Time to change the 996 - Turbo \ GT2 \ GT3 \ 997 ?
Discussion
So I've had the 996 C2 for two years now and am feeling the urge to change. Budget is between £45k and £60k. On the shortlist are:
996 Turbo
996 GT2
996 GT3
997 C2
Haven't driven any of them yet, so that's what I'm going to do this afternoon. In terms of driving, it will be used for weekend blats, 10 miles commute to the office each day and possibly 1 or 2 trackdays a year.
My head says the Turbo is probably the sensible option for what I want. My heart says GT2. GT3 may well have the strongest residuals over the next two years and I may find I prefer N/A power delivery. I've actually never driven a turbo car and have a feeling it may not suit me. Like the look of the 997 but my guess is it will suffer the worst on depreciation.
Would be very interested in anyones comments \ advice.
Cheers
996 Turbo
996 GT2
996 GT3
997 C2
Haven't driven any of them yet, so that's what I'm going to do this afternoon. In terms of driving, it will be used for weekend blats, 10 miles commute to the office each day and possibly 1 or 2 trackdays a year.
My head says the Turbo is probably the sensible option for what I want. My heart says GT2. GT3 may well have the strongest residuals over the next two years and I may find I prefer N/A power delivery. I've actually never driven a turbo car and have a feeling it may not suit me. Like the look of the 997 but my guess is it will suffer the worst on depreciation.
Would be very interested in anyones comments \ advice.
Cheers
What a choice you now have. Prices for 996 turbo and GT2 have fallen so much that they now represent a real bargain.
GT2 is great to drive, and stupidly fast, but no traction control so you'd need to be a great driver or very careful. Parts can also be expensive, especially pads for the ceramic discs - also dont crash one as they can take for ever to fix. Turbo isnt so satisfying on track, and has a less slick gearchange and softer suspension, but is easier to live with in the real world.
If you have never had a turbo, then that would make more sense as a GT2 could be too much of a step up. A turbo with a S conversion, or a chip to about 460bhp would be as quick as a GT2 anyway but with PSM it would be safer and easier to drive fast. I dont know what will happen long term to GT2 prices. They've fallen massively, as they were 120k new but now prices match the turbos. Prices for GT2 but must surely stabilise and possibly now be a better long term investment than a turbo - dont quote me.
GT3 are good, great for tracks but dont have anything like the surge of torque you'd get from a turbo, again they dont have PSM or traction control. So if you want a track car, probably youd have more fun in a GT3, but they are also a bit overpriced as there arent as many around as turbos. If its for track days, you can probably pick up an early GT3 in LHD for a lot less money.
If you do go for GT3 or GT2, you should get the club sport with the roll cage. There isnt much point in losing real world usability for having the better handling and power without the proper safety to go on a track.
GT2 is great to drive, and stupidly fast, but no traction control so you'd need to be a great driver or very careful. Parts can also be expensive, especially pads for the ceramic discs - also dont crash one as they can take for ever to fix. Turbo isnt so satisfying on track, and has a less slick gearchange and softer suspension, but is easier to live with in the real world.
If you have never had a turbo, then that would make more sense as a GT2 could be too much of a step up. A turbo with a S conversion, or a chip to about 460bhp would be as quick as a GT2 anyway but with PSM it would be safer and easier to drive fast. I dont know what will happen long term to GT2 prices. They've fallen massively, as they were 120k new but now prices match the turbos. Prices for GT2 but must surely stabilise and possibly now be a better long term investment than a turbo - dont quote me.
GT3 are good, great for tracks but dont have anything like the surge of torque you'd get from a turbo, again they dont have PSM or traction control. So if you want a track car, probably youd have more fun in a GT3, but they are also a bit overpriced as there arent as many around as turbos. If its for track days, you can probably pick up an early GT3 in LHD for a lot less money.
If you do go for GT3 or GT2, you should get the club sport with the roll cage. There isnt much point in losing real world usability for having the better handling and power without the proper safety to go on a track.
Ergie - thanks, some useful insights there. My gut feel is the Turbo will win the day unless I find the GT2 is something very special. I'm aware of its reputation as the 'widow maker' and whilst I definitely do not consider myself a driving god, I have a lot of experience with very fast bikes and know how to drive within my limits.
Right, I'm off to some test drives. Will report back on my findings...
Cheers
Right, I'm off to some test drives. Will report back on my findings...
Cheers
Turbo is the car to go for,if you are a biker you will know the frustrations of a less than perfect day..e.g rain,ice etc and crap british roads which stops you going quick(safely).Turbo has so little lag im not even convinced that the power delivery becomes an issue when considering whether to buy it or not.Gt3 more fun in perfect conditions but nowhere near as quick.
kayc said:
Turbo is the car to go for,if you are a biker you will know the frustrations of a less than perfect day..e.g rain,ice etc and crap british roads which stops you going quick(safely).Turbo has so little lag im not even convinced that the power delivery becomes an issue when considering whether to buy it or not.Gt3 more fun in perfect conditions but nowhere near as quick.
If you are a keen driver and know what you are doing get a GT3, they are quicker in capable hands. If you feel that you need the comfort and piece of mind of traction control, get a turbo, they are fantastic for providing accessible performance to the every day driver.
Steve R
I recently chopped in my 996C2 for a 997S (C2). Can recommend it , got same everyday driveabilty as the 996 , but has a Jekyll & Hyde nature . Supposedly pretty fast round the 'Ring , so should not be too embarassed on a trackday. I might take it to a trackday sometime but not while I run a 964RS for that purpose !
As for depreciation , probably same story as the 996 (ouch) but all part of the fun of running a watercooled Porsche
As for depreciation , probably same story as the 996 (ouch) but all part of the fun of running a watercooled Porsche
In reply to steve rance you are talking about track/or perfect conditions for a gt3 to be quicker than a turbo...i realise im not Shumacher however a 2 wheel drive Porsche with less power and grip on crap roads will get nowhere near a well sorted 4 wheel drive torquey car.im not saying a gt3 wont be more fun but if you want to be really challenged instead of actually going quick get a yamaha r1 in the pissing rain..it wont be quick but it sure will feel it...
kayc said:
In reply to steve rance you are talking about track/or perfect conditions for a gt3 to be quicker than a turbo...i realise im not Shumacher however a 2 wheel drive Porsche with less power and grip on crap roads will get nowhere near a well sorted 4 wheel drive torquey car.im not saying a gt3 wont be more fun but if you want to be really challenged instead of actually going quick get a yamaha r1 in the pissing rain..it wont be quick but it sure will feel it...
Hi Kevin
I've driven turbos and GT3's on the road and on the track. Unless the roads are covered with loose material, wet or very bumpy the GT3 will be quicker but a lot more work even in relatively capable hands. The point is that no driver should be in that zone on the road anyway. I love the TT, it is a great car. It all depends on the needs and abilities of the driver really..
kayc said:
Fair point steve but 90% of the time uk roads are either wet,covered in loose material, or bumpy therefore tt will be quicker..i loved my gt3 but it was very frustrating a lot of the time because of the aforementioned road conditions.
S'pose it depends on where you live, what you want from the car and how much work you want to do at the wheel really.. A driver wouldn't be dissapointed with either car.
steve rance said:
Fair point steve but 90% of the time uk roads are either wet,covered in loose material, or bumpy therefore tt will be quicker..i loved my gt3 but it was very frustrating a lot of the time because of the aforementioned road conditions.
S'pose it depends on where you live, what you want from the car and how much work you want to do at the wheel really.. A driver wouldn't be dissapointed with either car.
Good point`, I live in rural Suffolk and I`m surrounded in all directions by mostly single track poorly maintained tarmac roads and have to drive for at least three miles untill they improve, the gt3 was (imo) superb and great fun come rain or shine, the front lip was vulnerable as were the front brake cooler ducts, apart from these items no complaints, the 996 t shrugs off these poor roads and no damage to any appendages.
Having had both, for me at least, the turbo shades it. If I had S.R.`s talent, I suspect the gt3 would be my choice.
I think the key here is do you want to be able to do real world driving in all conditions with unbeatable cross country ability [then go for 996 turbo with X50 upgrade or chipped turbo), or do you want something which is more skittish on the roads that we have outside of the M25 but great on track and the Nurburgring then go GT2,GT3.
I went the X50 route having read up a lot (Autocar describes it as the fastest point to point car full stop and one which halves journey times and makes licence retention difficult). Admittedly I only had to choose between the 997 S the 996 tt and the 996 tt X50, as I wanted rear seats.
Forget official porsche figures, the 996 X50 is stonkingly quick from 50-120 and feels incredibly safe, thus avoiding unnecessary rash moments and allowing all gear flexibility.
I'll let you know how it is on track after Bedford on the 25th!! by which time you will probably have made up your own mind.
I went the X50 route having read up a lot (Autocar describes it as the fastest point to point car full stop and one which halves journey times and makes licence retention difficult). Admittedly I only had to choose between the 997 S the 996 tt and the 996 tt X50, as I wanted rear seats.
Forget official porsche figures, the 996 X50 is stonkingly quick from 50-120 and feels incredibly safe, thus avoiding unnecessary rash moments and allowing all gear flexibility.
I'll let you know how it is on track after Bedford on the 25th!! by which time you will probably have made up your own mind.
Thanks for all your comments guys, all very useful stuff.
So - firstly I have received the expected big depreciation hit on the C2, paid £40k for it 2 years ago, trade in value £25k. Could be a lot worse I guess.
Managed to drive a Turbo (non-x50) and GT3 today. Hopefully will get to the GT2 tomorrow and the 997 C2S at the weekend.
Turbo - as quick as I expected, confidence inspiring in terms of grip and poise. Really liked it but it didn't exactly move the earth for me. Don't get me wrong, it felt very quick, just not a quick as I was expecting. I guess after bikes no car will ever feel that quick unless your'e in Mclaren F1 teritory and I sure as sh*t will never have that sort of money to spend !! Overall still in the running but potentially not quite exciting enough for me.
GT3 (Mk2) - prefered the power delivery over the turbo and the noise :-). Much more involving to drive but I must admit the ride is very hard. Still in the running but given that I don't intend to do a lot of trackdays, something just doesn't feel right getting one.
Interestingly, my thought regarding 997 residuals being the worst of the bunch doesn't seem to be shared by the trade. The general consensus in terms of what will best hold its value over the next 3 years is; best to worst: GT2 - 997C2S - GT3 - Turbo. I was quite suprised by this.
Looking forward to the GT2 tomorrow :-)
So - firstly I have received the expected big depreciation hit on the C2, paid £40k for it 2 years ago, trade in value £25k. Could be a lot worse I guess.
Managed to drive a Turbo (non-x50) and GT3 today. Hopefully will get to the GT2 tomorrow and the 997 C2S at the weekend.
Turbo - as quick as I expected, confidence inspiring in terms of grip and poise. Really liked it but it didn't exactly move the earth for me. Don't get me wrong, it felt very quick, just not a quick as I was expecting. I guess after bikes no car will ever feel that quick unless your'e in Mclaren F1 teritory and I sure as sh*t will never have that sort of money to spend !! Overall still in the running but potentially not quite exciting enough for me.
GT3 (Mk2) - prefered the power delivery over the turbo and the noise :-). Much more involving to drive but I must admit the ride is very hard. Still in the running but given that I don't intend to do a lot of trackdays, something just doesn't feel right getting one.
Interestingly, my thought regarding 997 residuals being the worst of the bunch doesn't seem to be shared by the trade. The general consensus in terms of what will best hold its value over the next 3 years is; best to worst: GT2 - 997C2S - GT3 - Turbo. I was quite suprised by this.
Looking forward to the GT2 tomorrow :-)
Hi,
Just got back from my first spirited drive in my "new" GT3 Mk.1, which was delivered today.
All I can say is, as life affirming experiences go, they don't come much better.
It's not my daily driver, and I don't think it could ever sensibly qualify as one (that front spoiler- ouch!), but if you only do a 10 mile commute to work daily, and the rest is "fun time", why not?
I upgraded from an e46 M3, and had little prior experience in Porsches, hence my comments should be taken in context.
>> Edited by The Necessary on Wednesday 1st March 19:09
Just got back from my first spirited drive in my "new" GT3 Mk.1, which was delivered today.
All I can say is, as life affirming experiences go, they don't come much better.
It's not my daily driver, and I don't think it could ever sensibly qualify as one (that front spoiler- ouch!), but if you only do a 10 mile commute to work daily, and the rest is "fun time", why not?
I upgraded from an e46 M3, and had little prior experience in Porsches, hence my comments should be taken in context.
>> Edited by The Necessary on Wednesday 1st March 19:09
Can only speak for myself of course:
Wanted to buy a 997S at first, test drove one and liked it.
Yet, I decided (AGAINST the recommendation of the Porsche-
dealer - Guess why ? Spell "sell new car"
to give a 996TT a
chance.
First time in it, driven it, enjoyed it - MY CAR !
I do not CARE about the (debatable) better interior of the 997S
and the more up to date status.
I simply liked the sheer power of the TT. And I am not a good
enough driver to handle a GT, will probably never use a race
track but instead use the car as a daily driver. And let me tell
You: Our german autobahn can be some fun with this car...
Also, as it is 18 months old, it has already taken a deep
depreciaton (new price was EUR 142 thousands, bought it for a
"mere" EUR 90 thousands with 17 tkm on the clock).
Also, keep in mind that the TTs and GTs all use the old GT1
block, with which RMS leakage is NO issue.
Whatever You do: Enjoy Your car & take care !
Frank
Wanted to buy a 997S at first, test drove one and liked it.
Yet, I decided (AGAINST the recommendation of the Porsche-
dealer - Guess why ? Spell "sell new car"
to give a 996TT a chance.
First time in it, driven it, enjoyed it - MY CAR !
I do not CARE about the (debatable) better interior of the 997S
and the more up to date status.
I simply liked the sheer power of the TT. And I am not a good
enough driver to handle a GT, will probably never use a race
track but instead use the car as a daily driver. And let me tell
You: Our german autobahn can be some fun with this car...
Also, as it is 18 months old, it has already taken a deep
depreciaton (new price was EUR 142 thousands, bought it for a
"mere" EUR 90 thousands with 17 tkm on the clock).
Also, keep in mind that the TTs and GTs all use the old GT1
block, with which RMS leakage is NO issue.
Whatever You do: Enjoy Your car & take care !
Frank
r1_jon said:
Thanks for all your comments guys, all very useful stuff.
So - firstly I have received the expected big depreciation hit on the C2, paid £40k for it 2 years ago, trade in value £25k. Could be a lot worse I guess.
Managed to drive a Turbo (non-x50) and GT3 today. Hopefully will get to the GT2 tomorrow and the 997 C2S at the weekend.
Turbo - as quick as I expected, confidence inspiring in terms of grip and poise. Really liked it but it didn't exactly move the earth for me. Don't get me wrong, it felt very quick, just not a quick as I was expecting. I guess after bikes no car will ever feel that quick unless your'e in Mclaren F1 teritory and I sure as sh*t will never have that sort of money to spend !! Overall still in the running but potentially not quite exciting enough for me.
GT3 (Mk2) - prefered the power delivery over the turbo and the noise :-). Much more involving to drive but I must admit the ride is very hard. Still in the running but given that I don't intend to do a lot of trackdays, something just doesn't feel right getting one.
Interestingly, my thought regarding 997 residuals being the worst of the bunch doesn't seem to be shared by the trade. The general consensus in terms of what will best hold its value over the next 3 years is; best to worst: GT2 - 997C2S - GT3 - Turbo. I was quite suprised by this.
Looking forward to the GT2 tomorrow :-)
Good stuff, the GT2 will have a slightly softer ride than the GT3 and much more power than the Turbo, so it should be perfect for you, go drive it and then tell me you didn't fall in love...
GT2 all day long for me - all the other cars mentioned are in plentiful supply compared to the GT2 - if you don't take advantage of this opportunity, there may not be many around in the future. It's perfectly ok for everyday, kind of a cross between the TT and the GT3, can be very hairy with no PSM, but common sense is all that's needed. Having been a biker too then I doubt you'll be disappointed with the urge, and will have the neccessary brain cells to know the limits. It's an awesome experience - let us know your findings whenb you test drive......
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff