Discussion
Hi
I was looking for some advice and this seems to be a good place to start, I have just bought a daily driver hatchback and I am selling my 350z, I am looking to buy a car that offers me more thrills and less depreciation (although IMHO the 350 was a good drivers car) Anyway I have searched a load of old threads etc and reckon a 964RS would fit the bill, I love the idea of something a bit more hardcore than the usual. So a couple of Questions:-
Quite a few of the threads seem to mention that these are a suitable motor for those with a budget in the £25-30k bracket, but the few I see for sale seem to be low to upper £30’s, what do people reckon is the right money for a nice (I presume lhd) example?
I want to buy the car to keep long term, I don’t expect or particularly want to make any money on the value of the car but will have to borrow over a fairly long term to buy it so I would rather not see too much depreciation, the RS seems tipped for good future values, is this realistic?
Where would people recommend looking for one?
Thanks!
I was looking for some advice and this seems to be a good place to start, I have just bought a daily driver hatchback and I am selling my 350z, I am looking to buy a car that offers me more thrills and less depreciation (although IMHO the 350 was a good drivers car) Anyway I have searched a load of old threads etc and reckon a 964RS would fit the bill, I love the idea of something a bit more hardcore than the usual. So a couple of Questions:-
Quite a few of the threads seem to mention that these are a suitable motor for those with a budget in the £25-30k bracket, but the few I see for sale seem to be low to upper £30’s, what do people reckon is the right money for a nice (I presume lhd) example?
I want to buy the car to keep long term, I don’t expect or particularly want to make any money on the value of the car but will have to borrow over a fairly long term to buy it so I would rather not see too much depreciation, the RS seems tipped for good future values, is this realistic?
Where would people recommend looking for one?
Thanks!
I don't know if Paul of GT classics posts on here, if he does he will be able to give you a fuller answer.
Basically yor guide of 25-35k is about right.
The 964RS is a track day car at heart and most have seen some track days and also seen some bodywork at some time or another. This tends to be reflected in the prices acheived. Good undamaged cars with lowish miles will be fetching top money as they are now rare things indeed. A sliding scale for want of a better description exisits, based on condition,mileage and quality of any bodywork carried out. Good repaired cars usually 40K miles + start at about 25k but dont expect perfection at that price and don't expect many around at that sort of money. Expect them to want a little work too (suspension, tyres brakes etc). You will always find cars cheaper but expect a story behind them. There are many poorly repaired or dodgy historied cars around. Most cars will be in the top 20's to mid 30k bracket. Quite a few 964RS are now quite well modified too, though mostly in the engine chip exhaust area. This can sometimes be reflected in the price of some cars. Judge what you want to buy by what use you want to put it too. No point imho buying a concours car if you plan to track it. And vice versa.But each to his own.
There are a wealth of good cars in the Uk try GT classics or the many specialists, ninemeister often has knowledge of customers cars for sale. Further afield Thomas Schmitt of Hermanns & Schmitt in Germany has probably seen most RS's through his showroom at some time and is a wealth of info. Though with the current euro it's hard to justify going to Germany,though many still do. Hope this helps.
Basically yor guide of 25-35k is about right.
The 964RS is a track day car at heart and most have seen some track days and also seen some bodywork at some time or another. This tends to be reflected in the prices acheived. Good undamaged cars with lowish miles will be fetching top money as they are now rare things indeed. A sliding scale for want of a better description exisits, based on condition,mileage and quality of any bodywork carried out. Good repaired cars usually 40K miles + start at about 25k but dont expect perfection at that price and don't expect many around at that sort of money. Expect them to want a little work too (suspension, tyres brakes etc). You will always find cars cheaper but expect a story behind them. There are many poorly repaired or dodgy historied cars around. Most cars will be in the top 20's to mid 30k bracket. Quite a few 964RS are now quite well modified too, though mostly in the engine chip exhaust area. This can sometimes be reflected in the price of some cars. Judge what you want to buy by what use you want to put it too. No point imho buying a concours car if you plan to track it. And vice versa.But each to his own.
There are a wealth of good cars in the Uk try GT classics or the many specialists, ninemeister often has knowledge of customers cars for sale. Further afield Thomas Schmitt of Hermanns & Schmitt in Germany has probably seen most RS's through his showroom at some time and is a wealth of info. Though with the current euro it's hard to justify going to Germany,though many still do. Hope this helps.
A 964RS is a truly great 911,,,,yes it is hardcore and to my mind a perfect trackday car.
In my experience it is not that great as road car and is not at home on a bumpy B road, I would drive one to see if it suits your purpose. If you are not intending to use the car mostly for trackdays, there are other 911 I would consider.
In my experience it is not that great as road car and is not at home on a bumpy B road, I would drive one to see if it suits your purpose. If you are not intending to use the car mostly for trackdays, there are other 911 I would consider.
whatever you buy, buy on mechanical not purely cosmetic condition, There are a lot of 'pretty' cars out there which are dogs underneath, or have nasty histories.
You may want to speak to a few owners prior to buying one. They are very stiffly setup and bounce all over UK roads. I found mine wasn't happy unless it was being driven 'agressively', when it then comes alive. To drive them slowly is tiring, as they can be understeery, etc.
Check front suspension bushes, worn diff plates, get a leakdown test done on the engine. Get an inspection done by someone who knows 964RS's, even if it means a few hour journey from where you are based. Check the play in the gearbox, and how easily gears are selected. I buzzed mine once, and 3rd was never the same again!
They may need different geo if you intend to track them regularly to help the front end hook up. Round the Ring, I found mine too stiff when driven hard as it wasn't compliant enought over the 'ring's many bumps and undulations.
Give Paul at GT classics a call. He acts as Tom Schmitz's 'agent' in the UK. As already mentioned he will prob know of a variety of cars around at the mo, but may well have chosen not to take thm as stock due to their condition.
Andy Fearns @ AMD (near Bicester) is extremely familiar with the cars and is a nice guy to deal with.
You may want to speak to a few owners prior to buying one. They are very stiffly setup and bounce all over UK roads. I found mine wasn't happy unless it was being driven 'agressively', when it then comes alive. To drive them slowly is tiring, as they can be understeery, etc.
Check front suspension bushes, worn diff plates, get a leakdown test done on the engine. Get an inspection done by someone who knows 964RS's, even if it means a few hour journey from where you are based. Check the play in the gearbox, and how easily gears are selected. I buzzed mine once, and 3rd was never the same again!
They may need different geo if you intend to track them regularly to help the front end hook up. Round the Ring, I found mine too stiff when driven hard as it wasn't compliant enought over the 'ring's many bumps and undulations.
Give Paul at GT classics a call. He acts as Tom Schmitz's 'agent' in the UK. As already mentioned he will prob know of a variety of cars around at the mo, but may well have chosen not to take thm as stock due to their condition.
Andy Fearns @ AMD (near Bicester) is extremely familiar with the cars and is a nice guy to deal with.
Blimey thats a minter, I'd be too scared to use it!
Thanks for the advice there's obviously a wealth of knowledge out there.
I really like the sound of an RS but was not buying it primarily for track use but as a weekend blast and probably the occasional track day, Am I barking up the wrong tree? I considered a turbo2 but prefer a N/A engine with a more progressive response, my friend has a 993 its lovely but a bit too cosy and civilised to lock away all week. I've seen one with 993rs front struts to apparently make it more suitable for fast road use is this right?
Thanks for the advice there's obviously a wealth of knowledge out there.
I really like the sound of an RS but was not buying it primarily for track use but as a weekend blast and probably the occasional track day, Am I barking up the wrong tree? I considered a turbo2 but prefer a N/A engine with a more progressive response, my friend has a 993 its lovely but a bit too cosy and civilised to lock away all week. I've seen one with 993rs front struts to apparently make it more suitable for fast road use is this right?
T1OBR said:
I really like the sound of an RS but was not buying it primarily for track use but as a weekend blast and probably the occasional track day, Am I barking up the wrong tree?
It seems to me (having had an RS for 8 years) that it is a little harsh for UK road use. The track is where it's at. There are people that run them on the road regularly and they will no doubt say it's fine - but it's not best suited for that environment. You will often find the wife/GF (or wife and GF) complaining if they are regular passengers (or drivers).
T1OBR said:
I considered a turbo2 but prefer a N/A engine with a more progressive response, my friend has a 993 its lovely but a bit too cosy and civilised to lock away all week. I've seen one with 993rs front struts to apparently make it more suitable for fast road use is this right?
I agree about turbos - not for me.
I had the 993 dampers on mine and it did improve it on the road (while making it a tiny bit worse on track).
Now I have the Manthey setup KW springs and dampers and it is just awesome.
Comfort wise I'm not worried about the girlfriend she is a bit of a petrolhead anyway.
I don't need/expect a comfy car I used ride Ducatis and they were always rock solid suspension but very satisfying and good fun.
I just love the look and sound of the more raw 911's and its nice too have something a bit different.
Besides I can't think of any other options that appeal (affordable!), any suggestions?
I don't need/expect a comfy car I used ride Ducatis and they were always rock solid suspension but very satisfying and good fun.
I just love the look and sound of the more raw 911's and its nice too have something a bit different.
Besides I can't think of any other options that appeal (affordable!), any suggestions?
be aware that some of the service parts for the RS can be more expensive than the standard C2. Try EBSRacing.com in the US if you ever need any engine components. You can get stronger, race spec components for less than the GBP price of 'standard' kit.
As already mentioned by Joe, the bilstein 'Greens' (993 front dampers) soften the harsh front end.
PS carclassic always seem to have an 'interesting' pricing policy, as do a couple of un-named UK specialst indepedants
As already mentioned by Joe, the bilstein 'Greens' (993 front dampers) soften the harsh front end.
PS carclassic always seem to have an 'interesting' pricing policy, as do a couple of un-named UK specialst indepedants
nuff saidWe have a black LHD RSL immediately available, had a fortune spent on it by the previous owner who has had to move abroad with work, hence now for sale for a close offer around £32k. Highish miles but full respray, new discs with fresh red calipers, refurbished mags, new tyres and mechanically perfect.
Plug over now. Great car for bike enthusiast with life wish, would have one myself for everyday use without question if I had the spare bonce.
Plug over now. Great car for bike enthusiast with life wish, would have one myself for everyday use without question if I had the spare bonce.
Thanks Ninemeister, had already noted you guys were not a million miles from me and had a few advertised one black & one red, I think. Will be hoping to pay you a visit as soon as the 350z is sold.
I think the bike analogy sums it up for me, I rode bikes since I was a kid and only left the scene behind 3 years ago for the usual reasons. I miss the fun and directness that you get from bikes, that feeling that you are really plugged into the road (cheesy, sorry) I figure that a car like an RS would offer me some of that sharp uninsulated feel back.
I take it these cars take mileage OK? I mean the engine isn't really in a very high state of tune is it?
I think the bike analogy sums it up for me, I rode bikes since I was a kid and only left the scene behind 3 years ago for the usual reasons. I miss the fun and directness that you get from bikes, that feeling that you are really plugged into the road (cheesy, sorry) I figure that a car like an RS would offer me some of that sharp uninsulated feel back.
I take it these cars take mileage OK? I mean the engine isn't really in a very high state of tune is it?
I recently bought a 964rs from Paul at GT Classics. Good chap, very helpful. I wanted something a bit less extreme than my Caterham (with no windscreen etc) for use 50:50 as a track car and an alternative second car.
No doubt it's not the most comfy place to spend several hours cruising, but small price to pay. Given your background should be quite passable. The hard ride and fidgetyness are half the fun. If you want comfort, get a Merc! Personally, if I was buying now, I would look at one of Clubsports/Cup cars at Tom Schmitz's place.
If buying through some form of dealer then early thirties is on the money.
Re the mileage point, they are well built. If you are going to thrash them then they need some TLC, but it's a car from 1992 and if you want it to hold its value you'll need to do that. There are a number of specialists who are good at this.
>> Edited by jimmyslr on Thursday 18th August 12:45
No doubt it's not the most comfy place to spend several hours cruising, but small price to pay. Given your background should be quite passable. The hard ride and fidgetyness are half the fun. If you want comfort, get a Merc! Personally, if I was buying now, I would look at one of Clubsports/Cup cars at Tom Schmitz's place.
If buying through some form of dealer then early thirties is on the money.
Re the mileage point, they are well built. If you are going to thrash them then they need some TLC, but it's a car from 1992 and if you want it to hold its value you'll need to do that. There are a number of specialists who are good at this.
>> Edited by jimmyslr on Thursday 18th August 12:45
Jimmy if the RS isn't raw enough for you then you should send me a mail. I've got something you might like and Zub wont know which way you went. I'll send you some pics.
Realistic prices for usable 964 RS are low 30's. Though prices range from £25k to £50k for undriveable collectors piece. They all seem to have gone into hiding at the moment though.
Realistic prices for usable 964 RS are low 30's. Though prices range from £25k to £50k for undriveable collectors piece. They all seem to have gone into hiding at the moment though.
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