GT3 RS - Oil Leak/other probs?!?!
Discussion
I've just been viewing an RS at an OPC and noticed a few issues which I'd like some commentary on. Its a mar 04 car with about 5k on the clock.
Firstly any thoughts on this here oil leak?
Sorry its not terribly well focussed, but the whole central thingy hanging down (gearbox I assume?) seems to have oil on it, and there were a few drops on the floor of the dealership. I didn't find this entirely encouraging on a 5k car with the 'unburstable' GT1 block... Heres another pic :
Sure seems a lot of oil? Dealer was muttering about it maybe being an overfill, but that doesn't inspire much confidence either!
Also, anyone able to comment on the condition of these ceramics. I notice there is this white fibrous material stuck to the inside of the alloys that looks to have come from the discs. Is this a sign they are degrading? Is it also bad for the alloys finish to have left this material on for a period of time?
Finally, any thoughts on how the damage to this OSF calliper might have occured? It looks like its taken a decent whack to have removed so much of the calliper paint. Bad sign, or just incompetent spannering when someone was bleeding the brakes? If the latter, thats probably a bad sign too as someone incompetent has worked on the car. Otherwise I'm wondering if its signs of a sizeable gravel trap bath.
I realise this pic isn't great, but theres a big chip on the paint just below the bleed valve.
Would appreciate peoples comments on these issues as I was considering this car quite strongly, but its not looking so hot anymore...
Unshrunk versions of these images are on the following links. Quality is still not that great as it was on the camera phone but its easier to see the state of the ceramics.
www.danharman.com/RS/DSC00012.JPG
www.danharman.com/RS/DSC00013.JPG
www.danharman.com/RS/DSC00014.JPG
www.danharman.com/RS/DSC00015.JPG
www.danharman.com/RS/DSC00016.JPG
www.danharman.com/RS/DSC00019.JPG
>> Edited by DanH on Sunday 14th August 19:58
DaGinge said:
Could be a number of things - loose hose, leaky seal, cack-handed filling. If you're buying from an OPC then I wouldn't worry about it - a little oil is no biggie and would be covered by the warranty.
I thought they were a bit funny about certain seals being covered etc? Don't want to get it home and then realise 6 months on that their repair didn't work to get stuffed with a bill.
mart1n said:
The paint chip on the caliper is probably the result of careless wheel changing, it happened to one of mine when I had new tyres.
I wondered about that. Guess that means I need to check the discs very carefully as he may have chipped the ceramic too then. Seems off that it would have new front tyres at under 5k though, even for a track car? Dunno how much tread Corsa Systems start with though. Its more than on the motorsports I think.
Dan,
Not sure on the oil leak, was it engine or gearbox?
Have to say that mine has never leaked a drop but I have know other cars to blow a bit of oil when they are over filled.
As for the disks, they all look like that after a few track days. From experiance you can expect about 9K miles form the ceramics before they are no longer servicable.
Caliper looks like someone slipped.
New tyres at 5K miles? Its been tracked. Not a bad thing as that was what it was intended for
You could always buy my car though which has new ceramics, no oil leaks and no nasty chips on the calipers ;-)
P.
Not sure on the oil leak, was it engine or gearbox?
Have to say that mine has never leaked a drop but I have know other cars to blow a bit of oil when they are over filled.
As for the disks, they all look like that after a few track days. From experiance you can expect about 9K miles form the ceramics before they are no longer servicable.
Caliper looks like someone slipped.
New tyres at 5K miles? Its been tracked. Not a bad thing as that was what it was intended for
You could always buy my car though which has new ceramics, no oil leaks and no nasty chips on the calipers ;-)
P.
Paul, still considering yours, but the mileage is a bit high given that I expect to use it a fair amount myself and don't want to end up with something that I can never sell should I need to. There are so many GT3s about that having one with 5x the average mileage could be a real problem to shift. Not to mention I've been offered a very compelling deal on this car with 18 months of warranty etc.
Not sure where that oil was from, I couldn't get under the car, but it seemed like that whole area which I think is the gearbox had a fair amount on it. Guess I'll have to see what the OPC says.
Any comment on those funny fibres from the discs on the alloys? They all do that?
To the people saying get a car with steals, its a bit academic as you can convert the cars for 3k and if the price is right. As long as theres some service life left then who cares in the short term.
Henry from the Virgin thingy dealership reckons that once the car is a few years old, condition is everything.
Mileage is less important than how it's been treated, and my question would be, do you need to take a chance on the "overfill" or the worn ceramics ?
I would far rather buy from the original owner who has cherished the car from new than a dealer who at best has been careless but may have purchased the car from a first owner who simply didn't care --- and the dealer now has metal to shift.
Mileage is less important than how it's been treated, and my question would be, do you need to take a chance on the "overfill" or the worn ceramics ?
I would far rather buy from the original owner who has cherished the car from new than a dealer who at best has been careless but may have purchased the car from a first owner who simply didn't care --- and the dealer now has metal to shift.
ChrisW. said:1
Henry from the Virgin thingy dealership reckons that once the car is a few years old, condition is everything.
Mileage is less important than how it's been treated, and my question would be, do you need to take a chance on the "overfill" or the worn ceramics ?
I would far rather buy from the original owner who has cherished the car from new than a dealer who at best has been careless but may have purchased the car from a first owner who simply didn't care --- and the dealer now has metal to shift.
These cars aren't that old though, they should all be in good condition with solid warranties on them.
At the moment, the price spread between dealer and private is pretty negligable/often inverted with the exception of Pauls car, which I can well believe is pristine, but is possible a bit leggy given that I want to drive it a lot but need to not end up with an RS with 30k on it when everyone elses is at 8k...
Also with a dealer you have protection under the sale of goods act, a years extra warranty (OPC said would be 18 months as they extend the outstanding manufacturers warranty), someone to bitch to if something trivial isn't right and you want it sorted, etc. Unless theres a bigger spread than most seem to want to offer, theres not a great deal of point going private. Dealers who actually want to sell will be asking between 70-75k at the moment - at least the ones I've spoken to. I don't really see the prices firming up at the moment either given its getting wintery, so suspect those cars still up at 85k will be suffering a sudden price adjustment fairly soon.
>> Edited by DanH on Sunday 14th August 20:53
DAN - I was checking over my car having done some hot laps at spa and when i looked under the back, i thought i had lost the engine cover or OPC had not replaced it. Just to be sure i checked about 6 other turbos, GT3 GT2 etc and only to find they don't have a cover...silly me. Anyway about half the cars i looked at had wetness around the area you show.
It could be excess oil coming from the breather when they get tracked. However i would insist that a oil leak report is produced first, its usually simple follow the wetness north !!
The brakes look similar to mine although someone has taken the time to clean the holes out.
The chip on the caliper could have been done if the caliper was removed to replace the discs ?
Good luck and hope it turns out OK... I am with you on OPC - sale of goods etc..... saved me a clutch.
It could be excess oil coming from the breather when they get tracked. However i would insist that a oil leak report is produced first, its usually simple follow the wetness north !!
The brakes look similar to mine although someone has taken the time to clean the holes out.
The chip on the caliper could have been done if the caliper was removed to replace the discs ?
Good luck and hope it turns out OK... I am with you on OPC - sale of goods etc..... saved me a clutch.
DanH said:
There are so many GT3s about that having one with 5x the average mileage could be a real problem to shift.
Dan, Understand that but at 12k miles it is not "leggy" and definatly not 5X the average mileage!
Why, it is hardly run in!
Don't get too hung up on the warranty, you can buy an extended warranty from Porsche which is what most people do once the original 2 year has expired.
As quite a few people have pointed out there are a lot of cars out there. Take your time and chose the one that is right for you.
P.
porsche4life said:
DAN - I was checking over my car having done some hot laps at spa
Were you there last Wednesday/Thursday ?
There were I have to say some magnificent machines from Stuttgart & particularly Weissach, the latter presumably testing for the Belgian GP support race in a few weeks. If I knew how to post pictures here (which clearly I don't !), I would.
Dan
You should also check the front PU and the bonnet for yellowing paint - another issue covered by the OPC.
The warrentee is worth having and can be extended I think up to 100K or 10 years!
Curiosly any mechanical problems I have had have been solved by the OPC pronto but the paint issue dragged on for at least 6 months.
Most importantly you have chosen the right colour - those red ones are so much slower.
James
You should also check the front PU and the bonnet for yellowing paint - another issue covered by the OPC.
The warrentee is worth having and can be extended I think up to 100K or 10 years!
Curiosly any mechanical problems I have had have been solved by the OPC pronto but the paint issue dragged on for at least 6 months.
Most importantly you have chosen the right colour - those red ones are so much slower.
James
Well I've been assured its an oil overfill.
Dealer is now telling me someone else is interested etc. Must admit that I'm slightly put off by this overfill which I can't see a good reason for given its OPC serviced, and could potentially have done the engine some real harm if it was really overdone. Things like the chipped calliper etc aren't great either as whilst its not exactly life threatening, its not great on a car with such low mileage.
>> Edited by DanH on Monday 15th August 11:23
porsche4life said:
saved me a clutch.
hmm... next car i buy i think will be private.
new clutch i believe is about £800 parts and labour. by buying your car through a dealer you probably spent £6k more than you needed to... hardly think you've saved any money! as long as it has a proper porsche warranty etc etc...
i have to say paul's car seems like the bargain of a lifetime. spend a few hundred getting it looked at by a dealer before the purchase and you should be sorted.
btw welcome back dan. i trust now that the nuisance of the honeymoon is out of the way you can get on with the business of getting a car! in fact i am very very tempted by paul's car. if you are interested in mine mail me. then i can buy his and we'll all be happy!
Thanks for the welcome back. To be honest the dealer called me on honeymoon, so I've not dropped the ball completely whilst I've been away! I've decided its an RS for me
Sorry on the GT2 front! Moving forward on this car I think as the main concern was the oil and its pretty well covered. Depends on whether they accept my offer though.
The car has never even been into rev range 2, and apparently its on its original tyres at 4.5k which suggests its not really had a hard life at all.
>> Edited by DanH on Monday 15th August 12:51
DanH said:
The car has never even been into rev range 2, and apparently its on its original tyres at 4.5k which suggests its not really had a hard life at all.
To me that would suggest that this was a track-toy which probably had MPSC or similar and then changed back to "street" tyres for selling.
Don't let high mileage put you off - my Mk1 has 40K on the clock and drives like an absolute dream.
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