Cayman review on Top Gear.....
Discussion
SJN2004 said:
I think what he was trying to say was that it was handicapped so that it wouldn't encroach on the 911, for example no LSD being available etc.
Why did he refer to it as the coxster? Missed the first few minutes of the program.
coupe/boxter....hence coxter in Clarkson world
Yes i tend to agree,seems porsche tend to believe that most of us cant see through their pathetic marketing ploys.
For me the car is a bit of a rip off for the money they are asking for it and for all his porsche hating rants clarkson hits the nail on the head especially about the premiums and poor basic spec.But above all he said the car was souless,i know what he means and thats why i sold my 987.
Good car it maybe but the company has become to cock sure of itself of late and for me thats why it produces such cars.imho anyway.
For me the car is a bit of a rip off for the money they are asking for it and for all his porsche hating rants clarkson hits the nail on the head especially about the premiums and poor basic spec.But above all he said the car was souless,i know what he means and thats why i sold my 987.
Good car it maybe but the company has become to cock sure of itself of late and for me thats why it produces such cars.imho anyway.
rob05 said:
Yes i tend to agree,seems porsche tend to believe that most of us cant see through their pathetic marketing ploys.
For me the car is a bit of a rip off for the money they are asking for it and for all his porsche hating rants clarkson hits the nail on the head especially about the premiums and poor basic spec.But above all he said the car was souless,i know what he means and thats why i sold my 987.
Good car it maybe but the company has become to cock sure of itself of late and for me thats why it produces such cars.imho anyway.
Seconded
all that occured to me was that surely people will be adding superchargers or other mods onto the cayman to make it the car it should have been.
although it does seem a little cynical pricing wise but they are there to make money after all. did i read somewhere that porsche are the most profitable car maker at the moment?
does the boxter have an lsd?
although it does seem a little cynical pricing wise but they are there to make money after all. did i read somewhere that porsche are the most profitable car maker at the moment?
does the boxter have an lsd?
Posted this on another thread, seems it is worth the extra money over the Boxster
1st Maserati MC12 - 1.18.9
2nd Ferrari F60 Enzo - 1.19.0
3rd Ariel Atom - 1.19.5
4th Porsche Carerra GT - 1.19.8
5th Ascari KZ1 - 1.20.7
Mercedes McLaren SLR - 1.20.9
Ford GT - 1.21.9
Ferrari 360 CS - 1.22.3
Porsche GT3 RS - 1.22.3
Murcielago - 1.23.7
Zonda - 1.23.8
Koenigsegg - 1.23.9
Noble - 1.25.0
Gallardo - 1.25.8
Porsche Cayman - 1.26.2
Lotus Exige - 1.26.4
Chevrolet Corvette - 1.26.8
Mercedes CLS 55 AMG - 1.26.9
Porsche 911 GT3 - 1.27.2
TVR 350C - 1.27.5
BMW M3 CSL - 1.28.0
Dodge Viper SRT-10 - 1.28.5
MG SV - 1.28.6
Porsche 911 Carrera S - 1.28.9 (very wet)
Mitsubishi Evo VIII - 1.28.9
BMW Alpine Z8 - 1.29.0
Mercedes CL65 - 1.29
Alfa 3.7 GTA - 1.30.0
Subaru Impreza STI - 1.30.1
Aston Martin DB7 GT - 1.30.4
Vauxhall Monaro VXR - 1.30.16
Audi S4 - 1.30.9
Porsche 911 turbo - 1.31.0
Vauxhall VX 220 turbo - 1.31.3
>> Edited by bumcrack on Sunday 20th November 22:27
1st Maserati MC12 - 1.18.9
2nd Ferrari F60 Enzo - 1.19.0
3rd Ariel Atom - 1.19.5
4th Porsche Carerra GT - 1.19.8
5th Ascari KZ1 - 1.20.7
Mercedes McLaren SLR - 1.20.9
Ford GT - 1.21.9
Ferrari 360 CS - 1.22.3
Porsche GT3 RS - 1.22.3
Murcielago - 1.23.7
Zonda - 1.23.8
Koenigsegg - 1.23.9
Noble - 1.25.0
Gallardo - 1.25.8
Porsche Cayman - 1.26.2
Lotus Exige - 1.26.4
Chevrolet Corvette - 1.26.8
Mercedes CLS 55 AMG - 1.26.9
Porsche 911 GT3 - 1.27.2
TVR 350C - 1.27.5
BMW M3 CSL - 1.28.0
Dodge Viper SRT-10 - 1.28.5
MG SV - 1.28.6
Porsche 911 Carrera S - 1.28.9 (very wet)
Mitsubishi Evo VIII - 1.28.9
BMW Alpine Z8 - 1.29.0
Mercedes CL65 - 1.29
Alfa 3.7 GTA - 1.30.0
Subaru Impreza STI - 1.30.1
Aston Martin DB7 GT - 1.30.4
Vauxhall Monaro VXR - 1.30.16
Audi S4 - 1.30.9
Porsche 911 turbo - 1.31.0
Vauxhall VX 220 turbo - 1.31.3
>> Edited by bumcrack on Sunday 20th November 22:27
When the Cayman was first announced, I thought is was supposed to be a cheaper version of the Boxter...? It ended up as a Boxter on steriods and ugly as sin. I hate to agree with Clarkson, but it's obviosuly a car that has deliberately had it's wings clipped to plug a gap and not tread on the toes of it's "superior" sibling.
We have had complaints of cars being built by bean counters before but this one has definitely been built by the mareketing department. Imaging how pissed off you would be as lead designer on the car. Produce a cracker of a motor (ok, it looks crap) only to be told it's too good so detune it and replace high performance bits with shit parts so it's a bit faster than a Boxter but not as fast as a 911. Pah. Shame.
We have had complaints of cars being built by bean counters before but this one has definitely been built by the mareketing department. Imaging how pissed off you would be as lead designer on the car. Produce a cracker of a motor (ok, it looks crap) only to be told it's too good so detune it and replace high performance bits with shit parts so it's a bit faster than a Boxter but not as fast as a 911. Pah. Shame.
earlierposter said:
Gets a bit of a bashing.
Its not a 911 Well we could all figure that out
Its too expensive & ill-equiped its not expesive. but it is ill-equiped unless u spend a good 10k on extras
Its not fast enoughits not
The brakes don't feel great hes driven the bloody thing i think he knows
The gearbox is a bit fiddly same as above
Its only worth £1.26 well it is.. On the Black market.
Typical Clarkson.
R
I don't understand this 'wings clipped' type of attitude? If they'd put a 3.8l and LSD in, it would cost as much as a 997! In fact you might as well have a 997. Cars are built to a price and a target niche.
This all stems from the billion armchair chassis engineers wittering on about how a rear engined car is some kind of design aberation. They seem to be afronted by the fact that a rear engined car could be at the top of the range (CGT excepted). Yet a rear mounted engine gives a skilled driver so many options to play with the weight, you can brake hard, but also get monster traction out of corners. 911s are frankly fabulous and not the monster on the limit so many people seem to think. Mid engined cars tend to have low polar moments of inertia which makes them a right bastard to catch once they start spinning. You don't see many drifting Elises. You also get packaging problems with mid engined cars, not least supplying enough cool air to the engine bay. Good lock to people wanting to turbocharge the Cayman!
Not that I agree with Clarksons reasons for disliking the car. He's hardly qualified to comment on the cars handling, although he did. My only real disappointment, is that it doesn't seem any prettier moving than static in a magazine, despite journos assurances that it does.
p.s. why don't people moan that the Boxsters wings have been clipped? Its nearly the same car!
>> Edited by DanH on Monday 21st November 00:34
This all stems from the billion armchair chassis engineers wittering on about how a rear engined car is some kind of design aberation. They seem to be afronted by the fact that a rear engined car could be at the top of the range (CGT excepted). Yet a rear mounted engine gives a skilled driver so many options to play with the weight, you can brake hard, but also get monster traction out of corners. 911s are frankly fabulous and not the monster on the limit so many people seem to think. Mid engined cars tend to have low polar moments of inertia which makes them a right bastard to catch once they start spinning. You don't see many drifting Elises. You also get packaging problems with mid engined cars, not least supplying enough cool air to the engine bay. Good lock to people wanting to turbocharge the Cayman!
Not that I agree with Clarksons reasons for disliking the car. He's hardly qualified to comment on the cars handling, although he did. My only real disappointment, is that it doesn't seem any prettier moving than static in a magazine, despite journos assurances that it does.
p.s. why don't people moan that the Boxsters wings have been clipped? Its nearly the same car!
>> Edited by DanH on Monday 21st November 00:34
It interesting would be to know why the company did'nt do the cayman properly?
Its just a political and greed thing going on.These people plan 10 years so why did'nt they just make a base 911 with 360bhp and then the caymam could have had at least 330Bhp.Whats all this two version cr.p about 911 and 911s/?
Just look at what they have done with the enthusiast favourite the 4S,two models one pleb spec the other just another 911 clone.
For me the company only cares about cash and mass production now and the cayman could and should have been the greatest drivers porsche ever more in spirt with the 968cs.
I never though i'd hear myself say this but its what i feel.
I hope the cayman is a flop and not because i dislike the car i dont,only because this company needs a kick up the ar.e.
I'm still hoping they dont do a 2.7 in order to flog the car to death,maybe if the car does'nt sell by the bucket load like the boxster it might end up being a better car for it!
>> Edited by rob05 on Monday 21st November 07:59
Its just a political and greed thing going on.These people plan 10 years so why did'nt they just make a base 911 with 360bhp and then the caymam could have had at least 330Bhp.Whats all this two version cr.p about 911 and 911s/?
Just look at what they have done with the enthusiast favourite the 4S,two models one pleb spec the other just another 911 clone.
For me the company only cares about cash and mass production now and the cayman could and should have been the greatest drivers porsche ever more in spirt with the 968cs.
I never though i'd hear myself say this but its what i feel.
I hope the cayman is a flop and not because i dislike the car i dont,only because this company needs a kick up the ar.e.
I'm still hoping they dont do a 2.7 in order to flog the car to death,maybe if the car does'nt sell by the bucket load like the boxster it might end up being a better car for it!
>> Edited by rob05 on Monday 21st November 07:59
DanH said:
I don't understand this 'wings clipped' type of attitude? If they'd put a 3.8l and LSD in, it would cost as much as a 997! In fact you might as well have a 997. Cars are built to a price and a target niche.
ONLY if Porsche decided to sell it at that price. How much do you think a 3.8 vs 3.4 costs plus an LSD...? I'd hazard a guess at £100-£150 tops. It's all driven by marketing. It fills a gap that was so tight it didn't really need filling. Seems Porsche decided they needed a coupe Boxter then got greedy.
DanH said:
p.s. why don't people moan that the Boxsters wings have been clipped? Its nearly the same car!
They blatantly have...! Although the Boxter does fill a valid niche. The Cayman blocks a gap that seemingly did not really exist. What next...? The 3.5 litre Boxman with LSD but only 75% throttle opening available so it doesn't outgun the 997...? Crazy IMHO...
>> Edited by roop on Monday 21st November 00:08
roop said:
We have had complaints of cars being built by bean counters before but this one has definitely been built by the mareketing department. Imaging how pissed off you would be as lead designer on the car. Produce a cracker of a motor (ok, it looks crap) only to be told it's too good so detune it and replace high performance bits with shit parts so it's a bit faster than a Boxter but not as fast as a 911. Pah. Shame.
Hello Roop - how's you? Long time, no speak
I think you're spot on between the marketeers and the designers. I'm sure many many heated debates went on behind closed doors. However, one thing most people seem to have overlooked is that the marketing department at Porsche are good. Very very good. Good enough to steer the company from near disaster to a highly profitable outfit by just these sort of tactics.
When the company first produced the Boxster everyone was up in arms sayin this isn't hat Porsche do, but it allowed them to sell a high volume... which allowed them to stay in business and continue the 911 development. Same with the Cayenne.
The thing is there is a very definite gap between the Boxster and the 911. A gap that I, Mr. Pikey, fit perfectly into! For example, I really like the Boxster, but I don't think its *that* much more of a car than my S2000. I really like the 911, but at £60,000 starting its too much money for me. What I would really like is something in between, and thank you Mr.Porker, you've given me such a machine!
I suspect Porsche have known this for quite some time. And I suspect that they always knew that if they built such a thing it would be likely to be quicker than a 911 (due to not being disadvantaged by the rear engine), but so what - Porsche had a gap. Not their fault if they can only fill it with genius?!
Look at the power too... 295bhp from a 3.4 Variocam? The tuning industry is already rubbing its hands!! Porsche marketing say that it has 30% Boxster components, 50% 911 components and 20% bespoke. For example the engine has the block of a Boxster and head of the 911. No doubt its a weird animal, but I think it'll be a winner.
I think its fantastic (though not from Clarkson's review last night). I can't comment on souless or rubbishy brakes as I've not driven it, but the many other reviewers seem to disagree.
Didn't like the review, but I have a big thumbs up to Porsche for this one!
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