more than me :-) lol

Anyway that's not the point of this post, when he was talking about cars, I thought to my self the 991.2 Manual GT3 is really the closest thing today to what GM was saying.

Manual, high reving engine, normal ARB's, turning ESP off, real diff's, LED lights, working AC etc the only thing my car don;t have is a set of passive dampers, but Ohlins can sort that out for me.

the manual 991.2 GT3 is really the best car made ATM bar none, and as he said 50 % of the experience is the engine and noise and the GT3 also has those area's covered no issue.

Buy a PCCB shod GT3 in manual remove another 200lbs of weight (very possible) fit a set of Mag wheels and a set of TTX Ohlins you have driving perfection no ? and save £2.8 million ££££


RS WP owners really need to sell up stop posing and get back into driving a manual car IN G.M opinion not mine :-)

Nah, better describes a lotus.That said Gordon Murray drives an Alpine out of choice.

[v8ksn]

bennno said:

Nah, better describes a lotus.That said Gordon Murray drives an Alpine out of choice.

Yep! As for the 50% is the sound and noise statement he made, how does that correlate with a 4 pot auto in the Alpine he bought?

[Dr S]

If I were an oligarch I'd definitively get me a T.50 - no questions asked

[130R]

Not really apples to apples is it.

I suspect GM would say the GT3 is far, far too heavy and is missing half the engine.

[bennno]

Incredible to think he's made a full adult 3 seater, with a V12, and thats near as dammit the same dimensions as a 991 GT3, but weighs 40% less.

[CarreraLightweightRacing]

Most of this T.50 is simply fabulous, I say this as someone whos favourite car is the F1. To get a modern car with a V12, and room for three to travel in relative comfort to sub 1ton is a remarkable achievement. The fact it will also rev from idle to a 12,000rpm rev limit in 0.4sec is simply mind boggling. I do however find the rear fan somewhat awkward from an aesthetic perspective also the air intake under the headlights.
Apart from that what is not to like.

As great as the 991.2GT3 is, there are numerous driver orientated options available that offer great levels of driver interaction. But we are kidding ourselves to believe anything produced within the last 10years offers anything comparable to that which came pre-2010 in terms of raw driver focused interaction. Legislation has simply prevented it (CO2 emissions, noise, safety...).

One thing that does not compute with me though is how they will make any money from this endeavour, £236M if all 100 cars sell to cover the costs of building assembly plant, last 4 years of design teams, testing in all climates, crash test, legislation and certification process worldwide...

Great project and I really hope they get thoroughly driven as they deserve to. Hopefully Mr bean will get his hands on one as there are few that actually ever put any miles on the original F1.

[Porsche911R]

bennno said:

Nah, better describes a lotus. That said Gordon Murray drives an Alpine out of choice.

Lotus don't make a NA engine hi reving car and they are not light these days. Cayman R is lighter.

We will wait and see the 950 kg dry weight figure, I still think that's very hard to grasp with ABS, ESP, AC, HI -fi, PPF's etc.
he looked at every area and saved 800gramms on pedals, but the 3 seats weigh in at 14 kg's !! the drivers alone is 7Kg.

He has a long way to go and his TVR project did not go well. where is that car ?

[bennno]

Porsche911R said:

bennno said:

Nah, better describes a lotus. That said Gordon Murray drives an Alpine out of choice.

Lotus don't make a NA engine hi reving car and they are not light these days. Cayman R is lighter.

We will wait and see the 950 kg dry weight figure, I still think that's very hard to grasp with ABS, ESP, AC, HI -fi, PPF's etc.
he looked at every area and saved 800gramms on pedals, but the 3 seats weigh in at 14 kg's !! the drivers alone is 7Kg.

He has a long way to go and his TVR project did not go well. where is that car ?

He's only the designer in the TVR case, thats all about a bunch of charlatans making up nonsence about factory roof issues.

Lotus revs to 7200 and weighs in at 920kg, much closer in ethos to this new car than your notional 991 GT3.

[Porsche911R]

bennno said:

He's only the designer in the TVR case, thats all about a bunch of charlatans making up nonsence about factory roof issues.

Lotus revs to 7200 and weighs in at 920kg, much closer in ethos to this new car than your notional 991 GT3.

it HAS to be NA and have more than 4 pistons, and 7200rpm is not 9k the Elise is also not fast and has no torque.
My 987.2 Spyder is a much closer fit than a Lotus, that's why I still own it after 10 years and it's stop me buying a Lotus again as yet.

All being said great car still, I want one after owning 2 Lotus myself, a cup 250 is on my list to have again, but the GT3 991.2 engine is a masterpiece imo.

But like GM stated 50% of owning these cars is about the engine and then noise.

Flat Shifting and timing that shift at 8900rpm in a manual , what other car offers that ?

Also of note , there will be no heal and toe in the T.50 as it will have auto blip !!
So now fails the "ultimate drivers car" tag imo.

the hardest part of any driving is threashold braking while heal and toe, and the T50 will do that for you.
the GT3 you can turn it off :-) and you have to drive it yourself. Oh so close GM :-)

Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 5th August 12:47

[hunter 66]

For real driving need to remove the ABS , so you modulate the pedal and control the change in weather and tyre condition by adjusting the brake bias knob , whilst heeling and toeing

Edited by hunter 66 on Wednesday 5th August 15:42

[Steve Rance]

Great fun driving a car with no abs and adjustable bias. Love it

[Porsche911R]

ABS sucks on the track any way, any good driver will threshold brake to avoid ABS !!

I don't see ABS lights on my cars, so a moot point imo but not going into threashold braking for the 28th time on PH when no one does it !!

[v8ksn]

CarreraLightweightRacing said:

One thing that does not compute with me though is how they will make any money from this endeavour, £236M if all 100 cars sell to cover the costs of building assembly plant, last 4 years of design teams, testing in all climates, crash test, legislation and certification process worldwide...

Gordon could follow the McLaren plan, build the 720s then rebody it and call it the Senna, then rebody it and call it the Elva etc etc

[bennno]

v8ksn said:

CarreraLightweightRacing said:

One thing that does not compute with me though is how they will make any money from this endeavour, £236M if all 100 cars sell to cover the costs of building assembly plant, last 4 years of design teams, testing in all climates, crash test, legislation and certification process worldwide...

Gordon could follow the McLaren plan, build the 720s then rebody it and call it the Senna, then rebody it and call it the Elva etc etc

presumably it will go single vehicle approval route as per previous TVR's and the like to avoid the certification costs??

[Murph7355]

hunter 66 said:

For real driving need to remove the ABS , so you modulate the pedal and control the change in weather and tyre condition by adjusting the brake bias knob , whilst heeling and toeing

Real drivers also adjust the advance manually and have a butler pumping oil around the thing

All great cars.

Isn't GM only building 100? Wouldn't really matter what he did/didn't put in it, they'll all sell. And average 50 miles per annum.

F1 updated for the 21C. I think I prefer the styling of the F1 tbh.

[Terminator X]

v8ksn said:

bennno said:

Nah, better describes a lotus.That said Gordon Murray drives an Alpine out of choice.

Yep! As for the 50% is the sound and noise statement he made, how does that correlate with a 4 pot auto in the Alpine he bought?

I saw / heard one t'other day in London; it looked and sounded great tbf!

TX.