997 Carrera 2S test drive - impressions
Discussion
Model: 2005 Carrera 2S, Manual, 10,200 miles
Options: -20mm Sports Suspension with LSD, Quick Shift gear change, Chrono, Sports Exhaust, Adaptive Sports Seats, 3 Spoke steering wheel, 19" wheels, Ceramic brakes
My most note worthy motoring history: BMW E30 325i with race suspension used for track days, occasional drives in friends 993 Carrera 2
I have had limited time in 911s, but my impressions inside a 1968 SWB being driven hard around a track, a drive in a 1977 3.0L 2WD and a few drives and rides in a 1994 993 Carrara 2 have all left deep impressions on me. My next car will be a 911.
My girlfriend and I were offered a drive in the 997 version of the 911 at the weekend. I was particularly interested in the model listed above as it had the limited slip differential which I will not live without.
You all know what they look like - good lookers, but they really need dark colours and wheels that fill the arches. The car I drove had 19" wheels with the rubber-band tyres but the offsets were wrong and they just looked stupid and didn't promise a good ride.
Starting the engine - rattles to start off with, but calms down when warm. The quick shift gear change was notchy. Clutch was heavy. Steering felt normal, direct, very feelsome and very nice to hold - thin rim, size of wheel not too big - excellent. The slow speed ride was not too bad - pliant, but firm. At speed, the ride was more acceptable still and yet giving minimal pitch, dive, roll. The front doesn't bounce around anything like as much as the older cars, yet, the steering was chattering away to me which was lovely. The brakes was awesome. I don't mean their strength, although that was great, I mean the feel. Goodness me, even small short braking was the most feelsome I have experienced, which again, was lovely. The quick shift gear change was not getting much less notchy when warm, which was surprising. Given the shift was very short, I wouldn't bother with this option.
The Chrono packages offers a Sport mode with a button which loosens the traction control, makes the sports exhaust go louder and supposedly makes the engine rev quicker. I say supposedly because I couldn't detect any difference. This was disappointing because a quick reving engine would be fun. The noise from the exhaust in Sport mode was a bit louder and I'm afraid to report was a bit crash/naff. The sound of the exhaust in Normal quiet mode was excellent though and quite loud enough. The Chrono option is another I wouldn't bother with then. The Adaptive Sports Seats are best you can order with shoulder support and electric everything, but the shoulder support was a joke as my shoulders went way past them (I'm an athletic build 6'1.5"
and offered little support. The bottom half of my body was held in place nicely though. I would look for a Recaro leather seat with proper shoulder support in the same leather as rest of car.
The noise level was borderline acceptable. I probably could live with it, but my girlfriend thought it would be too tiring. I should say I'm a little picky with noise levels, so maybe you would be fine with it. The salesman says the Sports Suspension is slightly noisier than the standard PASM cars - maybe the active suspension soaks up more vibrations? To me, it sounded mostly tyre noise, with no wind noise.
The engine was good, nice sounding and very fast. But even in Sport mode, the adjustability of the balance of the car on the bends was dispappointing. It felt on/off'ish and not very delicate. maybe at revs higher than 3500, the engine would have been more playful/controllable.
The ride was actually a good compromise. I drove over a bumpy B road and normal roads and was happy with the body control and pliancy. But I would still ditch the stupid 19" wheels and get 18" or 17" with offsets that fill the arches. I reckon 205s at the front and 225 tyres at the rear would make the car more lively, playful and quieter.
During the drive, there was an annoying squeaking coming from the dash. I located it to the plastic pinnacle holding the speedo etc. Also, when stepping out of the car, I noticed the drivers side indicator hanging off the car! Shutting the door was a far cry from the 993 air tight THUD, but it was acceptable.
I can't convince the girlfriend to go for this car. Salesman wants us to try a normal C2S with PASM as he thinks the noise will be more acceptable to her and that I won't even notice the lack of a LSD, even on a track. He thinks computers braking wheels and controlling traction will be just as fun. I am not convinced, but will attempt to convince my girlfriend to try again.
My other option is to go down the more sporty route and get a 964 RS with which is light, has a strong quick reving engine, LSD, proper seats. Simply trailor the car to tracks when she is with me.
A 993 will be road noiser and slower than a 997 and will not have a LSD.
What do you reccommend guys?
Options: -20mm Sports Suspension with LSD, Quick Shift gear change, Chrono, Sports Exhaust, Adaptive Sports Seats, 3 Spoke steering wheel, 19" wheels, Ceramic brakes
My most note worthy motoring history: BMW E30 325i with race suspension used for track days, occasional drives in friends 993 Carrera 2
I have had limited time in 911s, but my impressions inside a 1968 SWB being driven hard around a track, a drive in a 1977 3.0L 2WD and a few drives and rides in a 1994 993 Carrara 2 have all left deep impressions on me. My next car will be a 911.
My girlfriend and I were offered a drive in the 997 version of the 911 at the weekend. I was particularly interested in the model listed above as it had the limited slip differential which I will not live without.
You all know what they look like - good lookers, but they really need dark colours and wheels that fill the arches. The car I drove had 19" wheels with the rubber-band tyres but the offsets were wrong and they just looked stupid and didn't promise a good ride.
Starting the engine - rattles to start off with, but calms down when warm. The quick shift gear change was notchy. Clutch was heavy. Steering felt normal, direct, very feelsome and very nice to hold - thin rim, size of wheel not too big - excellent. The slow speed ride was not too bad - pliant, but firm. At speed, the ride was more acceptable still and yet giving minimal pitch, dive, roll. The front doesn't bounce around anything like as much as the older cars, yet, the steering was chattering away to me which was lovely. The brakes was awesome. I don't mean their strength, although that was great, I mean the feel. Goodness me, even small short braking was the most feelsome I have experienced, which again, was lovely. The quick shift gear change was not getting much less notchy when warm, which was surprising. Given the shift was very short, I wouldn't bother with this option.
The Chrono packages offers a Sport mode with a button which loosens the traction control, makes the sports exhaust go louder and supposedly makes the engine rev quicker. I say supposedly because I couldn't detect any difference. This was disappointing because a quick reving engine would be fun. The noise from the exhaust in Sport mode was a bit louder and I'm afraid to report was a bit crash/naff. The sound of the exhaust in Normal quiet mode was excellent though and quite loud enough. The Chrono option is another I wouldn't bother with then. The Adaptive Sports Seats are best you can order with shoulder support and electric everything, but the shoulder support was a joke as my shoulders went way past them (I'm an athletic build 6'1.5"
and offered little support. The bottom half of my body was held in place nicely though. I would look for a Recaro leather seat with proper shoulder support in the same leather as rest of car. The noise level was borderline acceptable. I probably could live with it, but my girlfriend thought it would be too tiring. I should say I'm a little picky with noise levels, so maybe you would be fine with it. The salesman says the Sports Suspension is slightly noisier than the standard PASM cars - maybe the active suspension soaks up more vibrations? To me, it sounded mostly tyre noise, with no wind noise.
The engine was good, nice sounding and very fast. But even in Sport mode, the adjustability of the balance of the car on the bends was dispappointing. It felt on/off'ish and not very delicate. maybe at revs higher than 3500, the engine would have been more playful/controllable.
The ride was actually a good compromise. I drove over a bumpy B road and normal roads and was happy with the body control and pliancy. But I would still ditch the stupid 19" wheels and get 18" or 17" with offsets that fill the arches. I reckon 205s at the front and 225 tyres at the rear would make the car more lively, playful and quieter.
During the drive, there was an annoying squeaking coming from the dash. I located it to the plastic pinnacle holding the speedo etc. Also, when stepping out of the car, I noticed the drivers side indicator hanging off the car! Shutting the door was a far cry from the 993 air tight THUD, but it was acceptable.
I can't convince the girlfriend to go for this car. Salesman wants us to try a normal C2S with PASM as he thinks the noise will be more acceptable to her and that I won't even notice the lack of a LSD, even on a track. He thinks computers braking wheels and controlling traction will be just as fun. I am not convinced, but will attempt to convince my girlfriend to try again.
My other option is to go down the more sporty route and get a 964 RS with which is light, has a strong quick reving engine, LSD, proper seats. Simply trailor the car to tracks when she is with me.
A 993 will be road noiser and slower than a 997 and will not have a LSD.
What do you reccommend guys?
What do you want to use the car for primarily ? If you want a car to use on track get a 964 RS, it's built for the job and will be sooooooo much more fun to drive than a 997 (irrespective of what options the 997 may or may not have)
You say however, you are fussy when it comes to noise issues, if you want the car for road and expect it to be quiet and comfortable for your "other half" you will be wasting your time even considering a 964 RS.
Whilst they are more responsive than any other 911 (IMHO) they are not in the least bit refined (I've owned 3)
You say however, you are fussy when it comes to noise issues, if you want the car for road and expect it to be quiet and comfortable for your "other half" you will be wasting your time even considering a 964 RS.
Whilst they are more responsive than any other 911 (IMHO) they are not in the least bit refined (I've owned 3)
A Turbo is out of the question for me. I prefer the purity of the two rear wheels being driven via a normally aspirated engine.
The girlfriend IS important when the car was to do the job going on the main journeys eg, trip to Beligium, France etc. No, I am not consulted when it comes to purchases of handbags, thank goodness!
When I say I am picky with regards to noise, I mean in a car when doing the main journeys. I will just put in some ear plugs if the car is noisy - but have you ever suggested to your girlfriend she put in ear plugs? It's quite a memorable experience, I can tell you! The idea of the 964RS is that it's a purer experience and isn't trying to be all things to all men and hence SHOULD be a better drive. Putting the RS on a trailor to Spa would be okay because the girlfriend would be in a quiet comfortable car towing the trailor.
So the 964RS is the best option it would appear... or is it?!
The girlfriend IS important when the car was to do the job going on the main journeys eg, trip to Beligium, France etc. No, I am not consulted when it comes to purchases of handbags, thank goodness!
When I say I am picky with regards to noise, I mean in a car when doing the main journeys. I will just put in some ear plugs if the car is noisy - but have you ever suggested to your girlfriend she put in ear plugs? It's quite a memorable experience, I can tell you! The idea of the 964RS is that it's a purer experience and isn't trying to be all things to all men and hence SHOULD be a better drive. Putting the RS on a trailor to Spa would be okay because the girlfriend would be in a quiet comfortable car towing the trailor.
So the 964RS is the best option it would appear... or is it?!
I personally found the 997C2S to be very quite and refined, coming from a 993. What car do you both use at the moment? What will this replace.
If the 997C2S is borderline noisy, then frankly no 996/993/964 or earlier is going to be any use to you... Try a stanard 997 on 18" wheels, can't remember the specs, but the tyres must be more narrow.
Else, perhaps try an M3 or something?
If the 997C2S is borderline noisy, then frankly no 996/993/964 or earlier is going to be any use to you... Try a stanard 997 on 18" wheels, can't remember the specs, but the tyres must be more narrow.
Else, perhaps try an M3 or something?
I have a 997S with -20mm and had to put a Tubi on it to get the noise up to an acceptable level 
The PASM car will be exactly the same noise wise and the lack of LSD means it is nowhere near as much fun on track. your salesman knows bugger all about track driving.
As for someones suggestion of a GT3 they must be having a laugh as your girlfriend thinks a 997 is noisy.
The PASM car will be exactly the same noise wise and the lack of LSD means it is nowhere near as much fun on track. your salesman knows bugger all about track driving.
As for someones suggestion of a GT3 they must be having a laugh as your girlfriend thinks a 997 is noisy.
MadKipper said:
A Turbo is out of the question for me. I prefer the purity of the two rear wheels being driven via a normally aspirated engine.
:chuccle : not heard that sort of term used for a long time, in a galaxy far, far away....
Purity? The tt is an evil beast thats for sure but also has 4 wheel drive. - go on have a drive. you know you want to. i bet you will like the wickedness of it.
Its only more power and is delivered in a very nice way but I have to admit, may well corrupt you.
(are you sure you could tell the difference between a twin turbo as the tt is and say and similar norm asp engine of the same BHP and torque?) agree with the others, ignor the girlfriend.
Get a 996tt...gt3 is good, but on the road just feels quick coz its all over the place...m3csl is just as good if you want a supposed road going track car and £25k cheaper.As ive said before on this forum 996tt will leave gt3,csl or even a gt2 for dead cross country in 90% of normal Uk road conditions with its torque and grip.If a 996tt is a lardbucket it doesnt say much for a c4s.....
jjr1 said:
The Turbo is a big lard bucket for drag racing and nothing else. If the guy is into -20mm and lsd on a 997 he is hardly going to like a big heavy understeery pig of a car that lacks any finesse on track.
...er, never dragged raced my 993tt but have been held up by various guises of 996 non-tt (inc GT3) cars round real roads in the mountains and hills in Austria and Germany.
jjr1 said:
The Turbo is a big lard bucket for drag racing and nothing else. If the guy is into -20mm and lsd on a 997 he is hardly going to like a big heavy understeery pig of a car that lacks any finesse on track.
Nice bait, that'll get'em going.
knew 993TT would be along soon to defend the tt's honour
Hi Mad Kipper - remember your posts featuring the famed 325 on the easytrack forum , even shared the track with you at Oulton in previous years. I dont know if you are seriously in the market for a 997 2S , thats a 60k+ deal. The bad news is that even spending that money you cannot cover all the bases with a single car if you want every day useability and comfort , plus ability to be a hardcore track warrior with all the strain that this puts on brakes , suspension , tyres etc.
If you can satisfy the urge to own a hardcore 911 by running a second car , IMHO that car has to be the iconic 964RS. You get turbo ABS brakes, LSD , blueprinted engine that can be extended to 320 from the base 260 HP , loads of 'feel', zero depreciation . Budget 30k for a LHD and have it maintained by a specialist - not an OPC. If you are not already a member of PCGB then join , just to visit the forum and get the mag , both places offer opportunity to buy a car.
For the first car ,the everyday car , to keep it 100% Porsche you could pay a further 30k for a very comfortable ( by comparison ) later 911 - the 996 - they are plentiful , they run well , people don't want 'em so they are affordable. However you might be better off just getting a pre-owned BMW or Audi or VW 'sensible saloon' as the primary everyday car.....not that I'm biased to German autos
If you can satisfy the urge to own a hardcore 911 by running a second car , IMHO that car has to be the iconic 964RS. You get turbo ABS brakes, LSD , blueprinted engine that can be extended to 320 from the base 260 HP , loads of 'feel', zero depreciation . Budget 30k for a LHD and have it maintained by a specialist - not an OPC. If you are not already a member of PCGB then join , just to visit the forum and get the mag , both places offer opportunity to buy a car.
For the first car ,the everyday car , to keep it 100% Porsche you could pay a further 30k for a very comfortable ( by comparison ) later 911 - the 996 - they are plentiful , they run well , people don't want 'em so they are affordable. However you might be better off just getting a pre-owned BMW or Audi or VW 'sensible saloon' as the primary everyday car.....not that I'm biased to German autos
bumcrack said:
The Turbo is a big lard bucket for drag racing and nothing else. If the guy is into -20mm and lsd on a 997 he is hardly going to like a big heavy understeery pig of a car that lacks any finesse on track.
Nice bait, that'll get'em going.
knew 993TT would be along soon to defend the tt's honour
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