Legal to remove rear seat belts?

[aceparts_com]

I've got GT3 seats (different colour ones) in my air cooled monster. As it is not really safe to carry passengers in the rear of a car with fixed back seats, can I remove the rear seat belts? They rattle like mad.

[warmfuzzies]

I failed an MOT because I removed a seatbelt.

I was kindly informed, that if it came with them fitted, then they should be there.

kevin.

[m12_nathan]

I think it is ok to remove them if you also remove the seats. If you have fixed back seats you can fail the mot anyway if you have rear seats can't you?

[roygarth]

m12_nathan said:

I think it is ok to remove them if you also remove the seats. If you have fixed back seats you can fail the mot anyway if you have rear seats can't you?

I didn't. Maybe they didn't notice. Yes, uniquely my 993RS has rear seats. I replaced the 'Sports' seats with fixed back Recarro buckets.

[m12_nathan]

www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/carlgvowners/mottesting/carcomponentstested.htm

"All compulsory seatbelts must be in place."

I guess you should give them a bell to find out if a belt is compulsory if there are no seats.

[SpeedYellow]

If there are no seats in the back, then there is no need for the belts.

I did the same with a 993 TT and with the seats out of the back there was no problem.

One thing though, make sure you tell the insurance company you have fixed seats, a broker friend warned me that some insurance companies have used that to get out of a total loss claim in the past....

[aceparts_com]

Just spoken to my insurer - Classicline and they're OK with the fixed back seats. Also OK with RMA track days so it's all good

[tat]

[quote]
Yes, uniquely my 993RS has rear seats. [/quote]

Did your RS have rear seats fitted as a factory option, and was it certificated as a 4 seater?

I'm asking because I'm thinking of putting seats the back of a 964RS.

tat

[roygarth]

tat said:

[quote] Yes, uniquely my 993RS has rear seats.

Did your RS have rear seats fitted as a factory option, and was it certificated as a 4 seater?

I'm asking because I'm thinking of putting seats the back of a 964RS.

tat

[/quote]

It was supplied new in Germany with rear seats, but I don't know whether that means it is certified as a 4 seater.

[roygarth]

aceparts_com said:

Just spoken to my insurer - Classicline and they're OK with the fixed back seats. Also OK with RMA track days so it's all good

Are they OK with multiple shades of grey leather interior?

[aceparts_com]

Don't even go there. I've got samples of 'classic grey' coming from different porsche specialist trimmers - i will post results.

[johnfm]

tat said:

[quote] Yes, uniquely my 993RS has rear seats.

Did your RS have rear seats fitted as a factory option, and was it certificated as a 4 seater?

I'm asking because I'm thinking of putting seats the back of a 964RS.

tat

[/quote]

Where can one find a car's "certification" anyway? There's been a lot said about 2 or 4 seat re GT3s and I am wondering where the alleged classification exists. The GT£ still has all the mounting points under the rear carpet for rear seats & seat belts, and I can't figure on which bit of paper it would specify the car as a 2 or 4 seat vehicle.

[roygarth]

johnfm said:

tat said: [quote] Yes, uniquely my 993RS has rear seats. Did your RS have rear seats fitted as a factory option, and was it certificated as a 4 seater? I'm asking because I'm thinking of putting seats the back of a 964RS. tat

Where can one find a car's "certification" anyway? There's been a lot said about 2 or 4 seat re GT3s and I am wondering where the alleged classification exists. The GT£ still has all the mounting points under the rear carpet for rear seats & seat belts, and I can't figure on which bit of paper it would specify the car as a 2 or 4 seat vehicle.[/quote]

I havent got a clue John!

[Merritt]

roygarth said:

Where can one find a car's "certification" anyway? There's been a lot said about 2 or 4 seat re GT3s and I am wondering where the alleged classification exists. The GT£ still has all the mounting points under the rear carpet for rear seats & seat belts, and I can't figure on which bit of paper it would specify the car as a 2 or 4 seat vehicle.

I havent got a clue John![/quote]

John - its on the registration document.. With that said I have just checked my new reg document and there is nothing typed in next to header... im sure it was in place on the old one

Steve

[aceparts_com]

With the rear seat belts removed and the seats folded down there's one less thing for the front seats no to match!

[glpinxit]

Short answer 'yes if you remove the rear seats'.

Long answer: I've had a look at the schedule 2 to the amendment to the 'construction and use regulations' (The motor vehicles approval regulations (1996), SI3013/96; www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1996/Uksi_19963013_en_1.htm). At para 11 (Fitting of seat belts) this says:
3. If the vehicle has an effective date on or after 1st April 1987, in addition to the seat belts required by paragraph 1 and 2 above, it shall be fitted with a harness belt, a lap belt, a passive belt or threepoint belt for every other forward-facing seat.

The 'effective date' is the date of manufacture and paragraphs 1 and 2 refer to front seats. So if you have seats in the rear you have to provide belts for them. But since there is no requirement to provide seats and modifying a vehicle that originally had rear seats by removing them isn't expressly prohibited there is no reason why you can't go ahead.

All the best,
Guy.

[tat]

[quote]

Where can one find a car's "certification" anyway? There's been a lot said about 2 or 4 seat re GT3s and I am wondering where the alleged classification exists. The GT£ still has all the mounting points under the rear carpet for rear seats & seat belts, and I can't figure on which bit of paper it would specify the car as a 2 or 4 seat vehicle.[/quote]


On the new V5 for my 964 it says "2" against Number of Seats. So I guess the car would technically be "overloaded" if there are more than 2 on board.

tat