944 Turbo Cab on ebay
Discussion
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PORSCHE-944-TUR
What is the general consenses on this? I think the fact that its chipped has got to knock £4k off the selling price?
What is the general consenses on this? I think the fact that its chipped has got to knock £4k off the selling price?
Sure you can take a chip out but the wear and tear is done. I would not like to buy a car that was 'standard' after a chip had been removed. I would also be disappointed to learn it had been chipped after buying and this was not advertised at the time. The way I see it, the price of any chipped 944 always sells at a discount. This is purely based on me monitoring prices over the last 14 months. Yet to see a chipped 944 Turbo go for more than £7k. Chris
Scogue said:
Sure you can take a chip out but the wear and tear is done. I would not like to buy a car that was 'standard' after a chip had been removed.
you've clearly got a chip on your shoulder about something, but dunno what it is. go to the promaxmotorsport website and see what the chip does. It may alter the power curve a little, and it may increase top end revs by maybe 500rpm. thats about it. on its own it doesnt squeeze a helluva lot more out of the 944/968 engine, even promax only claim an extra 10-20bhp. most people get chips on 944 turbos and on 968s to smooth out the power delivery since both suffer a lag - the turbo for obvious reasons and the 968 because it has a definite "shelf" in the power curve with a big whallop after 4K rpm that some find a bit odd. either way I dont think there's much evidence that it would hugely increase wear and tear. If youre looking to find a reason to knock money off this car I'd look elsewhere - if I was the owner thats certainly where i'd tell you to go
cuneus said:
Promax Level 1
boost level from around 0.7-0.8 bar to 1.05 bar
Expect +35bhp and +50lbft torque
No rev increase
I think the worry about chipping stems from the FUD factor
There are no wear/reliability issues that are not present on the std car
quite right Mr C. I am thinking figures for the 968 with which i'm most familiar. either way, i think trying to argue down the price of a car based on excess wear from a promax chip being fitted is a non-starter
)
softinthehead said:
Sure you can take a chip out but the wear and tear is done. I would not like to buy a car that was 'standard' after a chip had been removed.
you've clearly got a chip on your shoulder about something, but dunno what it is. go to the promaxmotorsport website and see what the chip does. It may alter the power curve a little, and it may increase top end revs by maybe 500rpm. thats about it. on its own it doesnt squeeze a helluva lot more out of the 944/968 engine, even promax only claim an extra 10-20bhp. most people get chips on 944 turbos and on 968s to smooth out the power delivery since both suffer a lag - the turbo for obvious reasons and the 968 because it has a definite "shelf" in the power curve with a big whallop after 4K rpm that some find a bit odd. either way I dont think there's much evidence that it would hugely increase wear and tear. If youre looking to find a reason to knock money off this car I'd look elsewhere - if I was the owner thats certainly where i'd tell you to go
I would agree with scouge (chip = bad)
The Porsche 944 Turbo Cab is the car that is the subject of discussion. The car is as rare as hen's teeth and is therefore a diferent animal from the standard 944 T coupe.
The 944 is fast approaching 'classic' status (lets not debate this, i mean generally!) and the T Cab is the top of the tree.
As with any classic/prestige car, an unmolested example will fetch the highest price. T Cab are fast becoming the property of collectors, who want the original car. Its the originality/rarity that would give me the jolies if I was a (normal) collector!
As someone who has a few classics, that is just my opinion.
However, I do agree that the chip itself does not damage the engine or the car in the slightest and I think its a pity that the value suffers as a result of installing a well-regarded (internal) upgrade.
Thats my 20p. Applause?
no applause from me 
as already stated, the chip takes no time to fit and even less time to take out. anyone putting one in who has any sense will retain the original manufacturers chip too. so if you agree that no engine wear results (as you have stated you do) then the criticism that its not "original" is addressed in less time than it takes to fit on the tonneau cover.
as already stated, the chip takes no time to fit and even less time to take out. anyone putting one in who has any sense will retain the original manufacturers chip too. so if you agree that no engine wear results (as you have stated you do) then the criticism that its not "original" is addressed in less time than it takes to fit on the tonneau cover.
I have a 951 (944 turbo) with a boost enhancer which makes exactly 250bhp at the mo.
The power delivery is immense but there is a lag. I would imagine an n/a car would be less of a handful on twisty bits as you really need to anticipate the `rush`
When mapped in detail they are deficient and have lag and anomalies in fuel, ignition and power delivery although you will not notice it and even today some 18 years later in standard form they are still phenomenally quick and in the supercar league in performance and handling (look up 944 incremental gear times and cornering G)
The engines were detuned so as not to compete with 911`s of their day as they were quicker and handled better.
The `Promax` stage 1 only adds about 20-30 bhp. I understand that the engines are good for 400 bhp but at 300 bhp you need to ensure that the head gasket is uprated or it acts as a wastegate. It also makes the boost come in earlier and is therfore a more progressive power delivery. Note that these are 4 cylinder engines with only 8 valves!!
My point is that 1) these cars can have prodigious outputs well within design parameters so the chip is not an issue as these cars have intelligent monitoring that detect knock and cut fuel etc 2) All modern cars are designed for durability and not max performance which is why you can chip a new Porsche. Note that most cars come out of a factory way off optimum tune anyway.
The TYPE of chip you buy is the issue, also if your car is deficient in other areas it will show it (just like a track day) A chip is likely to do less damage to a car than a couple of flat out track laps
The power delivery is immense but there is a lag. I would imagine an n/a car would be less of a handful on twisty bits as you really need to anticipate the `rush`
When mapped in detail they are deficient and have lag and anomalies in fuel, ignition and power delivery although you will not notice it and even today some 18 years later in standard form they are still phenomenally quick and in the supercar league in performance and handling (look up 944 incremental gear times and cornering G)
The engines were detuned so as not to compete with 911`s of their day as they were quicker and handled better.
The `Promax` stage 1 only adds about 20-30 bhp. I understand that the engines are good for 400 bhp but at 300 bhp you need to ensure that the head gasket is uprated or it acts as a wastegate. It also makes the boost come in earlier and is therfore a more progressive power delivery. Note that these are 4 cylinder engines with only 8 valves!!
My point is that 1) these cars can have prodigious outputs well within design parameters so the chip is not an issue as these cars have intelligent monitoring that detect knock and cut fuel etc 2) All modern cars are designed for durability and not max performance which is why you can chip a new Porsche. Note that most cars come out of a factory way off optimum tune anyway.
The TYPE of chip you buy is the issue, also if your car is deficient in other areas it will show it (just like a track day) A chip is likely to do less damage to a car than a couple of flat out track laps
I struggled with my conscience a little when I advertised my otherwise completely standard, original low mileage garage queen of a 968 for sale last year - whether to mention the Promax chip or not. I did in the end, but it is doubtful whether the new owner would have known it was chipped anyway - the car would have just felt in top shape. The chip didn't affect the selling price of my car one bit. A good car is a good car, I don't think the presence of a chip should make any difference to what it is worth.
"but at 300 bhp you need to ensure that the head gasket is uprated or it acts as a wastegate"
An all too common misconception, providing the correct AFR is maintained
"the chip is not an issue as these cars have intelligent monitoring that detect knock and cut fuel etc"
On most chips the overboost protection is defeated.
An all too common misconception, providing the correct AFR is maintained
"the chip is not an issue as these cars have intelligent monitoring that detect knock and cut fuel etc"
On most chips the overboost protection is defeated.
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