GT3's can't corner !
Discussion
Discuss !
But before you do take a look at this http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc
>> Edited by jjr1 on Saturday 18th February 00:03
But before you do take a look at this http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc
>> Edited by jjr1 on Saturday 18th February 00:03
). Back end pendulums. The end.I would say GT3's CAN in fact corner but made the mistakes mentioned. A spectator even indicates "brake brake" as if he's going to fast.
However, as a novice I find over correction such an easy mistake to make. Does it just take calm and patience to not turn the wheel so much? There is always the excitement and "video game" reaction to just lob on a bunch of opposite lock/steer. You must also really have to know your car's steering ratio. It's kind of like correcting for understeer with opposite lock (am I using the term "lock" correctly because you are not turning the wheel all the way it will go) rather than turning more and or hitting the brakes (snow driving-and the sick feeling of going straight).
Driving is a real craft. A real challenge.
However, as a novice I find over correction such an easy mistake to make. Does it just take calm and patience to not turn the wheel so much? There is always the excitement and "video game" reaction to just lob on a bunch of opposite lock/steer. You must also really have to know your car's steering ratio. It's kind of like correcting for understeer with opposite lock (am I using the term "lock" correctly because you are not turning the wheel all the way it will go) rather than turning more and or hitting the brakes (snow driving-and the sick feeling of going straight).
Driving is a real craft. A real challenge.
Christ. Only at the Ring do you get punters walking around in the middle of the track after accidents. When I drove the Ring last year I didn't like this at all. Typically you go flying over a blind crest and someone comes walking towards you down the middle of the track waving his hands above his head just like that guy that clip. Honestly.
Blimey!
I thought the GT3 was unlucky to roll...it also looked like there would be surprisingly little damage. He finally went over at a comically low speed...and didn't whack the barrier from what I could see?
Shame. Nice car. The bloke almost got away with it too...the mistake was made in the approach speed. But better correction would have saved the roll and, quite possibly, the trip to the gravel trap.
I don't think I'd have been quite so "brave" on the way in to that one...
I thought the GT3 was unlucky to roll...it also looked like there would be surprisingly little damage. He finally went over at a comically low speed...and didn't whack the barrier from what I could see?
Shame. Nice car. The bloke almost got away with it too...the mistake was made in the approach speed. But better correction would have saved the roll and, quite possibly, the trip to the gravel trap.
I don't think I'd have been quite so "brave" on the way in to that one...
We can see why he's had the off....according to you guys he's lifted the throttle AND overcorrected - fine
(btw - that's SUCH an instinctive thing to do; to keep the throttle applied and dial in only a small amount of counter steering lock feels TOTALLY counter-intuitive when you start to get out of shape. The absolutely first thing a normal driver tends to do is come off the throttle and zip the steering back round... by then it's all over anyway - dear oh dear I need some advanced instruction)
Having said that -I can't see why he got out of shape in the first place - I don't think it's about braking etc... it looks like plain old momentum oversteer from a very pointy front end setup or worn rear tyres.
I also think that oversteer on the way into a corner is the scariest thing in the world and I'm glad for the bit of understeer that's inherently built into a 911.
(btw - that's SUCH an instinctive thing to do; to keep the throttle applied and dial in only a small amount of counter steering lock feels TOTALLY counter-intuitive when you start to get out of shape. The absolutely first thing a normal driver tends to do is come off the throttle and zip the steering back round... by then it's all over anyway - dear oh dear I need some advanced instruction)
Having said that -I can't see why he got out of shape in the first place - I don't think it's about braking etc... it looks like plain old momentum oversteer from a very pointy front end setup or worn rear tyres.
I also think that oversteer on the way into a corner is the scariest thing in the world and I'm glad for the bit of understeer that's inherently built into a 911.
murcielago_boy said:
We can see why he's had the off....according to you guys he's lifted the throttle AND overcorrected - fine
(btw - that's SUCH an instinctive thing to do; to keep the throttle applied and dial in only a small amount of counter steering lock feels TOTALLY counter-intuitive when you start to get out of shape. The absolutely first thing a normal driver tends to do is come off the throttle and zip the steering back round... by then it's all over anyway - dear oh dear I need some advanced instruction)
Agreed. Imho, that's why a well driven 911 still commands respect when on the ragged edge. It also makes it the most awesome driving experience when you do get it "right" according to 911-rules
The fact is he was carrying way too much corner speed for his/car/tyres ability... there is a jump (nasty drop!) just before you turn in which you need to apply some braking before you hit it and enter the corner, hit the apex and apply the power.
If you don't brake at that point you either a) brake during the corner, which is going to get you in the kitty litter or b) do what this guy did and .. WHOOPS!
I am no expert but having stood in the spot where the filming was done on our trip for a good hour or so, I watched the experts do it perfectly!
If you don't brake at that point you either a) brake during the corner, which is going to get you in the kitty litter or b) do what this guy did and .. WHOOPS!
I am no expert but having stood in the spot where the filming was done on our trip for a good hour or so, I watched the experts do it perfectly!
Definitely driver error imo.
Look at the direction in which the front wheels track.
Maybe over-harsh application of the throttle to initiate the tail slide ?
I can't see any early steering correction, and the problem with late and excessive correction is that this heps the spin.
He had plenty of space on the track which he simply didn't use ...
Any other thoughts ?
Look at the direction in which the front wheels track.
Maybe over-harsh application of the throttle to initiate the tail slide ?
I can't see any early steering correction, and the problem with late and excessive correction is that this heps the spin.
He had plenty of space on the track which he simply didn't use ...
Any other thoughts ?
Impressed by the reaction of the mark 1 Golf driver..first locks his brakes mid-corner without loosing it to slow down, then immediately asists the hapless GT3 (look?) novice. Having found myself upside down on occasion in rally cars, it's always good to see some feet..rather than wheels, approaching.
It looks as if he turned in hard with a trailing throttle, it doesn't look as if he was actually going too fast for the corner but from the trailing throttle I guess he thought he was. The trailing throttle made the car mildly unstable on the limit, he let it go quite a long way before correcting and then didn't take the correction off quickly enough (I'm not sure he took any opposite lock off at all) as the rear started to come back. Putting opposite lock on is pretty instinctive but taking it off is much harder, hence why so may rwd cars go off on the outside just after a bend. After provoking a slide through driver error, and failing to get it back under control, his third mistake was that he kept trying to drive through.
If you're in this situation it's pretty much a given that you are not in full control of the car. That being the case, it's far better to jump on the brakes rather than try to fight you way back into control through opposite lock etc. If you try to keep going you will have quite high lateral speeds and yaw rates, you won't lose much speed and you will travel a long way sideways and along the track while you're trying to regain control. Unless you're somewhere with a *lot* of run-off, the chances are good that you'll hit the scenery, and when you do you'll be carrying a lot of speed and probably spinning. Very easy to write a car off by bashing all four corners even at quite low speed.
On the other hand if you simply lock up all four wheels then you keep going in a straight line (maybe rotating slowly) scrubbing off speed rapidly. Unless the road is turning very sharply you'll probably stop before you hit the scenery and possibly before you even run out of tarmac. In any case if you do hit you will be travelling relatively slowly and not spinning.
Once you've lost it or think that there is a significant risk that you will lose it, standing firmly on the brakes is usually the best bet.
If you're in this situation it's pretty much a given that you are not in full control of the car. That being the case, it's far better to jump on the brakes rather than try to fight you way back into control through opposite lock etc. If you try to keep going you will have quite high lateral speeds and yaw rates, you won't lose much speed and you will travel a long way sideways and along the track while you're trying to regain control. Unless you're somewhere with a *lot* of run-off, the chances are good that you'll hit the scenery, and when you do you'll be carrying a lot of speed and probably spinning. Very easy to write a car off by bashing all four corners even at quite low speed.
On the other hand if you simply lock up all four wheels then you keep going in a straight line (maybe rotating slowly) scrubbing off speed rapidly. Unless the road is turning very sharply you'll probably stop before you hit the scenery and possibly before you even run out of tarmac. In any case if you do hit you will be travelling relatively slowly and not spinning.
Once you've lost it or think that there is a significant risk that you will lose it, standing firmly on the brakes is usually the best bet.
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