Polite Haggling - Advice

[churchie2856]

I'm considering going to see a 991 for sale with a dealer a few hours away. I like the car based on the advert, but would require a test drive (its a decade old and done 50K miles). The car i£55K, but I'n my opinion that is 5K above what it is worth retail. Also it has only one OPC service, the rest, all on schedule, are by independents (who exactly I've yet to establish) and this is not an issue if well reputed.

How should I approach this with the independent specialist dealer?

What is the polite way to go about this? Explain my thoughs when I first call them; or when I've looked around it; or after a test drive if then I'd like to buy it.

I'm not about having to putting one over a dealer (I understand they are in buisness have to make a living etc) ... I'm aware another car will come-up ... and you only live once ... etc.

[2 GKC]

Be surprised if they move more than a few hundred quid on price.

[Ed.Neumann]

Why are you even considering it if you think it is £5k overpriced?


There must be a reason that, of all the cars out there, you chose this one?

It is miles away, doesn't have Porsche history and it is overpriced?


So why are you looking at it?

Is it overpriced or over budget?


What I am getting at is it must be the right colour? The exact spec. you want? Or both?

And it is a Porsche, where options make the price more than anything. People pay £10k more for a PTS car in their favourite colour, or will happily pay £5k more for a car with PSE which only cost £2000 new, etc.
But if they are must have options, they will pay it.

Maybe the dealer knows what he has will get him his asking price or pretty close?


Pick the phone up and speak to him, just be honest, say you love the look of it, ask if he has some wiggle room?

Edited by Ed.Neumann on Sunday 8th June 10:50

[stuthemongoose]

5k is quite a gap in modern pricing IMO.

A) If you want to maximise your chance of getting the car for something near what you want, go see it, do your diligence, show you’re serious.

B) If you don’t want to waste 7hours of your time, call them and explain outline thinking upfront and that if it all checks out you’d be serious at £x.

The latter saves you wasted time but makes it less likely you get the car. Your call. The rarer the car the more I’d do option A, if lotsa about, B!

[Johnson897210]

I always compare dealer prices to wbac just to gauge the margin. Some are clearly so massively overpriced and not worth pursuing.

[churchie2856]

Thank you for all you responses. The car in question is a 991.2 C2 PDK with a few extras - so its hardly special. Its £55K and 46K miles.

WBAC buy this at £41K; CarGurus 'trade' is circa £42K; various other source all around the same. So I'm very much of the mind its a £50K car at best.

[MB140]

Johnson897210 said:

I always compare dealer prices to wbac just to gauge the margin. Some are clearly so massively overpriced and not worth pursuing.

I was looking at an Alfa Romeo Guilia Quadrafoglio recently for sale as a private sale. It was going for £2k more than an Alfa main dealer one for sale, same colour, same spec, same year about 3k mileage more than the main dealer.

I looked on wbac, Carwow etc so knew what they would get for a trade in (about £35k), they were asking £42k.

Seller wouldn’t shift at all. I assume they either changed there mind or it didn’t sell because no way would someone pay that much private over what wbac offered.

[Evolved]

What you’re asking for is confirmation others feel a car you’ve seen is overpriced. Can you post a link?

If it’s with an OPC, they have the margins they work to, and regardless of what website you use to cross-compare, they won’t budge more than they feel they need to. If you feel your bid is £50k, try it. There isn’t a polite way of asking for a 10% reduction in price. They will either say yes or no.

[Wilmslowboy]

If its on Autotrader you can see when it was first listed (by looking at the URL) and if you have the price tracker app, if it's been discounted already (and by how much).

Saying all that it sounds expensive.

[Cheib]

If you’re serious and you can afford the time go and see the car. I don’t think telling them you’re interested but need to test drive it, inspect it and also need 10% off is going to get you very far.

Go and see it and it doesn’t hurt for them to know you’ve travelled a long way as they’ll be expecting a sale. Make your offer with the explicit conformation that you will place a deposit at that moment. They will probably counter but you have to be prepared to leave empty handed as they might not believe you’re serious about wanting a £5k discount until you’ve walked out. They might call you the next day…

To get a good deal you have to be prepared to walk away.

Also worth seeing if you can work out how long it has been for sale for. The Autotrader desktop plug in will tell you that if it is on there.

[gareth h]

I bought a 996 turbo recently from an Indy, they had recently dropped the price by £5k, I now know that they like to turn stock over quickly, so I guess it’s timing / pot luck whether they will negotiate.
I’ve always found being pleasant rather than confrontational goes a long way.

[CloudStuff]

Johnson897210 said:

I always compare dealer prices to wbac just to gauge the margin. Some are clearly so massively overpriced and not worth pursuing.

Precisely, because that's the price you'll be pegged to once it's yours.

[LiamH66]

churchie2856 said:

Thank you for all you responses. The car in question is a 991.2 C2 PDK with a few extras - so its hardly special. Its £55K and 46K miles.

WBAC buy this at £41K; CarGurus 'trade' is circa £42K; various other source all around the same. So I'm very much of the mind its a £50K car at best.

About 2 years ago WBAC offered me £32k for an 18 month old low mileage Cayman. I sold it to an OPC for £40k. They sold it, within weeks, for £48k. I cannot take their valuations very seriously, especially for Porsche. A car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. In the case of WBAC, I've always found that to be very, very low.

[Hoofy]

I think the problem is that they want as near to £55k as possible so if you're asking for £5k off (~10%) you need to be quite a good negotiator (ie experienced, practiced) - it's not just about having a few tips to hand but also knowing how to play the game and use things like empathy and getting people on side. I would expect that if you've caught the dealer on a good day, you might be able to reduce the price by £2k. It does depend on how long it's been in stock, rarity, whether they have targets and when the targets are eg end of month etc.

WBAC prices etc is nonsense. They're for people who need the money and will take anything. Try to sell a 996 Turbo to WBAC and you'll be lucky to get £10k. That doesn't mean you can negotiate an 80k miles silver 996 Turbo down from £30k to £20k unless you're some sort of negotiating genius - and if you were then you ought to get a job in B2B sales or similar.

So be realistic on your expectations.

[Terminator X]

£5k off? They will tell you to FRO.

TX.

[ChrisW.]

I disagree ... it costs nothing to have a look at a car and at least have a view of whether or not it's right for you.

At the same time unless the car is a commodity car, any seller would be suspicious of being asked to negotiate when you haven't even seen the car.

Most are amenable to reason, if you can show them evidence of why you think your valuation is fair and you are prepared to make an offer based on that and back it up with an easy sale, then this can be seen as a reasoned negotiation between intelligent parties.

There have been many times when I have walked away and received a follow up call in which a satisfactory price has been agreed, there have also been times when it has been agreed there and then ... and there have also been times when I have simply bought something else ...

What does to cost to have that discussion ?

[rainmaker2]

churchie2856 said:

I'm considering going to see a 991 for sale with a dealer a few hours away. I like the car based on the advert, but would require a test drive (its a decade old and done 50K miles). The car i£55K, but I'n my opinion that is 5K above what it is worth retail. Also it has only one OPC service, the rest, all on schedule, are by independents (who exactly I've yet to establish) and this is not an issue if well reputed.

How should I approach this with the independent specialist dealer?

What is the polite way to go about this? Explain my thoughs when I first call them; or when I've looked around it; or after a test drive if then I'd like to buy it.

I'm not about having to putting one over a dealer (I understand they are in buisness have to make a living etc) ... I'm aware another car will come-up ... and you only live once ... etc.

1. Decide on your max price for the car that you will not go over, irrespective of the stickler price
2. Offer that price saying that’s what it’s worth to you given the market and spec , and if they say no, wait a week, rince and repeat
3. If they sell the car in the meantime, you know your offer was too low

While doing this: Examine life , the universe , your financial situation each week, and if you decide life’s too short and actually it’s the spec you want, just buy it for what the sticker price is anyway and know that you tried but they declined your offer.

[kencom]

Since you are a significant distance away from the dealer, my tactic would be:-

Call them and try to build a rapport based around questions about the vehicle. Specifically concentrate on them explaining any faults on the vehicle (however small).

Explain that you are very interested in the car & that you live a long way away & don't want to waste yours or the dealers time.

Say you have a strict limit that you cannot exceed, no matter what. And that you understand if it’s not acceptable to them.

Make your offer, based on the fact that you will give an immediate ‘over the phone’ holding deposit of £1000. And agree that you will come and collect on a specific date.

Have a contingency plan…

[Muzzer79]

churchie2856 said:

Thank you for all you responses. The car in question is a 991.2 C2 PDK with a few extras - so its hardly special. Its £55K and 46K miles.

WBAC buy this at £41K; CarGurus 'trade' is circa £42K; various other source all around the same. So I'm very much of the mind its a £50K car at best.

I think it's a somewhat naïve viewpoint to base your opinion on what it's worth on WBAC and other buying platforms and trying to pin an amount based on what you 'think' the margin should be.

They tell you what it's worth if you were to trade it in to an online platform that caters for, let's face it, less specialist vehicles than Porsches.
They will therefore naturally under-value it as a trade purchase.

But in addition, they do not tell you what the retail value is, which is driven by demand.

To decide if the car is over-priced, research other vehicles listed for sale and compare. A dealer will not take £5k off the car if others are selling at £55k with similar spec - whether you think he should or not.

But, saying all that - there's an old saying - if your opening bid isn't embarrassing to you then it's too high. You can always offer more later on, but you never again have the option to offer less.

To haggle, simply be polite and honest. Call the dealer, explain your interest and the fact that you will buy it if a deal can be made.
Tell him that you're at £50k.
Expect him to be annoyed and possibly terminate the conversation.

[HTP99]

Muzzer79 said:

churchie2856 said:

Thank you for all you responses. The car in question is a 991.2 C2 PDK with a few extras - so its hardly special. Its £55K and 46K miles.

WBAC buy this at £41K; CarGurus 'trade' is circa £42K; various other source all around the same. So I'm very much of the mind its a £50K car at best.

I think it's a somewhat naïve viewpoint to base your opinion on what it's worth on WBAC and other buying platforms and trying to pin an amount based on what you 'think' the margin should be.

They tell you what it's worth if you were to trade it in to an online platform that caters for, let's face it, less specialist vehicles than Porsches.
They will therefore naturally under-value it as a trade purchase.

But in addition, they do not tell you what the retail value is, which is driven by demand.

To decide if the car is over-priced, research other vehicles listed for sale and compare. A dealer will not take £5k off the car if others are selling at £55k with similar spec - whether you think he should or not.

But, saying all that - there's an old saying - if your opening bid isn't embarrassing to you then it's too high. You can always offer more later on, but you never again have the option to offer less.

To haggle, simply be polite and honest. Call the dealer, explain your interest and the fact that you will buy it if a deal can be made.
Tell him that you're at £50k.
Expect him to be annoyed and possibly terminate the conversation.

Pretty much all of this.

Also why are you even entertaining this car if you believe it is £5k too much?

How does this car compare to others that are of a similar spec and age?

WBAC et al are purely telling you what they will purchase a particular car at that moment in time, this has no bearing at all on the retail value.