What price a late 993?
Discussion
Am looking to make a long overdue commitment to a 993 late summer time. I have been cruising the respective forums/net sources/ads etc over past 2-3 months looking to refine knowledge & target spec and form views on right price. On the spec side I think I am there but on price side I remain less that clear – hence would be grateful for any advice/views on offer. I appreciate it all comes down to a specific car in the end but looking to set guidelines here in order to know which cars make sense to chase and which not.
Target spec: 993 coupe, 96/97 varioform, good condition, full service history plus documentation, colour (blue, silver, grey , black), leather + ac + sun, 50-60k miles.
Against this I believe the below would be the reasonable target prices (cash) from limited research undertaken to date – grateful for any significant opinions to the contrary:
Private
As above £27-29k
C2S + C4S plus £4k on above
High mileage ie >90k minus 3k on above
Low mileage ie <=40k plus 3k on above
Dealer - plus £3-4k on above
LHD - minus £5k on above
Targa – plus £1.5k on above
fair or off the mark?
Target spec: 993 coupe, 96/97 varioform, good condition, full service history plus documentation, colour (blue, silver, grey , black), leather + ac + sun, 50-60k miles.
Against this I believe the below would be the reasonable target prices (cash) from limited research undertaken to date – grateful for any significant opinions to the contrary:
Private
As above £27-29k
C2S + C4S plus £4k on above
High mileage ie >90k minus 3k on above
Low mileage ie <=40k plus 3k on above
Dealer - plus £3-4k on above
LHD - minus £5k on above
Targa – plus £1.5k on above
fair or off the mark?
I've been watching the 993 market for a while (by which I mean a few months), and I think its really hard to say, though I'd guess those prices were on the high side.
Your preferred spec is a long way from the spec. I've been looking at (which is LHD, early, pre-vario, coupe essential though otherwise similar) but I get the feeling 993 prices are easing a little.
As a for instance this car:
<a href="www.finlaygorham.com/carDetail.cfm?id=282">www.finlaygorham.com/carDetail.cfm?id=282</a>
Trade, RHD is only 24K. High(-ish) miles but not excessive by any means and pre vario but otherwise to your spec..
Personally I'm just having difficulty finding a good car, so looking seriously at a personal import now.
Best of luck.
Dan
Edited to add: VS! This thread is for you!
Edited further to add: how about this: www.pistonheads.com/sales/43820.htm
>> Edited by danww on Friday 24th June 22:47
>> Edited by danww on Friday 24th June 22:50
Your preferred spec is a long way from the spec. I've been looking at (which is LHD, early, pre-vario, coupe essential though otherwise similar) but I get the feeling 993 prices are easing a little.
As a for instance this car:
<a href="www.finlaygorham.com/carDetail.cfm?id=282">www.finlaygorham.com/carDetail.cfm?id=282</a>
Trade, RHD is only 24K. High(-ish) miles but not excessive by any means and pre vario but otherwise to your spec..
Personally I'm just having difficulty finding a good car, so looking seriously at a personal import now.
Best of luck.
Dan
Edited to add: VS! This thread is for you!
Edited further to add: how about this: www.pistonheads.com/sales/43820.htm
>> Edited by danww on Friday 24th June 22:47
>> Edited by danww on Friday 24th June 22:50
You called?
Yep, i'd say you're in the right ball park, but you can see a car which has a clutch on the way out, needs new tyres and brakes soon, and is now in the cleanest condition being sold at the same money as something similar which does not need all that stuff and is in better condition. Brakes+tyres+clutch is well over £2k at best, closer to £3k at some places.
As has been said, the only way you can tell is to go out and look at lots. Some owners are more honest about their cars than others - the people that bought my C4S and my C2 both said that i was "too" honest, and the cars were better than my descriptions and better than others they'd seen.
I don't get my cars inspected, i spend the time my self. I took four hours over my C4S, and closer to five before buying my TT. It's amazing how small things can add up.
The thing is, if you have seen half a dozen cars already, when you see the right one you will know...
VS
Yep, i'd say you're in the right ball park, but you can see a car which has a clutch on the way out, needs new tyres and brakes soon, and is now in the cleanest condition being sold at the same money as something similar which does not need all that stuff and is in better condition. Brakes+tyres+clutch is well over £2k at best, closer to £3k at some places.
As has been said, the only way you can tell is to go out and look at lots. Some owners are more honest about their cars than others - the people that bought my C4S and my C2 both said that i was "too" honest, and the cars were better than my descriptions and better than others they'd seen.
I don't get my cars inspected, i spend the time my self. I took four hours over my C4S, and closer to five before buying my TT. It's amazing how small things can add up.
The thing is, if you have seen half a dozen cars already, when you see the right one you will know...
VS
There's some serious variability with 8-10 year old 993s... mileage isn't the belwether that you'd expect. I've had 40-odd, 70-odd and 90-odd kilomiles 993s and the 70-odd car felt the best. Stupidly, it was also the oldest (1994 car).
Maintenance is obviously a big deal, but my 40-odd car was sold by an OPC and had full-life OPC stamps and documentation.
I'd suggest that you drive a few, and concentrate on:
1) engine freeness i.e. how it revs from 2k to redline;
2) brakes, driving opinion followed by checking discs and pads (lips or scoring on discs);
3) interior is solid but check air con, 993 air con often fails and is normally around 0.5-1k to fix;
4) gearbox should not do *anything* that scares you. A new gearbox is *expensive*. G50 boxes are meant to be bulletproof but I've had one fail. Clutches feel tricky anyway on 993s (dual mass / rubber flywheels) but as per other cars, if it only takes up on the last 5 mm of clutch action, then it's been shimmed. Don't expect 60k miles on a 993 clutch unless you're babying it - it is possible but don't reject a good car because there's only 20k left on the clutch. Even an OPC charges less than a grand for a new clutch...
They're the best cars in the world but there will be people out there who have flogged them - try a few because the good ones shine like supernovas in the night sky. I am well known for buying the first car that I see, and after 3 immediate 993 purchases I know what a good one feels like
Honestly, I'd like the last 993 ever made, then tailored to my engine spec, but just because it was a late one doesn't necessarily mean it's the best. Try a few, and get a feel for it. My 1994 is orders of magnitude better than my last 1996, perhaps I had a bad one...
(quick edit: I'm in Kent, give me a shout, though mine's been messed about with
)
>> Edited by cyberface on Saturday 25th June 00:40
Maintenance is obviously a big deal, but my 40-odd car was sold by an OPC and had full-life OPC stamps and documentation.
I'd suggest that you drive a few, and concentrate on:
1) engine freeness i.e. how it revs from 2k to redline;
2) brakes, driving opinion followed by checking discs and pads (lips or scoring on discs);
3) interior is solid but check air con, 993 air con often fails and is normally around 0.5-1k to fix;
4) gearbox should not do *anything* that scares you. A new gearbox is *expensive*. G50 boxes are meant to be bulletproof but I've had one fail. Clutches feel tricky anyway on 993s (dual mass / rubber flywheels) but as per other cars, if it only takes up on the last 5 mm of clutch action, then it's been shimmed. Don't expect 60k miles on a 993 clutch unless you're babying it - it is possible but don't reject a good car because there's only 20k left on the clutch. Even an OPC charges less than a grand for a new clutch...
They're the best cars in the world but there will be people out there who have flogged them - try a few because the good ones shine like supernovas in the night sky. I am well known for buying the first car that I see, and after 3 immediate 993 purchases I know what a good one feels like
Honestly, I'd like the last 993 ever made, then tailored to my engine spec, but just because it was a late one doesn't necessarily mean it's the best. Try a few, and get a feel for it. My 1994 is orders of magnitude better than my last 1996, perhaps I had a bad one...
(quick edit: I'm in Kent, give me a shout, though mine's been messed about with
) >> Edited by cyberface on Saturday 25th June 00:40
If you were offering to show me round your own car - final paragrah ( messed with an all) - I would be very interetsed in doing this. I'm Sevenoaks, where are u based?
vg
vg
cyberface said:
There's some serious variability with 8-10 year old 993s... mileage isn't the belwether that you'd expect. I've had 40-odd, 70-odd and 90-odd kilomiles 993s and the 70-odd car felt the best. Stupidly, it was also the oldest (1994 car).
Maintenance is obviously a big deal, but my 40-odd car was sold by an OPC and had full-life OPC stamps and documentation.
I'd suggest that you drive a few, and concentrate on:
1) engine freeness i.e. how it revs from 2k to redline;
2) brakes, driving opinion followed by checking discs and pads (lips or scoring on discs);
3) interior is solid but check air con, 993 air con often fails and is normally around 0.5-1k to fix;
4) gearbox should not do *anything* that scares you. A new gearbox is *expensive*. G50 boxes are meant to be bulletproof but I've had one fail. Clutches feel tricky anyway on 993s (dual mass / rubber flywheels) but as per other cars, if it only takes up on the last 5 mm of clutch action, then it's been shimmed. Don't expect 60k miles on a 993 clutch unless you're babying it - it is possible but don't reject a good car because there's only 20k left on the clutch. Even an OPC charges less than a grand for a new clutch...
They're the best cars in the world but there will be people out there who have flogged them - try a few because the good ones shine like supernovas in the night sky. I am well known for buying the first car that I see, and after 3 immediate 993 purchases I know what a good one feels like
Honestly, I'd like the last 993 ever made, then tailored to my engine spec, but just because it was a late one doesn't necessarily mean it's the best. Try a few, and get a feel for it. My 1994 is orders of magnitude better than my last 1996, perhaps I had a bad one...
(quick edit: I'm in Kent, give me a shout, though mine's been messed about with
>> Edited by cyberface on Saturday 25th June 00:40
2 weeks ago I purchased a 1997 (R reg) 993 C4S.
Mettalic Black / Black leather interior.
69000 miles, fully documented Porsche service history, lots of receipts to back it up.
New clutch at 48000, new brakes all round at 65000, service at 65000.
New P-Zero Tyres recently fitted.
I bought from a non Porsche dealer, had it checked by Strasse in Leeds, received a good report and negotiated the deal.
I paid a little short of £35K for the car, (from a ticket price of £39,990) and am absolutely delighted to date.
Remember a dealer does not usually sell at a loss, so I gave close to my my max budget figure of £35K once the car had been inspected and asked if that would buy the car.
I looked at a car local to me for the same money and on comparison there was no contest as it needed a clutch, brakes and a service, £3K ish. This was a 55000 mile car. It was silver and nothing like as good condition.
Try to look at a few, do your homework and don't let your heart rule your head. Take a friend that can give an unbiased opinion.
Good luck and hopefully the above helps you a little
CGF993
Mettalic Black / Black leather interior.
69000 miles, fully documented Porsche service history, lots of receipts to back it up.
New clutch at 48000, new brakes all round at 65000, service at 65000.
New P-Zero Tyres recently fitted.
I bought from a non Porsche dealer, had it checked by Strasse in Leeds, received a good report and negotiated the deal.
I paid a little short of £35K for the car, (from a ticket price of £39,990) and am absolutely delighted to date.
Remember a dealer does not usually sell at a loss, so I gave close to my my max budget figure of £35K once the car had been inspected and asked if that would buy the car.
I looked at a car local to me for the same money and on comparison there was no contest as it needed a clutch, brakes and a service, £3K ish. This was a 55000 mile car. It was silver and nothing like as good condition.
Try to look at a few, do your homework and don't let your heart rule your head. Take a friend that can give an unbiased opinion.
Good luck and hopefully the above helps you a little
CGF993
I think you're spot on with those prices. I got my '96 993 (RHD+FSH+aircon) privately for under £25k.
However I've since spent about £2k on it(RS Clutch & tyres all round)
I couldn't find a car anywhere that had supporting documents suggesting a new clutch had been fitted - although plenty of dealers 'insisted' that their cars had had replacement clutches!
In the end I paid less and sorted the job out myself(and kept the receipt!)
However I've since spent about £2k on it(RS Clutch & tyres all round)
I couldn't find a car anywhere that had supporting documents suggesting a new clutch had been fitted - although plenty of dealers 'insisted' that their cars had had replacement clutches!
In the end I paid less and sorted the job out myself(and kept the receipt!)
Personally I can't see why anyone would dismiss a car because it's not had a clutch. A clutch is what, £1K? Just about any other problem on a porker costs more than £1k so a clutch cannot be a deciding factor.
My turbo didn't have any record of a clutch at 36K when I bought it. A clutch, rather like us all is dying all the time but unlike us can easily be replaced!
My turbo didn't have any record of a clutch at 36K when I bought it. A clutch, rather like us all is dying all the time but unlike us can easily be replaced!
missed your point.
my point is porkers are expensive if they break OR if you track them (consumables!)
Only way to buy is to buy the lowest priced very best example you can manage. I can now, looking back over the last two years say I've done very well. Paid £40K for a 36K turbo4, done 8K in it, 15 track days and only spent money on oil, tyres and fuel (i'll exclude seat mods and tuition!).
Very hard to say what will make a good car, only time will tell.
my point is porkers are expensive if they break OR if you track them (consumables!)
Only way to buy is to buy the lowest priced very best example you can manage. I can now, looking back over the last two years say I've done very well. Paid £40K for a 36K turbo4, done 8K in it, 15 track days and only spent money on oil, tyres and fuel (i'll exclude seat mods and tuition!).
Very hard to say what will make a good car, only time will tell.
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