Help Needed - I just do not know what to buy
Discussion
As the title says, I really am at a cross roads about what to buy, I have been procrasinating about it for some time probably a couple of years truth be told, but I am almost in a position to take the plunge and I hope collectively we can argue and debate the options I currently have in my head. Whatever option I go for unless something drastic happens will be a keeper and probably the last performance car I buyThe plan was to go for a 992 Carrera T when that materialised, but I had a 992 GTS for a few days on test and as stunning as it was, I don't think it really got my excited, it felt big and dare I say to refined and easy to drive? All a bit too polished, which I know is the biggest cliche in the book.
It's worth pointing out the majority of my driving I enjoy is B road blasting, I do enjoy the track, but if you were to weigh it up what this car will be doing I would say its 70:30 in the favour of being on the road.
So first up lets go through the Cayman options I have always been a Cayman fan, loved my 987S, now with a littleun in tow though am I going to want the back seats of a 911? Or is that wishful thinking and the reality is they won't get used that much.
718 GTS 4.0
I was signing on the dotted line for one of these when they were first announced, then a surprise pregnancy was announced the day after, so I had to quickly retreat, now things have settled again this could be an option, its still a very special car, however lead times on a new one are pretty long and finding one specced to how I would have specced mine from new. I do wonder whether it would suffer the refinement issues I thought with the 992 though longer term, but reading the other thread about them, people definitely love them.
981 Cayman GT4
Prices on these are starting to soften a bit again, and I think as an overall package, probably a bit more raw than the 718's? And financing them is favourable as they hold their money so well. Is it a bit overkill for my road usage bias?
Cayman R
The Ultimate 987? They look fantastic, probably even more raw again then the 981, again finding one at the right time with the right spec is tough, the good ones go instantly and the ones I don't fancy hang around forever.
So 911's and this is where I have been giving most thought.
991 Carrera T
I think these are still strong money for that they are, probably a bit too strong right now but if they softened a little then maybe I'd consider one. Again, is the 991 going to be a bit like the 992 for me? To big, too grown up, too refined? Again finding the right spec one at the right time, tough.
997.1 Carrera 2S Project
This is where I have spent most of my time thinking, find a tired but straight car, if one was sub £20k having already been diagnosed as having borescoring then great, straight up to Hartech and go for the 4.1 conversion whilst it was there and some choice transmission and exhaust upgrades etc. Full suspension refresh with coilovers of the KW or Ohlins flavour. Full respray, something unique, but still from the PTS roster and budget for about £45k all in.... my worry is this could get out of hand and budgets could get spicy. I know fully well if you do this the money spent will always be more than what the car is worth, so you have to make sure its definitely the right options.
That was a very long winded post, so apologies, but would love to hear people's thoughts. More than anything I think I just needed to verbalise all of that out!
It's worth pointing out the majority of my driving I enjoy is B road blasting, I do enjoy the track, but if you were to weigh it up what this car will be doing I would say its 70:30 in the favour of being on the road.
So first up lets go through the Cayman options I have always been a Cayman fan, loved my 987S, now with a littleun in tow though am I going to want the back seats of a 911? Or is that wishful thinking and the reality is they won't get used that much.
718 GTS 4.0
I was signing on the dotted line for one of these when they were first announced, then a surprise pregnancy was announced the day after, so I had to quickly retreat, now things have settled again this could be an option, its still a very special car, however lead times on a new one are pretty long and finding one specced to how I would have specced mine from new. I do wonder whether it would suffer the refinement issues I thought with the 992 though longer term, but reading the other thread about them, people definitely love them.
981 Cayman GT4
Prices on these are starting to soften a bit again, and I think as an overall package, probably a bit more raw than the 718's? And financing them is favourable as they hold their money so well. Is it a bit overkill for my road usage bias?
Cayman R
The Ultimate 987? They look fantastic, probably even more raw again then the 981, again finding one at the right time with the right spec is tough, the good ones go instantly and the ones I don't fancy hang around forever.
So 911's and this is where I have been giving most thought.
991 Carrera T
I think these are still strong money for that they are, probably a bit too strong right now but if they softened a little then maybe I'd consider one. Again, is the 991 going to be a bit like the 992 for me? To big, too grown up, too refined? Again finding the right spec one at the right time, tough.
997.1 Carrera 2S Project
This is where I have spent most of my time thinking, find a tired but straight car, if one was sub £20k having already been diagnosed as having borescoring then great, straight up to Hartech and go for the 4.1 conversion whilst it was there and some choice transmission and exhaust upgrades etc. Full suspension refresh with coilovers of the KW or Ohlins flavour. Full respray, something unique, but still from the PTS roster and budget for about £45k all in.... my worry is this could get out of hand and budgets could get spicy. I know fully well if you do this the money spent will always be more than what the car is worth, so you have to make sure its definitely the right options.
That was a very long winded post, so apologies, but would love to hear people's thoughts. More than anything I think I just needed to verbalise all of that out!
991.2 Carrera T a great package feels like the 997.1 C2S so way more analogue than the 992 gen and last of the narrow bodied Carreras and very low build numbers should guarantee very strong future residuals no problem. Only downside is vague gearbox action particularly in upper ratios and of course non na engine although it is a reasonable one at that. Still regret selling mine in 2019 in fact I could have kept it whacked on the miles and sold for more even now.
The usual naysayers and armchair experts of course poo pood these as effectively being an expensive hairdressers Carrera S with little weight benefit but this was clearly missing the point of both models and typically the same folks similarly poo pood the 997 GTS on introduction and look where prices of both are now reflecting demand lol.
Whilst the 981 GT4 is a good package these are expensive now imo for a 7 year old car I would spend more and go for the 718 GT4 bespoke proper Porsche GT engine with much higher 8k rev limit and overall better car better engine great intake noise and with much better economy too. (owned both from new and 981 Spyder too so speak from experience). There are quite a few late reg low miles on the market so these offer great value atm with inclusive warranty and most 1 owner especially v the relatively high priced typically multi owned 981 GT4.
4.0 GTS also a great package but if you found the 911 GTS rather humdrum this will be similar and for the little extra the 718 GT4 raises the bar substantially far greatersense of occasiin proper Porsche GT and is great value at the money.
The usual naysayers and armchair experts of course poo pood these as effectively being an expensive hairdressers Carrera S with little weight benefit but this was clearly missing the point of both models and typically the same folks similarly poo pood the 997 GTS on introduction and look where prices of both are now reflecting demand lol.
Whilst the 981 GT4 is a good package these are expensive now imo for a 7 year old car I would spend more and go for the 718 GT4 bespoke proper Porsche GT engine with much higher 8k rev limit and overall better car better engine great intake noise and with much better economy too. (owned both from new and 981 Spyder too so speak from experience). There are quite a few late reg low miles on the market so these offer great value atm with inclusive warranty and most 1 owner especially v the relatively high priced typically multi owned 981 GT4.
4.0 GTS also a great package but if you found the 911 GTS rather humdrum this will be similar and for the little extra the 718 GT4 raises the bar substantially far greatersense of occasiin proper Porsche GT and is great value at the money.
Edited by av185 on Tuesday 12th July 11:52
If I had to go for a modern generation Porsche ideally to fit the kids in, look special and feel a bit special, it would have to be a normally aspirated (so gen1 only I think?) 991 GTS Targa.
They do everything from karting the kids around or the daily commute. If you manage to ferry the kids off to the grandparents for a few days, you and your wife can enjoy a top-down cruise to the South of France with all your luggage, looking great, driving great and sounding great.
If I ever go regular use, modern 911, it will be a 991 Targa GTS.
This is my mate’s old one. Perfect.
They do everything from karting the kids around or the daily commute. If you manage to ferry the kids off to the grandparents for a few days, you and your wife can enjoy a top-down cruise to the South of France with all your luggage, looking great, driving great and sounding great.
If I ever go regular use, modern 911, it will be a 991 Targa GTS.
This is my mate’s old one. Perfect.
Edited by marky911 on Tuesday 12th July 14:25
julian987R said:
997 GTS. Seems a no-brainer to me.
The problem with the 997 GTS, there is one manual for sale at the moment, I did forget to mention this was a manual only discussion. And that car is £85k which is a punchy. You could replicate and make even better what a GTS is for a lot less. Shame, some centerlocks would be epic.Thanks for the initial responses though guys
Da Original Whyayedee said:
julian987R said:
997 GTS. Seems a no-brainer to me.
The problem with the 997 GTS, there is one manual for sale at the moment, I did forget to mention this was a manual only discussion. And that car is £85k which is a punchy. You could replicate and make even better what a GTS is for a lot less. Shame, some centerlocks would be epic.Thanks for the initial responses though guys
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2011-porsche-9...
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2011-porsche-9...
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2011-porsche-9...
all at fair prices.
or this S which is heavily specced and with buckets (very rare) giving you the sportiness in the front, comfort in the back for the kids.
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2008-porsche-9...
....would be a good 997 S for you.
Da Original Whyayedee said:
julian987R said:
997 GTS. Seems a no-brainer to me.
The problem with the 997 GTS, there is one manual for sale at the moment, I did forget to mention this was a manual only discussion. And that car is £85k which is a punchy.I’m with av185 above.
OP, you are just going to make a personal decision based on what works best for you.
I had a 987 Boxster Spyder which is not a million miles from a Cayman R and loved it to bits for four years. I also had a 997 GTS and they are epic, especially above 6000 rpm but personally prefer its replacement - a Carrera T - now 4 1/2 years in with no intention of changing.
A good pal has just switched out of his Carrera T for a 981 Spyder though and much prefers that, which, having driven it in the sunshine at the weekend, I can fully understand.
GT3 is on another level, but price wise too. T a great all round compromise, especially for road use with rear seats too.
All of which is just my subjective opinion…
OP, you are just going to make a personal decision based on what works best for you.
I had a 987 Boxster Spyder which is not a million miles from a Cayman R and loved it to bits for four years. I also had a 997 GTS and they are epic, especially above 6000 rpm but personally prefer its replacement - a Carrera T - now 4 1/2 years in with no intention of changing.
A good pal has just switched out of his Carrera T for a 981 Spyder though and much prefers that, which, having driven it in the sunshine at the weekend, I can fully understand.
GT3 is on another level, but price wise too. T a great all round compromise, especially for road use with rear seats too.
All of which is just my subjective opinion…
I think that GTS does get too close price wise to the GT3's. 6 months ago I think they would have been in scope, but they have really gone up in price now too, there are a couple around £95k which ultimately although doable is probably a bit more than I would like to spend. Same goes for the 718 GT4.
And I think that's why I didn't list the 997 GTS, they are nice, but big money.
Julian a 997.2 C2S would be a sensible choice, however the price the command over a 997.1 (for obvious reasons) means you could have a properly sorted 997.1 for the similar money. And although no known issues with the DFI engine granted, lots of them have done good miles and might still need attention in time.
Ahhh all good responses guys thank you, not expecting anyone to make a decision for me but good to hear some opinions.
And I think that's why I didn't list the 997 GTS, they are nice, but big money.
Julian a 997.2 C2S would be a sensible choice, however the price the command over a 997.1 (for obvious reasons) means you could have a properly sorted 997.1 for the similar money. And although no known issues with the DFI engine granted, lots of them have done good miles and might still need attention in time.
Ahhh all good responses guys thank you, not expecting anyone to make a decision for me but good to hear some opinions.
marky911 said:
Centrelocks are a ball ache if you do any of your own tinkering.
The main problem with 997 GTS’ is that they look very expensive next to a 991 version. That’s coming from someone who almost always champions the older stuff.
I can remove my centre lock wheels faster than standard ones. The only thing you need is a decent torque wrench. Other than that it’s a doddle. The main problem with 997 GTS’ is that they look very expensive next to a 991 version. That’s coming from someone who almost always champions the older stuff.
FWIW - I just sold my 991.2 S Cab as the offer from Motorway was too strong to ignore - now up for £14K more than I got for it. I suspect anything you buy at this end of the market may take a significant haircut over the next year as new car availability eases. I enjoyed my 997S but really did feel old in the cockpit. I'd echo other poster 991.1 Targa as a great fun car with presence!
Da Original Whyayedee said:
It's worth pointing out the majority of my driving I enjoy is B road blasting, I do enjoy the track, but if you were to weigh it up what this car will be doing I would say its 70:30 in the favour of being on the road.
To me, this para, plus manual only, plus a baby in tow are the key factors. Don’t underestimate how the baby will feed into this. If you get a Cayman-based car, that means you’ll never use the car all together, which in turn means that when you use it, it’s likely to be you on your own, taking some time out from familial life.
All very tedious to dwell on, I know, but ask yourself whether that is going to fly (I’m not prejudging your answer; it just seems an obvious Big Question that needs to be addressed before you go further.
If this will be a car just for you to spend time in, then IMO a Cayman ticks the boxes. Personally I think of the non-GT4 options the 981 front end is a bit better looking than the 718. But whichever way you go you’re looking at a GTS or a GT4. Then it’s just a question of budget and personal preferences.
If the field opens up to a 911, then for me the question is normally aspirated or turbo’d, which for me trumps which car is outright faster. A 991.1 GTS manual would probably be my go to.
If you do plump for a 911, you might want to check how easy it is (or isn’t) to get a baby seat into it, and then a baby into the baby seat. Because if it’s impractical or just difficult, why bother with the extra seats. OTOH if it is to be a long term keeper, then you could suffer this for a few years until you’re at the booster seat stage.
bridggar1 said:
FWIW - I just sold my 991.2 S Cab as the offer from Motorway was too strong to ignore - now up for £14K more than I got for it. I suspect anything you buy at this end of the market may take a significant haircut over the next year as new car availability eases. I enjoyed my 997S but really did feel old in the cockpit. I'd echo other poster 991.1 Targa as a great fun car with presence!
The waiting lists on new are still measured in years, though. Don't think the problem will ease over night, particuarly combined with inflation. BlackWidow13 said:
To me, this para, plus manual only, plus a baby in tow are the key factors.
Don’t underestimate how the baby will feed into this. If you get a Cayman-based car, that means you’ll never use the car all together, which in turn means that when you use it, it’s likely to be you on your own, taking some time out from familial life.
All very tedious to dwell on, I know, but ask yourself whether that is going to fly (I’m not prejudging your answer; it just seems an obvious Big Question that needs to be addressed before you go further.
It'll fly that's not really an issue. But yes, its a big factor I definitely have thoughts about us packing up and going somewhere in the UK on holiday, saying pack light and we'll take the 911. I guess in my head though I am weighing up how often that would happen and would I just spend most of my time driving by myself anyway, kids and partners don't always appreciate a spirited drive anyway.Don’t underestimate how the baby will feed into this. If you get a Cayman-based car, that means you’ll never use the car all together, which in turn means that when you use it, it’s likely to be you on your own, taking some time out from familial life.
All very tedious to dwell on, I know, but ask yourself whether that is going to fly (I’m not prejudging your answer; it just seems an obvious Big Question that needs to be addressed before you go further.
It's all good points though.
Opinions are like.... and you can fill in the rest. So here's mine:
£45 - 55k used - 981 GTS
£70 - 85k used - 991.1 GTS
£70 - 85k new - 718 GTS
Above £90k you're into used exotica territory and the Porkers, aside from the GT cars maybe, are just not special enough in that company. If you've got more than £90k to spend on a fun car I'd be looking at other brands.
£45 - 55k used - 981 GTS
£70 - 85k used - 991.1 GTS
£70 - 85k new - 718 GTS
Above £90k you're into used exotica territory and the Porkers, aside from the GT cars maybe, are just not special enough in that company. If you've got more than £90k to spend on a fun car I'd be looking at other brands.
Da Original Whyayedee said:
It'll fly that's not really an issue. But yes, its a big factor I definitely have thoughts about us packing up and going somewhere in the UK on holiday, saying pack light and we'll take the 911. I guess in my head though I am weighing up how often that would happen and would I just spend most of my time driving by myself anyway, kids and partners don't always appreciate a spirited drive anyway.
It's all good points though.
The first question would be how likely are you really to do that?It's all good points though.
The second is how enjoyable would it be driving loaded up with partner and sprog if you actually did it? Personally find it hard to imagine it's a recipe for enjoyable driving. I mean, how likely is it that you're going to be flinging it down a great B road, blipping up and down the 'box as opposed to pootling about wondering why you didn't take a larger, more appropriate car for the job?
It's all doable, but to what end?
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