Beetle needs 2wd, I'm sure...I think?!
Discussion
Bloody hell these cars are frustrating.
I am caught in such an appalling crevice that no alternative remains but to consult my fellow pork scratchers in the temple of wisdom that is PH Oink Central.
Here's the situation.
It seems that the 993 4wd system is basically a bit girlie, not to mention sh1te. This is currently being discussed on Rennlist and confirms something serious Porsche cogmoscenti have always inferred and journos proclaimed: to wit, the universally accpted 'pure joy' of RS and GT models since what, 1973?
Although it can mince happily around with slightly camp variations on the factory's original power and torque outputs (although I recall never being entirely convinced by the 'feel' even 'oot the box), the torque tube and front diff seems fundamentally ill at ease with the monumental torque globbage being demanded of it.
Techies the world over have thrown their spanners on the floor in collective submission and there seems only one, to some, dramatic sounding, solution.
Ditch the 4wd and embrace the purity - not to mention bracken and other assorted wild flora - that high powered, rwd pigdom delivers.
Now, I approach this juncture with profound trepidation: as a certain Lizard pointed out only recently, it's one thing pootling with malice aforethought in a decently quick Catertin but they have less torque than a wiggleless worm - here, when the hammer is hurled, we're into serious blue touch paper territory.
And what I'm rather unsure of, is just what difference that hopeless but nevertheless existant viscously coupled 4wd system has in such moments of Kraken loosage?
Yes, the concept of a 996GT2 looms but just how tenable is the reality of a 2wd 993tt? There are plenty of takers stateside and a well known 'enthusiast' round these parts is apparently something of a zealous advocate of the approach but I want to know, just what would the reality be?
Bearing in mind, I'll happily trade a slightly (very slight
) portion of right foot for untrammelled, steering purity but I absolutely cannot sacrifice the addictive hammerblow of the car's current delivery.
Advice most welcome!
I am caught in such an appalling crevice that no alternative remains but to consult my fellow pork scratchers in the temple of wisdom that is PH Oink Central.
Here's the situation.
It seems that the 993 4wd system is basically a bit girlie, not to mention sh1te. This is currently being discussed on Rennlist and confirms something serious Porsche cogmoscenti have always inferred and journos proclaimed: to wit, the universally accpted 'pure joy' of RS and GT models since what, 1973?
Although it can mince happily around with slightly camp variations on the factory's original power and torque outputs (although I recall never being entirely convinced by the 'feel' even 'oot the box), the torque tube and front diff seems fundamentally ill at ease with the monumental torque globbage being demanded of it.
Techies the world over have thrown their spanners on the floor in collective submission and there seems only one, to some, dramatic sounding, solution.
Ditch the 4wd and embrace the purity - not to mention bracken and other assorted wild flora - that high powered, rwd pigdom delivers.
Now, I approach this juncture with profound trepidation: as a certain Lizard pointed out only recently, it's one thing pootling with malice aforethought in a decently quick Catertin but they have less torque than a wiggleless worm - here, when the hammer is hurled, we're into serious blue touch paper territory.
And what I'm rather unsure of, is just what difference that hopeless but nevertheless existant viscously coupled 4wd system has in such moments of Kraken loosage?
Yes, the concept of a 996GT2 looms but just how tenable is the reality of a 2wd 993tt? There are plenty of takers stateside and a well known 'enthusiast' round these parts is apparently something of a zealous advocate of the approach but I want to know, just what would the reality be?
Bearing in mind, I'll happily trade a slightly (very slight
) portion of right foot for untrammelled, steering purity but I absolutely cannot sacrifice the addictive hammerblow of the car's current delivery. Advice most welcome!
terrifying.DeR surely worth looking at the cost to change to the 996 GT2 ???
If you do convert the Beetle to 2wd, if you don't get on with it in it's latest guise; a; you will have spent more dough & b; you will make the car unsaleable.
Vics amazing blue 550 bhp Gt2 would be the answer in one....but surely a 996GT2 with it's tuning potential for the future and current 55-65k price tag looks hard to resist??
If you do convert the Beetle to 2wd, if you don't get on with it in it's latest guise; a; you will have spent more dough & b; you will make the car unsaleable.
Vics amazing blue 550 bhp Gt2 would be the answer in one....but surely a 996GT2 with it's tuning potential for the future and current 55-65k price tag looks hard to resist??
I'm not likely to ever get financially into 993GT2 league, so I've gone for next best - a standard 2wd 993 with supercharged engine.
The 2wd copes with the additional torque very very well, I absolutely love it and will be getting more power as and when possible!!
I say go for it DeR - obviously there's a difference between turbo torque delivery and supercharger torque delivery, and your turbo is fairly tweaked, but it will be a wild ride and no doubt highly exciting!
The question is however whether removing the 4wd system from the 993TT can also remove all the added mass (i.e. strip out the diffs, driveshafts etc.) without compromising the balance and handling - at the least you'd need to mess about with your suspension.
The 2wd copes with the additional torque very very well, I absolutely love it and will be getting more power as and when possible!!
I say go for it DeR - obviously there's a difference between turbo torque delivery and supercharger torque delivery, and your turbo is fairly tweaked, but it will be a wild ride and no doubt highly exciting!
The question is however whether removing the 4wd system from the 993TT can also remove all the added mass (i.e. strip out the diffs, driveshafts etc.) without compromising the balance and handling - at the least you'd need to mess about with your suspension.
Drive a 996GT2 as clubsport mentioned. If you prefer it, buy it. Don't bastardise one of the the fastest 993TT in the country by ripping the front drive train out. I'd also suggest deciding what you want, the ultimate road porsche or the ultimate track porsche? these two cars are two extremes, everything in between is a compromise.
DAZ
DAZ
silver993tt said:
It's a road car and the 4wd is fine. That's why Posrche mage the 993 GT2. Messing around removing the 4WD is very costly, will involve no R&D anywhere near the scale Porsche invested in the GT2.
Surely removing the 4WD can't be that difficult? Virtually everytime they go on a rolling road the front diff gets disconnected. You can keep the gearbox even if the output to the front isn't used. Hmmm.
The problem lies squarely with the inability of the front coupling to handle the grunt and by handle, I mean without excess vibration through both the wheel and pedals under certain loadings.
We thought the problem might be with the harmonic engine mounts and although solid motorsport ones have ameliorated some of the wilder effects of maximum torque application/dissipation via the front drive train, such is the splodge of torque that even urban driving, say from 50-80 on dc-ways at 2-3000 rpm, transmits way too much energy through the helm.
Now, if some kind of hyper material exists which might allow transfer of this grunt with minimal or no distortion, that would be worth looking at but that all seems a bit too speculative: the reversion to type is in principle non too duanting and several respected personnel have issued 'at least try it' type suggestions.
My provincial chum, Kaiser O'Donnell reckons the rwd 993tt is sublime and whilst respect must obviously be due, I'm not convinced that sustained development of the suspension set-up in such a car might not afford an incredibly satisfying hybrid experience.
Oddly enough, I'm looking at the complete reinstallation of the original interior in an attempt to utterly confuse the enemy: brutal, more brutal, probably but ever so slightly more refined, almost no serious track orientation but that difficult to achieve, as near as damnit perfect compromise.
Of course the 996 GT2 remains an option but I've invested so much emotion in das beetle that if it can be fully restored to the dark side, in full, glowing Sith glory, then it's iconic shape is something I have yet to tire of...but then a GT2 is hardly a pooch, right? Oh bollox!
Why couldn't I have taken up card making, instead?
We thought the problem might be with the harmonic engine mounts and although solid motorsport ones have ameliorated some of the wilder effects of maximum torque application/dissipation via the front drive train, such is the splodge of torque that even urban driving, say from 50-80 on dc-ways at 2-3000 rpm, transmits way too much energy through the helm.
Now, if some kind of hyper material exists which might allow transfer of this grunt with minimal or no distortion, that would be worth looking at but that all seems a bit too speculative: the reversion to type is in principle non too duanting and several respected personnel have issued 'at least try it' type suggestions.
My provincial chum, Kaiser O'Donnell reckons the rwd 993tt is sublime and whilst respect must obviously be due, I'm not convinced that sustained development of the suspension set-up in such a car might not afford an incredibly satisfying hybrid experience.
Oddly enough, I'm looking at the complete reinstallation of the original interior in an attempt to utterly confuse the enemy: brutal, more brutal, probably but ever so slightly more refined, almost no serious track orientation but that difficult to achieve, as near as damnit perfect compromise.
Of course the 996 GT2 remains an option but I've invested so much emotion in das beetle that if it can be fully restored to the dark side, in full, glowing Sith glory, then it's iconic shape is something I have yet to tire of...but then a GT2 is hardly a pooch, right? Oh bollox!
Why couldn't I have taken up card making, instead?
Good luck with the conversion then DeR
........are any odds quoted of you coming back and posting a similar question in a few months?.....You are putting up brave fight, resisting the dark side....sorry I meant a 911 with a watercooled engine.....somehow it just has a certain enivitability to it 
........are any odds quoted of you coming back and posting a similar question in a few months?.....You are putting up brave fight, resisting the dark side....sorry I meant a 911 with a watercooled engine.....somehow it just has a certain enivitability to it Don said:
DeR. Whilst Greg is quite right - that this is a somewhat unique idea and if you want to do it you probably should - I feel I must counsel looking into getting a 996GT2.
Why build a Widowmaker when you can buy one?
In Guard's Red.
Sir Don,
Apparently Joel will only let northern filth kangaroo around Slough in the beast I suspect you might be referring to?
I suspect I might find the better developed/resolved nature of the 996 GT2 hugely appealing despite it's reputation and it is certainly something my man is trying to arrange. However, this so comprehensively depends upon the reality of post-993 drive twiddling...
jeremyc said:
Well then, why don't you take a day orf from behind the counter and have a nice run dahn to Slau for a drive of said Guards Red car? And let us know when.
We want to come and watch and encourage.
DeR will really enjoy that part of the M25 near slough, a perfect place to test a Gt2...on occasion it has been known for the slow moving traffic to get close to the 40mph the speed cameras are often set at
See DeR another reccomendation for Vics car from RSR....I saw it pass 917's 962's & everything at brands last year
DeR,
The 2wd route for your car would create a quasi 993GT2 at a much lower cost given the price difference between a 993GT2 (£100k+) vs a modded 993TT (guess circa £40k-ish). It obviously would not be as 'pure' or allow you to join to the hallowed club of "I've got a proper GT2" members (hi JC).
Equally a 996GT2 is a good proposition, they definitely handle the power and are a more modern all-round car and certainly better for your daily use than a 993GT2 (real or converted 993TT). The power/torque you have now is but a chip/exhaust away. That said you would not be able to sit with those who view the 996 as 'water-damaged' and talk about the good old days of 993s, black and white televisions and food rationing anymore.
Guy
>> Edited by GuyR on Wednesday 1st March 13:57
The 2wd route for your car would create a quasi 993GT2 at a much lower cost given the price difference between a 993GT2 (£100k+) vs a modded 993TT (guess circa £40k-ish). It obviously would not be as 'pure' or allow you to join to the hallowed club of "I've got a proper GT2" members (hi JC
). Equally a 996GT2 is a good proposition, they definitely handle the power and are a more modern all-round car and certainly better for your daily use than a 993GT2 (real or converted 993TT). The power/torque you have now is but a chip/exhaust away. That said you would not be able to sit with those who view the 996 as 'water-damaged' and talk about the good old days of 993s, black and white televisions and food rationing anymore.
Guy
>> Edited by GuyR on Wednesday 1st March 13:57
John, Paul: appreciate the 'trackmeister' perspective but if anything, I'm looking to move away from the stripped out thing and if I was spending six figurinos in one hit, I'm afraid I would succumb to something Bolognese.
As for your "inevitability," Paul - we both know you are absolutely correct but that isn't going to stop one or two final flourishes in an attempt to nail the requisite automotive shadow.
Frankly, it's all Dom's fault, his talk some time ago of ultimate compromises, etc ignit a spark proving damn hard to snuff out!
The crazy thing, is that beneath all this, the beetle is just aching to put on a spike and invade something and I'd hate to think every eventuality hadn't been exhausted before the final act of heresy.
As for your "inevitability," Paul - we both know you are absolutely correct but that isn't going to stop one or two final flourishes in an attempt to nail the requisite automotive shadow.
Frankly, it's all Dom's fault, his talk some time ago of ultimate compromises, etc ignit a spark proving damn hard to snuff out!
The crazy thing, is that beneath all this, the beetle is just aching to put on a spike and invade something and I'd hate to think every eventuality hadn't been exhausted before the final act of heresy.
Jesting apart, the current prices of 993 GT2's versus 996 GT2's does make it questionable to spend an extra £50k plus for the former. The other advantage with a 996 GT2 is you will not have burberry capped yoofs asking you where you got your bodykit everytime you fill up with petrol.
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