964 Turbo, anyone owned one or have advice to offer?
Discussion
Hi, i've decided its finally time to own the 911 i've always wanted. I've scouted a couple of cars and i'm going to arrange to view one particular car in the next couple of weeks. Its a LHD car for a reasonable price, not the exact colour that i was looking for but it seems to have a good history and is from a specialist who offer a 12month warranty. I'm aware that servicing costs will be approx £600 a go which isnt too much of a biggie, i'm expecting running costs to be at least £1k a year.
The car in question has covered around 85,000 miles, pretty reasonable for a 13 year old car i think. What's really concerning me though is what sort of bills can i expect as the car approaches the 100k mark? Is it engine rebuild time? Time for a new turbo? Gearbox rebuild? Basically i'm trying to find out what to budget for to sober me up a little before getting too carried away when i go to view the car.
Any advice appriciated!
Nic
The car in question has covered around 85,000 miles, pretty reasonable for a 13 year old car i think. What's really concerning me though is what sort of bills can i expect as the car approaches the 100k mark? Is it engine rebuild time? Time for a new turbo? Gearbox rebuild? Basically i'm trying to find out what to budget for to sober me up a little before getting too carried away when i go to view the car.
Any advice appriciated!
Nic
Think you've got me slightly wrong there, i was specifically looking for a black car with black leather, 2nd choice was midnight blue with silver being the outside choice. While in an ideal world i'll find the right car but sometimes you've got to compromise the colour for spec/condition which i'm prepared to do. Suppose you have to when looking for 2nd hand motors!
As for servicing costs, i've had a good look round and know roughly what to expect for servicing costs, the question if i haven't explained it clearly is what to expect as the car reaches the 100,000mile mark, ie, engine rebuild.
Nic
As for servicing costs, i've had a good look round and know roughly what to expect for servicing costs, the question if i haven't explained it clearly is what to expect as the car reaches the 100,000mile mark, ie, engine rebuild.
Nic
The silver car at Gmund ? I'd ring around a few independants (JZ Machtech, Ninemeister,PCT, Jaz etc) and discuss their thoughts before leaping in personally. Does the history show recent clutch, top end rebuild, front wishbone bushes, brake discs/pads etc, if not have a leakdown test done on the engine, check the brakes thoroughly,see what the clutch pedal feels like (and also check its bite point) and then negotiate the price accordingly.
I had a 964 turbo lhd,this car left me with mixed feelings,it done some things very well others very average for a Porsche of this age.Good points Looks,Power,Handling,Brakes.The bad points are k Jetronic fueling,mechanical boost control,also I felt 5th gear could have been geared a little closer to 4th seems like a gap the K jet causes hot,cold start problems and is not good on fuel even off boost,also the k jet makes the acelerator not as precise as say a car with Motronic also the boost can vary due to no electronic control.Mine averaged 10-13mpg when driven spirited.The jerky K jet made fast bends more difficult.Very Strong Engine though stronger than 993tt internals Gearbox and clutch very good.993TT much better 996tt better still imho.If you find a well looked after car the running cost away from petrol won't be to bad but try and find out with a nice dry engine and all the mechanics in good order most of the 965 turbo wear & tear parts ie brakes,clutch,exhaust,rear tyres are different to the main stream 964's so spare part prices are a fair bit higher.If you like a raw drive and are not worried about refinement of fueling/throttle control then this car is a Classic.P.s 996tt is the next upgrade once my '96 993tt is sold.
I think you'll be lucky to run one for 600 GBP a year, or even 1k a year. Normal C2s can cost that, and the turbos are more complicated and trouble-prone. I'd guess 2k would be nearer the mark, assuming you own it for a couple of years and underake preventative work rather than leave it for the next owner.
Also, I'd avoid choosing a car of this age and type on colour combination... choose the best one for your budget, full stop. Even if it is aubergine metallic with an amethyst interior, piped brown, with yellow dials.
Also, I'd avoid choosing a car of this age and type on colour combination... choose the best one for your budget, full stop. Even if it is aubergine metallic with an amethyst interior, piped brown, with yellow dials.
My memory of standard 964 servicing was that you'd be VERY LUCKY to escape a service at £600. Unless the car you are buying is really well sorted of course. If not, every service there will be 1 or 2 'little' things, like a caliper refurb, or front wishbones, or dampers or .....
Nice cars though.
Nice cars though.
domster said:
I think you'll be lucky to run one for 600 GBP a year, or even 1k a year. Normal C2s can cost that, and the turbos are more complicated and trouble-prone. I'd guess 2k would be nearer the mark, assuming you own it for a couple of years and underake preventative work rather than leave it for the next owner.
Also, I'd avoid choosing a car of this age and type on colour combination... choose the best one for your budget, full stop. Even if it is aubergine metallic with an amethyst interior, piped brown, with yellow dials.
As i said earlier, i'm expecting running costs of at least £1k a year, that being the minimum amount i would need to spend if nothing goes wrong. £2k a year is still fine, i spend more than that much maintaining my current cars before the odd tweak!
Dam, I never thought I would see this, someone wants to buy a 964 Turbo and he is being persuaded not to buy it 
My advice to you would be if its a car you really like then do as much home work as possible before you part with any money Porsche inspection a must check the 964 forums eg rennlist, porsche club GB etc for advice. Good luck hope it works out.
Alex
My advice to you would be if its a car you really like then do as much home work as possible before you part with any money Porsche inspection a must check the 964 forums eg rennlist, porsche club GB etc for advice. Good luck hope it works out. Alex
A 965 is a great Fun car. I.e. one you don't need, but use to put a smile on your face. You'll need min £1000 a year for service, assuming nothing material needs replacing. Like all porka's of this age if you get a bad one it will bite. Mine has given me endless fun and continues to do so. In gear acceleration is blinding, as is the fuel 'ecconomy'...
al_gray said:
Dam, I never thought I would see this, someone wants to buy a 964 Turbo and he is being persuaded not to buy it
Alex
He is not being persuaded not to buy it. He is having his expectations realigned... talk of 600 GBP a year running costs was unrealistic, even if that was at the bottom of Nic's scale (as Nic concedes). I like, have driven and came close to buying a 965. But they have their downsides (running costs, complication), as well as their upsides (looks, flooring it in 3rd gear!).
I once fell in love with a Lotus Carlton. 7k running costs and 12 months later and I was less happy with it. There is more chance of a 965 costing a lot to run than a 993C2 or Boxster for similar money. If you can live with that fact, then go for it and have some fun away from the crowd.
Forums offer realism as well as cynicsm and dark humour. I bought a Lotus Carlton after having been warned of the running costs. If you want something enough you'll do it anyway, but have your eyes open.
domster said:
Dam, I never thought I would see this, someone wants to buy a 964 Turbo and he is being persuaded not to buy it
Alex
He is not being persuaded not to buy it. He is having his expectations realigned... talk of 600 GBP a year running costs was unrealistic, even if that was at the bottom of Nic's scale (as Nic concedes). I like, have driven and came close to buying a 965. But they have their downsides (running costs, complication), as well as their upsides (looks, flooring it in 3rd gear!).
I once fell in love with a Lotus Carlton. 7k running costs and 12 months later and I was less happy with it. There is more chance of a 965 costing a lot to run than a 993C2 or Boxster for similar money. If you can live with that fact, then go for it and have some fun away from the crowd.
Forums offer realism as well as cynicsm and dark humour. I bought a Lotus Carlton after having been warned of the running costs. If you want something enough you'll do it anyway, but have your eyes open.
I hear what you are saying, but is the 965 really that bad ?, all older porsches will have issues imho no car is perfect and sometimes you will encounter a very bad apple in the range, i.e. 996 owners who have had numerous rms issues, that does make 996 a bad car or 993 with valve guide issues a bad car.
Sometimes it depends on where you are in the chain, I'm sure you've heard owners saying "never having to spend a penny on car for repairs", but I'm pretty sure that next owner in the chain will. And as you say it always good to keep your eyes open.
Alex
You can only speak generally; that is half the problem. For example, some mates with Lotus Carltons never had a problem and ran them for peanuts. The majority, however, fell foul of its inherent failings and paid the price.
UV and turbobloke both have lovely 965 3.3s that I've been lucky enough to experience in some form or another; the 3.3 is an immensely tunable engine and the 965 feels 'proper quick'. However, I know of a few 3.3s that have cost a fortune to run and have had problems. The bills weren't Fiesta small, either. Steve Sutcliffe ran one in Autocar and it cost him 14k in a year, from memory!
Turbo cars tend to be more highly strung and complicated. Any turbo car is 'likely' to cost more to run than a normally aspirated equivalent. Ignition and fuelling have to be perfect. When the turbos spool up the compression ratio within the engine can effectively double in milliseconds... the ignition/fuelling has to be ready for it and able to cope. They also suffer from oil leaks more readily, due to the extra oil lines, turbo/wastegate wear issues can cause problems in themselves. An old turbo car (like the 965) may have oil seal issues simply because the rubber perishes.
Generally, an old Porsche turbo will be a 'riskier, more expensive' car to run. However, the fun and enjoyment could make it palatable
UV and turbobloke both have lovely 965 3.3s that I've been lucky enough to experience in some form or another; the 3.3 is an immensely tunable engine and the 965 feels 'proper quick'. However, I know of a few 3.3s that have cost a fortune to run and have had problems. The bills weren't Fiesta small, either. Steve Sutcliffe ran one in Autocar and it cost him 14k in a year, from memory!
Turbo cars tend to be more highly strung and complicated. Any turbo car is 'likely' to cost more to run than a normally aspirated equivalent. Ignition and fuelling have to be perfect. When the turbos spool up the compression ratio within the engine can effectively double in milliseconds... the ignition/fuelling has to be ready for it and able to cope. They also suffer from oil leaks more readily, due to the extra oil lines, turbo/wastegate wear issues can cause problems in themselves. An old turbo car (like the 965) may have oil seal issues simply because the rubber perishes.
Generally, an old Porsche turbo will be a 'riskier, more expensive' car to run. However, the fun and enjoyment could make it palatable
. I should add that figures like the 14k Autocar spend were 'first year' costs sorting out problems that may have been already in existence. If you buy a good one and keep it for longer then a couple of k a year should be more like it, as UV says. In fact, my Lotus Carlton apparently ran like a dream and at low cost after my costly ownership experience.
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