I want to race - What now..
Discussion
I want to race cars. Simple. Fast.
I dont profess to be the best peddler on the road, but i'm pretty competent, and unfortunately rather sensible thus my hankering for two wheeling round bends needs to be dealt with on track. How do I get better, and up to a proper standard, and how do I get into racing.. Not porkers mind.. anything..
How do you start the ball rolling, or do you have to know people who know people..
And can you do it on a relatively limited budget - should i start hill climbing first, can i race without a full on team, etc etc.
I looked at the cars in the classifieds, can you only race in like-for-like series, or are there handicap type events?
I've written this with a pretty blank mind so any advice would be fanstastic.
I dont profess to be the best peddler on the road, but i'm pretty competent, and unfortunately rather sensible thus my hankering for two wheeling round bends needs to be dealt with on track. How do I get better, and up to a proper standard, and how do I get into racing.. Not porkers mind.. anything..
How do you start the ball rolling, or do you have to know people who know people..
And can you do it on a relatively limited budget - should i start hill climbing first, can i race without a full on team, etc etc.
I looked at the cars in the classifieds, can you only race in like-for-like series, or are there handicap type events?
I've written this with a pretty blank mind so any advice would be fanstastic.
Guess you'd not been getting the evo mags with the different types of motorsport in each month then? it wasnt mega comprehensive but did give a few good pointers on a differnt type each month.
There are a massive number of types of racing you could get involved in, all depends on yr budget, type of car you want to race etc etc.
ps go to the Autosport show in Jan
>> Edited by iguana on Sunday 18th December 12:01
There are a massive number of types of racing you could get involved in, all depends on yr budget, type of car you want to race etc etc.
ps go to the Autosport show in Jan
>> Edited by iguana on Sunday 18th December 12:01
Its all bloody expensive unless you can spanner for yourself. There is the SELOC BMW series which I know some people in, but think its full this year (racing old 320s).
Presumably you've done a decent number of track days etc, so have a reasonable idea of how to drive on track?
Another options to start would be silverstone race school. They can sort you out for your ARDS and teach some skills. Pricey, but so is everything related to racing.
I've got some friends who arrive and drive in formula renault. Forgotten what the price was, but it wasn't cheap!
pps- check out the motorsport forum
zillions of usefull sites out there for you, heres a couple to be getiing on with-
www.750mc.co.uk
http://eerc.co.uk/cms/news.php
www.porscheracingdrivers.co.uk/links/links.html
www.barc.net/champ.htm
http://zebra.usp.net/bmrc/clubsall.cfm?club=BRSCC
>> Edited by iguana on Sunday 18th December 12:41
zillions of usefull sites out there for you, heres a couple to be getiing on with-
www.750mc.co.uk
http://eerc.co.uk/cms/news.php
www.porscheracingdrivers.co.uk/links/links.html
www.barc.net/champ.htm
http://zebra.usp.net/bmrc/clubsall.cfm?club=BRSCC
>> Edited by iguana on Sunday 18th December 12:41
I would suggest circuit racing rather than sprints / hill climbs. You get more time on the track and build up slowly over a race rather than going balls out for 60 seconds up a hill. You also get to experience corners several times in succession. You fellow competitors will also spur you on and give you a visual benchmark on which to judge yourself, if you are slow one one particular section of the circuit you`ll know about it and can work on your weaknesses.
A lot of people are put off by the thought of accident damage from contact with other cars, I think you`re more likely to hit the scenery on a hill climb. In around 50 hours of competetive racing this year our car has needed one wheel changed through contact.
henry
A lot of people are put off by the thought of accident damage from contact with other cars, I think you`re more likely to hit the scenery on a hill climb. In around 50 hours of competetive racing this year our car has needed one wheel changed through contact.
henry
Don't do anything until you have had good race instruction. Motor racing is expensive and nothing is for nothing. I had a works drive in FF1600. The paying driver in the team paid 150K. My drive was a bargain at 30K......(!)
Some idea of cost. FF1600, 100 - 150K (plus accidents and car). British GTs 100K for 2nd driver. FIA GT 250k - 1 million (on invite)
Try the uniroyal challenge (beetle silluette). Great racing, lots of track time and you can share the costs with a second driver. Look at 10k per driver per year if you run yourself and 15k for the car.
Good luck
Steve R
Some idea of cost. FF1600, 100 - 150K (plus accidents and car). British GTs 100K for 2nd driver. FIA GT 250k - 1 million (on invite)
Try the uniroyal challenge (beetle silluette). Great racing, lots of track time and you can share the costs with a second driver. Look at 10k per driver per year if you run yourself and 15k for the car.
Good luck
Steve R
I've raced for five years now and done some track days also:
** Costs:
These needn't be huge. It completely depends what sort of car you race and which championship you race in. Entry fees can vary between £100 and £400 a meeting, which higher level races being even higher than that. If it is just you racing, and not a team providing support, then you might want to look at a championship where everyone else runs their own cars as well. This is good for team spirit and moral, but also means that you won't pay out loads of cash just to try and keep up.
I typically spend about £2-3k every year on race entry, B&Bs, spares etc. It was more last year because my engine went pop...
The costs also depend on what car you race:
** Cars:
This can make a lot of difference to costs! Ask yourself the following questions:
How easy is the car to work on? Does the bodywork come off in ten second leaving access to basic and simple oily bits?
How fun and satisfying is the car to drive? This makes a big difference. I had to go FWD due to various reasons, but much prefer RWD on track.
How much will fixing it cost? I race an MG Metro, but it is a Metro only in shell, wheels and basic suspension design. If my engine goes pop, it is a full race spec one that costs a lot to fix; same for lots of other parts on the car. It actually costs me more to run than a Caterham would... Also, look at the cost of parts if you want to race something like a Radical..
Do you have the time? I probably spend 20 weekends a year working on the car in order to stay competitive. Great if you like that sort of thing, not so good if you don't. Your choice of car will affect the time needed greatly.
How safe is the car? Open wheelers can be a bit dangerous, as can some classics. Do look into this.
** The championship
Try and get an idea of how long they'll be around for. You don't want to buy a car that becomes obsolete within two years.
Remember - you don't have to do every race in a year. I can't afford to, so I normally pick 4 or 5 and do those.
** Club atmosphere
This makes a big difference. In the Metro Cup, if I break down, other drivers and their friends will push me back through the paddock, and even offer to fix my car. People will always be about to lend you bits and bobs, and also free at weekends if you want to see how bits on their car go together. We also have a brilliant dinner dance in November every year. A weekend's racing is a social event as well as a racing event. Without wishing to be snobby or classist, also look at the type of people you will be racing with - they vary a lot between championships...
** Driving Standards
Some racing can get a bit argy bargy. Look out for this. It'll annoy you, and also dent your budget.
My last piece of advice is DO IT
It is great fun and far more satisfying than tootling round the road at 50mph!
Championships to look at:
Caterhams: lots of options here, and a very friendly crowd with good factory backing.
Ginettas: big grids and close racing. Cars are relatively cheap and easy to work on.
Porsche 924: very slow cars - but very friendly and good fun racing.
MG Metro Cup: I do this, so I've got to give it a mention. Don't laugh at the idea of a Metro until you've seen me drift around Coram at 90mph...
** Costs:
These needn't be huge. It completely depends what sort of car you race and which championship you race in. Entry fees can vary between £100 and £400 a meeting, which higher level races being even higher than that. If it is just you racing, and not a team providing support, then you might want to look at a championship where everyone else runs their own cars as well. This is good for team spirit and moral, but also means that you won't pay out loads of cash just to try and keep up.
I typically spend about £2-3k every year on race entry, B&Bs, spares etc. It was more last year because my engine went pop...
The costs also depend on what car you race:
** Cars:
This can make a lot of difference to costs! Ask yourself the following questions:
How easy is the car to work on? Does the bodywork come off in ten second leaving access to basic and simple oily bits?
How fun and satisfying is the car to drive? This makes a big difference. I had to go FWD due to various reasons, but much prefer RWD on track.
How much will fixing it cost? I race an MG Metro, but it is a Metro only in shell, wheels and basic suspension design. If my engine goes pop, it is a full race spec one that costs a lot to fix; same for lots of other parts on the car. It actually costs me more to run than a Caterham would... Also, look at the cost of parts if you want to race something like a Radical..
Do you have the time? I probably spend 20 weekends a year working on the car in order to stay competitive. Great if you like that sort of thing, not so good if you don't. Your choice of car will affect the time needed greatly.
How safe is the car? Open wheelers can be a bit dangerous, as can some classics. Do look into this.
** The championship
Try and get an idea of how long they'll be around for. You don't want to buy a car that becomes obsolete within two years.
Remember - you don't have to do every race in a year. I can't afford to, so I normally pick 4 or 5 and do those.
** Club atmosphere
This makes a big difference. In the Metro Cup, if I break down, other drivers and their friends will push me back through the paddock, and even offer to fix my car. People will always be about to lend you bits and bobs, and also free at weekends if you want to see how bits on their car go together. We also have a brilliant dinner dance in November every year. A weekend's racing is a social event as well as a racing event. Without wishing to be snobby or classist, also look at the type of people you will be racing with - they vary a lot between championships...
** Driving Standards
Some racing can get a bit argy bargy. Look out for this. It'll annoy you, and also dent your budget.
My last piece of advice is DO IT
It is great fun and far more satisfying than tootling round the road at 50mph! Championships to look at:
Caterhams: lots of options here, and a very friendly crowd with good factory backing.
Ginettas: big grids and close racing. Cars are relatively cheap and easy to work on.
Porsche 924: very slow cars - but very friendly and good fun racing.
MG Metro Cup: I do this, so I've got to give it a mention. Don't laugh at the idea of a Metro until you've seen me drift around Coram at 90mph...
I suggest you start by investing time and money on driver training on track days. I don't know hw much track experience you have so far, but it is a significant step up from road driving in terms of adrenalin levels and concentration.
Assuming you want to take it any further, I suggest you try a few sprints as your next step. You can do this in your road car, you will be competing against other similar cars and you will find everyone there very sociable and supportive. This is one of the few types of motorsport where you can realistically drive there, have a day of fun and drive home, in an ordinary road car with no special preparation. Pick the right venue and it can be quite safe, it is possible to get insurance cover although it can be quite exensive. A sprint will typically cost around £100 plus petrol and food money. At sprints it's basically you against the clock, no worries about other people barging you off. In some ways it's more technically demanding than racing as time lost can never be recovered, your goal is to get the whole run as fast as possible rather than just to cross the line in front of the other guy. Nobody would suggest this has the same intensity as racing, but racing requires a far greater investment in time and money.I think many sprinters secretly aspire to be racing drivers if they could afford it, if you get the bug you can always 'move up' to proper racing.
Assuming you want to take it any further, I suggest you try a few sprints as your next step. You can do this in your road car, you will be competing against other similar cars and you will find everyone there very sociable and supportive. This is one of the few types of motorsport where you can realistically drive there, have a day of fun and drive home, in an ordinary road car with no special preparation. Pick the right venue and it can be quite safe, it is possible to get insurance cover although it can be quite exensive. A sprint will typically cost around £100 plus petrol and food money. At sprints it's basically you against the clock, no worries about other people barging you off. In some ways it's more technically demanding than racing as time lost can never be recovered, your goal is to get the whole run as fast as possible rather than just to cross the line in front of the other guy. Nobody would suggest this has the same intensity as racing, but racing requires a far greater investment in time and money.I think many sprinters secretly aspire to be racing drivers if they could afford it, if you get the bug you can always 'move up' to proper racing.
steve rance said:
Don't do anything until you have had good race instruction.
Seconded! From my point of view the instruction I got was invaluable, and probably saved me from entering into an unsuitable championship.
There are so many different series out there it is important that you have somebody give an unbiased opinion of your driving, and of your potential progress. In my case, I was coached, from the start, by Simon Mason (www.simonmason.com) who often posts on PH.
Find yourself a good coach who will get you through your ARDS test and then give you a few options on the type of series you can enter.
Set a budget and stick to it, and don't assume that all entry level club series are cheap - when 16-year-old kids are spending over £75k a year for T-Cars you soon realise that it all comes down to how much of the folding stuff you are prepared to depart with...
But, it's the BEST thing you will ever do!
With regard to instruction, I would say that it is very useful, but not essential. For me, a good in-depth knowledge of the theory (never underestimate the importance of this - don't just go on hearsay - buy lots of books and videos and get studying!), some karting, plus awareness of the balance of my car as I was driving round legally and safely on the roads was good enough for me to get me started in racing.
I've had some instruction since I started, but to be honest 95% of my pace comes from knowledge of the theory and practise - lots of it!
I would *certainly* reccomend instruction if you can afford it, but if you have the right attitude (i.e. calm and intelligent) and you don't get a buzz/excited/silly from driving fast, then it enables you to sit back and analyse what's going on and makes suitable changes to your technique accordingly.
If you can afford instruction, then by all means go for it - it will help a lot (but make completely sure it is someone good - instructors vary A LOT). I would reccomend returning to instruction after your first full season though, because a lot of being a novice is about getting used to the unusual driving environment, the nerves etc etc.
One piece of advice that I will give is to start slow and build it up. You will end up a better driver, and won't go through as many cars in the process! You might like to consider some test days prior to your first race to get familiar with the environment etc.
I've had some instruction since I started, but to be honest 95% of my pace comes from knowledge of the theory and practise - lots of it!
I would *certainly* reccomend instruction if you can afford it, but if you have the right attitude (i.e. calm and intelligent) and you don't get a buzz/excited/silly from driving fast, then it enables you to sit back and analyse what's going on and makes suitable changes to your technique accordingly.
If you can afford instruction, then by all means go for it - it will help a lot (but make completely sure it is someone good - instructors vary A LOT). I would reccomend returning to instruction after your first full season though, because a lot of being a novice is about getting used to the unusual driving environment, the nerves etc etc.
One piece of advice that I will give is to start slow and build it up. You will end up a better driver, and won't go through as many cars in the process! You might like to consider some test days prior to your first race to get familiar with the environment etc.
RobM77 said:
I've raced for five years now and done some track days also:
** Costs:
These needn't be huge. It completely depends what sort of car you race and which championship you race in. Entry fees can vary between £100 and £400 a meeting, which higher level races being even higher than that. If it is just you racing, and not a team providing support, then you might want to look at a championship where everyone else runs their own cars as well. This is good for team spirit and moral, but also means that you won't pay out loads of cash just to try and keep up.
I typically spend about £2-3k every year on race entry, B&Bs, spares etc. It was more last year because my engine went pop...
The costs also depend on what car you race:
** Cars:
This can make a lot of difference to costs! Ask yourself the following questions:
How easy is the car to work on? Does the bodywork come off in ten second leaving access to basic and simple oily bits?
How fun and satisfying is the car to drive? This makes a big difference. I had to go FWD due to various reasons, but much prefer RWD on track.
How much will fixing it cost? I race an MG Metro, but it is a Metro only in shell, wheels and basic suspension design. If my engine goes pop, it is a full race spec one that costs a lot to fix; same for lots of other parts on the car. It actually costs me more to run than a Caterham would... Also, look at the cost of parts if you want to race something like a Radical..
Do you have the time? I probably spend 20 weekends a year working on the car in order to stay competitive. Great if you like that sort of thing, not so good if you don't. Your choice of car will affect the time needed greatly.
How safe is the car? Open wheelers can be a bit dangerous, as can some classics. Do look into this.
** The championship
Try and get an idea of how long they'll be around for. You don't want to buy a car that becomes obsolete within two years.
Remember - you don't have to do every race in a year. I can't afford to, so I normally pick 4 or 5 and do those.
** Club atmosphere
This makes a big difference. In the Metro Cup, if I break down, other drivers and their friends will push me back through the paddock, and even offer to fix my car. People will always be about to lend you bits and bobs, and also free at weekends if you want to see how bits on their car go together. We also have a brilliant dinner dance in November every year. A weekend's racing is a social event as well as a racing event. Without wishing to be snobby or classist, also look at the type of people you will be racing with - they vary a lot between championships...
** Driving Standards
Some racing can get a bit argy bargy. Look out for this. It'll annoy you, and also dent your budget.
My last piece of advice is DO IT
Championships to look at:
Caterhams: lots of options here, and a very friendly crowd with good factory backing.
Ginettas: big grids and close racing. Cars are relatively cheap and easy to work on.
Porsche 924: very slow cars - but very friendly and good fun racing.
MG Metro Cup: I do this, so I've got to give it a mention. Don't laugh at the idea of a Metro until you've seen me drift around Coram at 90mph...
Thats cheap racing.
Steve R
Yes It is often proper wheel to wheel stuff at places like Silverstone, Donington, Castle Combe, Brands Hatch etc.
One thing to remember is that a race tuned car will blow away all your road car based mis-conceptions of a car. For instance, my racing Metro handles better than any other FWD car I've driven, and is actually equal round a track to an Impreza or Elise.
It is often proper wheel to wheel stuff at places like Silverstone, Donington, Castle Combe, Brands Hatch etc. One thing to remember is that a race tuned car will blow away all your road car based mis-conceptions of a car. For instance, my racing Metro handles better than any other FWD car I've driven, and is actually equal round a track to an Impreza or Elise.
As posted before www.porscheracingdrivers.co.uk (the websitre for the porsche 924 championship) has a page that outlines costing for a seasons racing, it really can be done on a small budget. There is also a good, if small, drivers forum on there where all sorts of technical questions are asked. The 924's are also one of the only budget rear wheel drive series.
I raced with the 924's for 2 years and had a blast, only giving up due to a new member of the family, and I will be back. Found the other drivers to be top chaps, with BBQ's and a few bevvies had at each meet.
Go for it.
Cheers
I raced with the 924's for 2 years and had a blast, only giving up due to a new member of the family, and I will be back. Found the other drivers to be top chaps, with BBQ's and a few bevvies had at each meet.
Go for it.
Cheers
Yes, I can vouch for that. I've been at meetings with the 924s and they've always had some great races and seem very friendly in the paddock.
Racing doesn't have to be super expensive. Also, if you've the slightest bit of competition inside you (which most blokes have), racing is fantastic. Compare knocking a ball against a wall with a full on game of squash - that's track days compared to racing!
Racing doesn't have to be super expensive. Also, if you've the slightest bit of competition inside you (which most blokes have), racing is fantastic. Compare knocking a ball against a wall with a full on game of squash - that's track days compared to racing!
this is non-porsche but for cheap racing have a look at
the Milltek Sport BMW Challenge
www.selocmotorsport.com/
the Milltek Sport BMW Challenge
www.selocmotorsport.com/
Said it before and I'll say it again
If you don't have a competition licience you can't go far wrong with the Caterham Academy. Great cars to drive - it allows you to learn with other novice drivers - Caterham really look after you and you get to keep a road going car at the end of the season !
www.caterhamracing.com/championships/academy/index.htm
re ginettas - I wouldn't bother with it - unless all your are interested is a bit of fun - otherwise you'll spend a fortune on engine mods/tuning - effectively there isn't any regulations with engine mods - so the sky's the limit !
>> Edited by woof on Monday 19th December 17:44
If you don't have a competition licience you can't go far wrong with the Caterham Academy. Great cars to drive - it allows you to learn with other novice drivers - Caterham really look after you and you get to keep a road going car at the end of the season !
www.caterhamracing.com/championships/academy/index.htm
re ginettas - I wouldn't bother with it - unless all your are interested is a bit of fun - otherwise you'll spend a fortune on engine mods/tuning - effectively there isn't any regulations with engine mods - so the sky's the limit !
>> Edited by woof on Monday 19th December 17:44
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