Looking to buy a 991.1 GT3 - but a few concerns
Discussion
I'm in the market for a 991.1 GT3 having come from an M3/RS4, but don't know that much about GT3's. Obviously the big concern is the engine but they all seem to have been replaced by Porsche with the G series (I think) together with a long warranty.
My budget is at the lower end of the market (£80/90k) so I'm possibly looking at higher mileage cars with maybe only 3/4 years of the engine warranty left to run. Should I be concerned by this and what will happen to the car's value when the warranty expires? Can I get a Porsche warranty extension?
I have found a car at Ashgood in Berkshire with what seems to be my perfect spec but it has done 35k miles and had 6 owners (which does concern me a little to be honest) - it is the 2014 white/grey wrapped car @ £81995. The price presumably reflects the number of owners. It would be my daily drive (it's a 10 mile round trip to work + the very occasional track day as I have a Caterham R500 for those duties) and I'd fit MPS 4S tyres to it anyway.
Any thoughts or advice would be gratefully received.
My budget is at the lower end of the market (£80/90k) so I'm possibly looking at higher mileage cars with maybe only 3/4 years of the engine warranty left to run. Should I be concerned by this and what will happen to the car's value when the warranty expires? Can I get a Porsche warranty extension?
I have found a car at Ashgood in Berkshire with what seems to be my perfect spec but it has done 35k miles and had 6 owners (which does concern me a little to be honest) - it is the 2014 white/grey wrapped car @ £81995. The price presumably reflects the number of owners. It would be my daily drive (it's a 10 mile round trip to work + the very occasional track day as I have a Caterham R500 for those duties) and I'd fit MPS 4S tyres to it anyway.
Any thoughts or advice would be gratefully received.
1: ask what engine is has the last engines had 6 revisions, many cars out there don;t have the new engine hence the warranty they offered over a recall as it was far cheaper.
2: never buy a wrapped car.
3: values who knows.
4: if you track it don't buy a .1 in my personal opinion, the only reason the .1 RS tracks ok is they lowered the peak rev's to 8600 from 9k for protection.
If you track a 991.1 in sports plus, you will ruin that engine if it's the older ones it's a when not if.
5: owners will say just buy one it's a non issue they are great value but they don't track them or if they do they are in that when stage.
6: with 2030 coming I don't think the 991.1 PDK cars will be the ones people will buy for keepers so I expect values on many modern cars to fall out the sky, just no one knows when yet the .1 Gt3 will have a double wammy as in 4 years the engine warranty runs out and then 2030 only 6 years away.
7: G engines still fail.
the short term future atm while they ponder the race wars on alternative fuels, is renting an electric and owning a classic or modern classic for fun.
If you fancy one now, buy a non wrapped rev G r6 engine with a full OPC history and no 3rd party stamps and just keep it 2 years.
these cars with that engine and full OPC service history will be the sort after cars down the line and the ones Porsche will look after and offer good will on.
All the above is ONLY my personal view I am happy to debate mine and other peoples views if it's strictly just car related, Other views and opinion's are and will be available, any opinion I post is NOT a statement of fact.
2: never buy a wrapped car.
3: values who knows.
4: if you track it don't buy a .1 in my personal opinion, the only reason the .1 RS tracks ok is they lowered the peak rev's to 8600 from 9k for protection.
If you track a 991.1 in sports plus, you will ruin that engine if it's the older ones it's a when not if.
5: owners will say just buy one it's a non issue they are great value but they don't track them or if they do they are in that when stage.
6: with 2030 coming I don't think the 991.1 PDK cars will be the ones people will buy for keepers so I expect values on many modern cars to fall out the sky, just no one knows when yet the .1 Gt3 will have a double wammy as in 4 years the engine warranty runs out and then 2030 only 6 years away.
7: G engines still fail.
the short term future atm while they ponder the race wars on alternative fuels, is renting an electric and owning a classic or modern classic for fun.
If you fancy one now, buy a non wrapped rev G r6 engine with a full OPC history and no 3rd party stamps and just keep it 2 years.
these cars with that engine and full OPC service history will be the sort after cars down the line and the ones Porsche will look after and offer good will on.
All the above is ONLY my personal view I am happy to debate mine and other peoples views if it's strictly just car related, Other views and opinion's are and will be available, any opinion I post is NOT a statement of fact.
Wow - that makes pretty depressing reading.
It sounds like the engine might still be an issue.
I should have said l wouldn’t buy it with the wrap - they say they will remove it.
I can’t stretch to the 4.0 engine in the 991.2 unfortunately so it’s a Gen 1 or nothing.
Thank you for your replies.
It sounds like the engine might still be an issue.
I should have said l wouldn’t buy it with the wrap - they say they will remove it.
I can’t stretch to the 4.0 engine in the 991.2 unfortunately so it’s a Gen 1 or nothing.
Thank you for your replies.
Re Warranty, 12 months on my 991.2 GT3 is £1195 I would ask Ashgood or indeed any other trader to have it covered before you buy it. Make it part of the negotiation. If you buy without you need to own it for three months before you can get it covered yourself. I think you can keep the extended warranty until 14 years or 100k miles. Although this is not the same as a manufacturers warranty so you would need to check the
T’s & C’s. They may charge more for the 991.1 GT3 becaus elf the engine issues. Porsche warranty is very good and well worth the money, do not accept Ashgood’s own or any other third party warranty.
I believe 911 R is right about track use and the 991.1 GT3 in that there is some evidence that even with the latest engines there are issues if you track it and drive it using full rev range etc. There’s a thread on here where someone with a lot of knowledge about the engine issues mentions it.
Not unusual for a GT3 to have an owner per year or more but that is a high mileage car so should be serval £k cheaper than an equivalent car. I’d say 2k or 3k miles a year is average. It’s the right time of year to buy one of these so be patient and you will find a car.
T’s & C’s. They may charge more for the 991.1 GT3 becaus elf the engine issues. Porsche warranty is very good and well worth the money, do not accept Ashgood’s own or any other third party warranty.
I believe 911 R is right about track use and the 991.1 GT3 in that there is some evidence that even with the latest engines there are issues if you track it and drive it using full rev range etc. There’s a thread on here where someone with a lot of knowledge about the engine issues mentions it.
Not unusual for a GT3 to have an owner per year or more but that is a high mileage car so should be serval £k cheaper than an equivalent car. I’d say 2k or 3k miles a year is average. It’s the right time of year to buy one of these so be patient and you will find a car.
If you don't want to track it and only want to use it as a daily for a 10 mile trip each way why go for the GT3.
Would a Turbo or a Turbo S not be a better choice as a daily?
On the plus side you can thrash the hell out of the car knowing that if the engine goes pop you will get it replaced under warranty. If it does not go pop it is probably a good engine and I believe you can extend the warranty for another 5 years after the free warranty is up
Could be a great buy
Would a Turbo or a Turbo S not be a better choice as a daily?
On the plus side you can thrash the hell out of the car knowing that if the engine goes pop you will get it replaced under warranty. If it does not go pop it is probably a good engine and I believe you can extend the warranty for another 5 years after the free warranty is up
Could be a great buy
EvoSid said:
If you don't want to track it and only want to use it as a daily for a 10 mile trip each way why go for the GT3.
Would a Turbo or a Turbo S not be a better choice as a daily?
On the plus side you can thrash the hell out of the car knowing that if the engine goes pop you will get it replaced under warranty. If it does not go pop it is probably a good engine and I believe you can extend the warranty for another 5 years after the free warranty is up
Could be a great buy
Spot on Evosid. The 991.1 GT3 is the only GT3 with a free manufacturers warranty that can be extended out till 2030 for the later cars. The car the OP is looking at could have a Porsche warranty on it until Oct 2029. It is looking extremely good value at £82k when you take this into account and what else you can get for 82k and surely gives piece of mind if you ever needed it. Its already covered 35k miles so if it was going to have any issues, they would have surfaced by now anyway.Would a Turbo or a Turbo S not be a better choice as a daily?
On the plus side you can thrash the hell out of the car knowing that if the engine goes pop you will get it replaced under warranty. If it does not go pop it is probably a good engine and I believe you can extend the warranty for another 5 years after the free warranty is up
Could be a great buy
If you do get an issue, you get a brand new engine in a couple of weeks with RS internals - the 9k limit stays in place and they are reported to feel more torquey so its a bonus if you can get one!
There is no GT3 that is bullet proof despite what everyone tells you. They are discussing a 991.2 GT3, 991.2 GT3 RS and a 991.1 GT3 RS over on Rennlist that have all had engines failures..at least you are covered with the 991.1.
991-2-gt3-catastrophic-engine-failure
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-gt3rs-gt2rs-an...
991-2-gt3rs-engine-failure-and-warranty-denied
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-gt3rs-gt2rs-an...
2016gt3rs-valve-spring-failure
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-gt3rs-gt2rs-an...
Edited by Flat0ut on Monday 23 November 13:46
Flat0ut said:
Spot on Evosid. The 991.1 GT3 is the only GT3 with a free manufacturers warranty that can be extended out till 2030 for the later cars. The car the OP is looking at could have a Porsche warranty on it until Oct 2029. It is looking extremely good value at £82k when you take this into account and what else you can get for 82k and surely gives piece of mind if you ever needed it. Its already covered 35k miles so if it was going to have any issues, they would have surfaced by now anyway.
If you do get an issue, you get a brand new engine in a couple of weeks with RS internals - the 9k limit stays in place and they are reported to feel more torquey so its a bonus if you can get one!
There is no GT3 that is bullet proof despite what everyone tells you. They are discussing a 991.2 GT3, 991.2 GT3 RS and a 991.1 GT3 RS over on Rennlist that have all had engines failures..at least you are covered with the 991.1.
you will get manufacturer defects on every item made known to man that's a lot different to a known fault which cannot be really be fixed 100%.If you do get an issue, you get a brand new engine in a couple of weeks with RS internals - the 9k limit stays in place and they are reported to feel more torquey so its a bonus if you can get one!
There is no GT3 that is bullet proof despite what everyone tells you. They are discussing a 991.2 GT3, 991.2 GT3 RS and a 991.1 GT3 RS over on Rennlist that have all had engines failures..at least you are covered with the 991.1.
As for more torque and the likes of RS parts, that all hearsay and cannot be taken as fact, the RS runs a lower rev limit and that must have been a very big choice for Porsche on the RS model to have to lower it to protect the engines.
Same again saying a 35k mile engine should be ok, one might say it's done so many it could have it's day tomorrow as it's 99% worn to now misfire next week.
Many a 2nd hand car has been bought only to fail on the 1st track day as people hunt out nice looked after cars, then track it and it starts to misfire.
the 991.1 is a ton of luck that's it, What you can say is, it's been a known fault and for a number of reasons not just the finger followers.
I guess 10 revisions + of that engine.
They cannot do a full recall for a 2nd time, as the 1st recall was all cars and people did get money back from Porsche.
They then decided to take a punt at the 10 year warranty to save money over a 2nd full recall, it's that black and white.
The RS came and the rev limit had to go down to 8600 some even say 8400 in some gears, that was a tough choice to sell the flagship car with a lower red line. It's to save the engine, again that's black and white. it's admitting an issues esp as the .2 GT3 and RS went back to the 9k headline figures.
For me personally it's a lemon of a car if you track one in sports plus auto mode, the eps is not even that good anyway on it vs todays GT3 cars.
The only way to protect yourself as they are a nice value now is like I said above, buy a G spec engine on R6 revision with a full OPC history.
Porsche are well known to offer good will if your car has 100% OPC service stamps. And then come sale time you are also selling a tier one car with the newest engine.
"All the above is ONLY my personal view I am happy to debate mine and other peoples views if it's strictly just car related, Other views and opinion's are and will be available, any opinion I post is NOT a statement of fact."
Porsche911R said:
you will get manufacturer defects on every item made known to man that's a lot different to a known fault which cannot be really be fixed 100%.
As for more torque and the likes of RS parts, that all hearsay and cannot be taken as fact, the RS runs a lower rev limit and that must have been a very big choice for Porsche on the RS model to have to lower it to protect the engines.
Same again saying a 35k mile engine should be ok, one might say it's done so many it could have it's day tomorrow as it's 99% worn to now misfire next week.
Many a 2nd hand car has been bought only to fail on the 1st track day as people hunt out nice looked after cars, then track it and it starts to misfire.
the 991.1 is a ton of luck that's it, What you can say is, it's been a known fault and for a number of reasons not just the finger followers.
I guess 10 revisions + of that engine.
They cannot do a full recall for a 2nd time, as the 1st recall was all cars and people did get money back from Porsche.
They then decided to take a punt at the 10 year warranty to save money over a 2nd full recall, it's that black and white.
The RS came and the rev limit had to go down to 8600 some even say 8400 in some gears, that was a tough choice to sell the flagship car with a lower red line. It's to save the engine, again that's black and white. it's admitting an issues esp as the .2 GT3 and RS went back to the 9k headline figures.
For me personally it's a lemon of a car if you track one in sports plus auto mode, the eps is not even that good anyway on it vs todays GT3 cars.
The only way to protect yourself as they are a nice value now is like I said above, buy a G spec engine on R6 revision with a full OPC history.
Porsche are well known to offer good will if your car has 100% OPC service stamps. And then come sale time you are also selling a tier one car with the newest engine.
"All the above is ONLY my personal view I am happy to debate mine and other peoples views if it's strictly just car related, Other views and opinion's are and will be available, any opinion I post is NOT a statement of fact."
Re track work / sport mode - there are many 991.1 GT3 that are tracked hard and show no issues so this contradicts what you are saying - you only have to look on Rennlist to see this where they have 10x the number of cars we have in the UK and people use them a lot more on track. I also speak from first hand experience (unlike yourself) and have one that gets used for track use in Sport mode all the time - it hasn't ever had an issue in 6 years of track work, the car has been faultless.As for more torque and the likes of RS parts, that all hearsay and cannot be taken as fact, the RS runs a lower rev limit and that must have been a very big choice for Porsche on the RS model to have to lower it to protect the engines.
Same again saying a 35k mile engine should be ok, one might say it's done so many it could have it's day tomorrow as it's 99% worn to now misfire next week.
Many a 2nd hand car has been bought only to fail on the 1st track day as people hunt out nice looked after cars, then track it and it starts to misfire.
the 991.1 is a ton of luck that's it, What you can say is, it's been a known fault and for a number of reasons not just the finger followers.
I guess 10 revisions + of that engine.
They cannot do a full recall for a 2nd time, as the 1st recall was all cars and people did get money back from Porsche.
They then decided to take a punt at the 10 year warranty to save money over a 2nd full recall, it's that black and white.
The RS came and the rev limit had to go down to 8600 some even say 8400 in some gears, that was a tough choice to sell the flagship car with a lower red line. It's to save the engine, again that's black and white. it's admitting an issues esp as the .2 GT3 and RS went back to the 9k headline figures.
For me personally it's a lemon of a car if you track one in sports plus auto mode, the eps is not even that good anyway on it vs todays GT3 cars.
The only way to protect yourself as they are a nice value now is like I said above, buy a G spec engine on R6 revision with a full OPC history.
Porsche are well known to offer good will if your car has 100% OPC service stamps. And then come sale time you are also selling a tier one car with the newest engine.
"All the above is ONLY my personal view I am happy to debate mine and other peoples views if it's strictly just car related, Other views and opinion's are and will be available, any opinion I post is NOT a statement of fact."
Porsche identified the issue after many hours of testing as a metal defect in a small number of cars - not all cars are effected - those that are get a new engine - its pretty simple. Like you also sort of seem to acknowledge - there have also been no failures of the latest G6 Porsche replacement engine since Porsche identified the problem back in 2017. If what you said about the sport plus mode on track was true, we would have seen failures from these but we haven't seen any so the view is the issue has been resolved. All this is exactly as Porsche described back in 2017 in their meeting with the Porsche Owners so no big conspiracy theories here about saving costs.
Its not all doom and gloom like you seem to suggest everytime someone looks for a bit of advice on here
. Perhaps you should get over to Rennlist a bit more often, do a bit more reading up on it and you might be a bit better informed...https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-gt3rs-gt2rs-an...
I think caution is wise.
The problems for the pre-DFI engine were also talked down and many people believed that with a few mods they could be reliable ... I wonder how many people regret the decision to create a cheap GT3 from these ...
I can think of a few that I know of ... and there weren't that many willing to take the chance ...
The problems for the pre-DFI engine were also talked down and many people believed that with a few mods they could be reliable ... I wonder how many people regret the decision to create a cheap GT3 from these ...
I can think of a few that I know of ... and there weren't that many willing to take the chance ...
FYI - others have stated that there are a number of engine variants (E, F, G). Mine came with an F (Nov ‘14) as confirmed by engine number sticker under engine lid and in door opening. Interestingly I discovered last week that the car has had a replacement engine at some point in its life, as it takes the later, modified/different oil filter. Car has done 9k miles. The engine number has not been updated on any of the stickers and I will need to get the car on a ramp to check the engine number stamped on the engine. A brief bit of research suggests that this later oil filter was implemented as part of a number of mods for the G series engine, I will only be able to confirm which specific G variant once I get a read of the number.
I called Porsche UK but they would not tell me anything ( date of change, engine variant etc!).
Echo what others have said, epic car and great value. Yes if you have £40k more buy a .2 but for 99% of the action a .1 will do very nicely
I called Porsche UK but they would not tell me anything ( date of change, engine variant etc!).
Echo what others have said, epic car and great value. Yes if you have £40k more buy a .2 but for 99% of the action a .1 will do very nicely
If Dave actually bothered to read the 991.1 rennlist post he linked to he'd have noticed that there was an issue with the guys airbox and claims of debris in the bore and suspicion of the OPC cracking the airbox when it was in for a service. But he doesn't. He just spouts his b
ks whenever he can and when he's called out he doesn't respond. As I said before, he really needs friends who call him out on his rubbish.
ks whenever he can and when he's called out he doesn't respond. As I said before, he really needs friends who call him out on his rubbish. OP, I’d play the waiting game on buying as the market normally cools marginally in December through to February & hence dealers can be a little more flexible on price. If the dealer wants to sell the car & it’s the one you want, you could negotiate with them to see if they’d have the wrap professionally removed at their expense (if you put a returnable deposit down), before you buy it & if the paintwork is all ok then you’ll complete the purchase.
Firstly, thank you all for your replies and opinions.
Secondly, I'm now more confused than ever by the massive difference in comments and opinions.
Either they are basically a good quality, decent performance car with an epic engine or they are actually 'chocolate engines' and to be avoided at all costs which I find hard to believe. Every car ever sold has got flaws and issues.
Just to confirm again; if I buy a 991.1 GT3 with the 3.8 engine it will have a proper Porsche engine warranty for 10 years (from when?) and/or 100k miles? Is this correct?
Secondly, I'm now more confused than ever by the massive difference in comments and opinions.
Either they are basically a good quality, decent performance car with an epic engine or they are actually 'chocolate engines' and to be avoided at all costs which I find hard to believe. Every car ever sold has got flaws and issues.
Just to confirm again; if I buy a 991.1 GT3 with the 3.8 engine it will have a proper Porsche engine warranty for 10 years (from when?) and/or 100k miles? Is this correct?
Mankers said:
FYI - others have stated that there are a number of engine variants (E, F, G). Mine came with an F (Nov ‘14) as confirmed by engine number sticker under engine lid and in door opening. Interestingly I discovered last week that the car has had a replacement engine at some point in its life, as it takes the later, modified/different oil filter. Car has done 9k miles. The engine number has not been updated on any of the stickers and I will need to get the car on a ramp to check the engine number stamped on the engine. A brief bit of research suggests that this later oil filter was implemented as part of a number of mods for the G series engine, I will only be able to confirm which specific G variant once I get a read of the number.
I called Porsche UK but they would not tell me anything ( date of change, engine variant etc!).
Echo what others have said, epic car and great value. Yes if you have £40k more buy a .2 but for 99% of the action a .1 will do very nicely
Pre cMay 2014 991.1 GT3s had the first engine swap from the original factory unit at OPCs but many didn't bother changing the V5 engine number but most OPCs issued the relevant stickers.I called Porsche UK but they would not tell me anything ( date of change, engine variant etc!).
Echo what others have said, epic car and great value. Yes if you have £40k more buy a .2 but for 99% of the action a .1 will do very nicely
Post May 14 cars had factory fitted upgrade engines.
CycleSi said:
Firstly, thank you all for your replies and opinions.
Secondly, I'm now more confused than ever by the massive difference in comments and opinions.
Either they are basically a good quality, decent performance car with an epic engine or they are actually 'chocolate engines' and to be avoided at all costs which I find hard to believe. Every car ever sold has got flaws and issues.
Just to confirm again; if I buy a 991.1 GT3 with the 3.8 engine it will have a proper Porsche engine warranty for 10 years (from when?) and/or 100k miles? Is this correct?
CycleSi on the car you are looking at it is covered by a Porsche manufacturers warranty until Oct 2024 or 120,000 miles which ever comes sooner. This is free, comes with the car and covers the whole engine and should you be unlucky enough to have any issue, Porsche will sort it out quickly and without fuss. In Oct 2024 you can then purchase a Porsche approved warranty for a further 5 years till Oct 2029 should you wish for further piece of mind. Secondly, I'm now more confused than ever by the massive difference in comments and opinions.
Either they are basically a good quality, decent performance car with an epic engine or they are actually 'chocolate engines' and to be avoided at all costs which I find hard to believe. Every car ever sold has got flaws and issues.
Just to confirm again; if I buy a 991.1 GT3 with the 3.8 engine it will have a proper Porsche engine warranty for 10 years (from when?) and/or 100k miles? Is this correct?
I would take what you read on here with a pinch of salt as there are a few odd characters (most have never owned the car). There is a lot more factual based information on Rennlist and a lot more owners on it - you will find a more positive response there.
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