Metzger vs M96 character
Discussion
I’m talking about pre DFI M96 vs N/A Metzger
Could it be argued that the M96 is more characterful? By that I mean closer in nature to the air cooled engines,
More clattery, more mechanical?
I ask because I watched a video on a YT channel called number 27, and the chap observed that the GT3 engine was not as characterful as he had hoped, I believe he also owned a 964 at the time.
Does this resonate with anyone?
Could it be argued that the M96 is more characterful? By that I mean closer in nature to the air cooled engines,
More clattery, more mechanical?
I ask because I watched a video on a YT channel called number 27, and the chap observed that the GT3 engine was not as characterful as he had hoped, I believe he also owned a 964 at the time.
Does this resonate with anyone?
The Metzger engine is much more closely related to the aircooled engines that preceeded it than the M96. The bottom end is actually a develpment of the 964 unit. The Metzger unit is designed to work in a far higer rev range than the 964 aircooled unit so it feels very differnt. I have a 964 and a 996 GT3. Like most 964 units it has a cup pipe and cat bypass which makes it sound very nice. The 996 GT3's were built it a time when there was no real emphasis on exhaust noise so theres no opening valves etc. that later engines had. If you want a 996 Metzger unit to sound nice, its not hard to do. In terms of driving character, they both have huge character, just different. The 964 unit is more suited to a road driving environment the GT3 comes alive on the track. Something that even now, some drivers just dont seem to understand.
Comparing the M96 to the Metzger is basically comparing a racing engine to a road engine. If you want bags of low down torque and no wailing top end, there's no point in buying a Gt3
Comparing the M96 to the Metzger is basically comparing a racing engine to a road engine. If you want bags of low down torque and no wailing top end, there's no point in buying a Gt3
chappardababbar said:
I’m talking about pre DFI M96 vs N/A Metzger
Could it be argued that the M96 is more characterful? By that I mean closer in nature to the air cooled engines,
More clattery, more mechanical?
I ask because I watched a video on a YT channel called number 27, and the chap observed that the GT3 engine was not as characterful as he had hoped, I believe he also owned a 964 at the time.
Does this resonate with anyone?
No.Could it be argued that the M96 is more characterful? By that I mean closer in nature to the air cooled engines,
More clattery, more mechanical?
I ask because I watched a video on a YT channel called number 27, and the chap observed that the GT3 engine was not as characterful as he had hoped, I believe he also owned a 964 at the time.
Does this resonate with anyone?
The Mezger engine to my ears is a grumpy/clattery lump with bags of character
Edited by shantybeater on Tuesday 5th January 10:30
Steve Rance said:
The Metzger engine is much more closely related to the aircooled engines that preceeded it than the M96. The bottom end is actually a develpment of the 964 unit. The Metzger unit is designed to work in a far higer rev range than the 964 aircooled unit so it feels very differnt. I have a 964 and a 996 GT3. Like most 964 units it has a cup pipe and cat bypass which makes it sound very nice. The 996 GT3's were built it a time when there was no real emphasis on exhaust noise so theres no opening valves etc. that later engines had. If you want a 996 Metzger unit to sound nice, its not hard to do. In terms of driving character, they both have huge character, just different. The 964 unit is more suited to a road driving environment the GT3 comes alive on the track. Something that even now, some drivers just dont seem to understand.
Comparing the M96 to the Metzger is basically comparing a racing engine to a road engine. If you want bags of low down torque and no wailing top end, there's no point in buying a Gt3
Great knowledge. Thank youComparing the M96 to the Metzger is basically comparing a racing engine to a road engine. If you want bags of low down torque and no wailing top end, there's no point in buying a Gt3
bloody tourist said:
Putting aside its flaws, the M96 engine has enough character especially with PSE (more so than the 9A1 which is too quiet) and is linear in power delivery, but is more of a road engine than racing engine.
I've experienced both and agree. M96 has all sorts of noises going on - especially induction noise that's lacking in the 9A1!Andyoz said:
bloody tourist said:
Putting aside its flaws, the M96 engine has enough character especially with PSE (more so than the 9A1 which is too quiet) and is linear in power delivery, but is more of a road engine than racing engine.
I've experienced both and agree. M96 has all sorts of noises going on - especially induction noise After a year and a little over 10,000 miles driving my 996 C2 3.6 (M96) I've just bought back my old Metzger engined turbo (keep reading, it's not the silent standard car). Both of my cars have full exhaust systems including manifolds.
I currently have both as the C2 isn't selling fast in this market and having driven them back to back it's fascinating to me just how different they sound.
From youtube/old memories I thought they sounded very similar but every single aspect is completely different. The turbo starter motor which spins much faster (probably due to the dry sump). The idle character, which sounds like a bee hovering in the Metzger and like a smooth sowing machine in the M96. The Metzger always sounds like it's revving higher than the M96, it's a higher pitch note and I keep thinking I'm in 4th rather than 6th in the turbo until I look and the revs are actually very low. The inertia when you blip yhe throttle too, the revs rise and fall a lot faster than in the M96 engine.
I love the M96, I think it's much under rated. It got me back into 911s, made me fall in love with them again. The engine sounds clean, crisp, refined and strong. It's actually much more refined (smoother) sounding than the Metzger. When the revs climb past 5000rpm it really feels like it's on song and when you change up at revs, the next gear engages with a wonderful deep note. I never tired of it and I still smile when I drive it.
You know it's coming.. but the Metzger just has that special factor, even idling at a traffic lights it has that high energy buzzing like a Ferrari or Lamborghini idling, there's something that tells your ear immediately, that engine is not a normal engine. Then when you're coming down through the box at high rpm the toe and heel shifts just sound EPIC. Good god, it's absolute music, there are few cars on the planet that make a nicer noise than that.
Yep.. if you're passing Northampton after lockdown, drop me a PM and if I still have both you're very welcome to do a back to back and form your own opinion but for me there's no contest. I'd take the M96 over very many engines.. but never the Metzger and that's in a turbo. The GT3 just sounds even better.
I currently have both as the C2 isn't selling fast in this market and having driven them back to back it's fascinating to me just how different they sound.
From youtube/old memories I thought they sounded very similar but every single aspect is completely different. The turbo starter motor which spins much faster (probably due to the dry sump). The idle character, which sounds like a bee hovering in the Metzger and like a smooth sowing machine in the M96. The Metzger always sounds like it's revving higher than the M96, it's a higher pitch note and I keep thinking I'm in 4th rather than 6th in the turbo until I look and the revs are actually very low. The inertia when you blip yhe throttle too, the revs rise and fall a lot faster than in the M96 engine.
I love the M96, I think it's much under rated. It got me back into 911s, made me fall in love with them again. The engine sounds clean, crisp, refined and strong. It's actually much more refined (smoother) sounding than the Metzger. When the revs climb past 5000rpm it really feels like it's on song and when you change up at revs, the next gear engages with a wonderful deep note. I never tired of it and I still smile when I drive it.
You know it's coming.. but the Metzger just has that special factor, even idling at a traffic lights it has that high energy buzzing like a Ferrari or Lamborghini idling, there's something that tells your ear immediately, that engine is not a normal engine. Then when you're coming down through the box at high rpm the toe and heel shifts just sound EPIC. Good god, it's absolute music, there are few cars on the planet that make a nicer noise than that.
Yep.. if you're passing Northampton after lockdown, drop me a PM and if I still have both you're very welcome to do a back to back and form your own opinion but for me there's no contest. I'd take the M96 over very many engines.. but never the Metzger and that's in a turbo. The GT3 just sounds even better.
Edited by Niffty951 on Wednesday 6th January 08:04
In the 1990's, when Le Mans switched the categories to GT1, 2 & 3. The GT3 did exactly that, raced, pretty close to road spec, for 24 hours. Of the two engines, only the Mezger has seen wide use in competition, both in national Carrera Cup series, international Supercup series and the Le Mans, Spa, Daytona and other 24 hour races..
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff