Adjustable suspension on 993RS?
Discussion
Piers, yes fully adjustable..toe in/out on front and rear and camber adjustment. up to 5 different levels of firmness on front roll bar, 3 on rear.....front rear bias adjustment..etc...
With respect, if you don't know it is adjustable, then you are probably not the best person to play around with it?
I would suggest you take it to one of the decent independents and tell them what level of road/track bias you require. If you go over the top with track bias, be aware this will have a serious effect on the wear of part of your tyres along with sometimes severe tramlining on some roads.
I had mine done at Parr, heard ok things about JZ machtech and 9m oop north.
With respect, if you don't know it is adjustable, then you are probably not the best person to play around with it?
I would suggest you take it to one of the decent independents and tell them what level of road/track bias you require. If you go over the top with track bias, be aware this will have a serious effect on the wear of part of your tyres along with sometimes severe tramlining on some roads.
I had mine done at Parr, heard ok things about JZ machtech and 9m oop north.
piers for spa and the ring dry,rear roll bar full stiff and front in middle setting,see how it goes.Wet, rear bar disconect, one side and cable tie back, front full soft.Will then understeer nicely in the wet.
I would not bother changing the dampers or springs,they work very well standard,i have taken my jrz tripple adjustables off my car,works much better standard.After all it was designed to work together perfectly.
Good geom set up is vital,but will affect tyre wear.
Plenty of camber for spa,not so much for the ring,so a compromise is needed.
I would not bother changing the dampers or springs,they work very well standard,i have taken my jrz tripple adjustables off my car,works much better standard.After all it was designed to work together perfectly.
Good geom set up is vital,but will affect tyre wear.
Plenty of camber for spa,not so much for the ring,so a compromise is needed.
Ok I'll add my 2p worth to Paul and John's comments.
1. Agree with anti roll bar settings on std suspension - most tracks if they are dry I will run medium front full stiff on rear. In the wet I move the rear to full soft, as it is so easy, but don't bother changing the front as it needs a bit more time.
2. I replaced the Bilstein dampers with new ones last Feb - made a big difference. Shows they get tired after 9 years...
3. Picked up my RS from JZM this morning, new extra shiny Manthey suspension, drove the car to Snetterton today. Car handles beautifully. There is a difference between the Manthey KW suspension vs the standard Bilsteins, but it is not as marked as replacing old worn standard dampers with new standard ones. Sometime I will get round to selling the virtually new Bilstein dampers I have just taken off the car, as they have only done 5000 miles or so.
4. Interestingly Manthey recommend the second from softest anti roll setting at the front. Shame it is such a pig to change without jacking the car up.
Roll on the Ring in May...!
Z
1. Agree with anti roll bar settings on std suspension - most tracks if they are dry I will run medium front full stiff on rear. In the wet I move the rear to full soft, as it is so easy, but don't bother changing the front as it needs a bit more time.
2. I replaced the Bilstein dampers with new ones last Feb - made a big difference. Shows they get tired after 9 years...
3. Picked up my RS from JZM this morning, new extra shiny Manthey suspension, drove the car to Snetterton today. Car handles beautifully. There is a difference between the Manthey KW suspension vs the standard Bilsteins, but it is not as marked as replacing old worn standard dampers with new standard ones. Sometime I will get round to selling the virtually new Bilstein dampers I have just taken off the car, as they have only done 5000 miles or so.
4. Interestingly Manthey recommend the second from softest anti roll setting at the front. Shame it is such a pig to change without jacking the car up.
Roll on the Ring in May...!
Z
Zub, do your KW's have the extra reseviours? just curious as to what Manthey fit. I have just fitted the KW supplied kit to my 64RS. Interesting about the roll bar setting, I know a 64RS that's been set up by Manthey in the same way. I think the owner sometimes posts on here. It's a very quick ring toy.
>> Edited by lemon yella rs on Tuesday 28th March 07:51
>> Edited by lemon yella rs on Tuesday 28th March 07:51
I replaced my struts (front and rear) at 50,000 miles, and also renewed the steering rack dampers, it transformed the car, the rears didn't make such a noticeable difference, but the fronts transformed the car.
Previously the car bounced up and down over bumps with hardly any damping being felt. Once changed, you could feel the tyres were in contact with the road surface even when driven through bumpy corners at speed.
Definately worthwhile getting your steering rack dampers checked when changing your struts, (one of mine had failed and was allowing the toe to vary massively under heavy cornering loads)
Previously the car bounced up and down over bumps with hardly any damping being felt. Once changed, you could feel the tyres were in contact with the road surface even when driven through bumpy corners at speed.
Definately worthwhile getting your steering rack dampers checked when changing your struts, (one of mine had failed and was allowing the toe to vary massively under heavy cornering loads)
About £65 per side IIRC (plus the cost of re setting the tracking)
If you're using the car mainly on track you may find it worthwhile fitting the solid items used on the Cup cars (twice the price but no scope for failure IIRC, and will allow more kickback through the s/wheel)
Paul Howells on the 993 RS forum will be able to furnish you with further details if you're a PCGB member.
If you're using the car mainly on track you may find it worthwhile fitting the solid items used on the Cup cars (twice the price but no scope for failure IIRC, and will allow more kickback through the s/wheel)
Paul Howells on the 993 RS forum will be able to furnish you with further details if you're a PCGB member.
lemon yella rs said:
Zub, do your KW's have the extra reseviours? just curious as to what Manthey fit. I have just fitted the KW supplied kit to my 64RS. Interesting about the roll bar setting, I know a 64RS that's been set up by Manthey in the same way. I think the owner sometimes posts on here. It's a very quick ring toy.
>> Edited by lemon yella rs on Tuesday 28th March 07:51
No, they are "normal" dampers without the extra resevoirs.
I got clarification on the anti roll bar settings today, as I couldn't figure why they were on 2nd from softest at the front - in fact they are 2nd from full hard at the front - the manual was wrong.
John - got your email - I'll drop you a private mail.
Z
I have been running standard Bilsteins since day one and I have spent a lot of time achieving the perfect geometry compromise to give predictable handling in wet or dry on hillclimbs, sprints & trackdays with just about even tyre wear. I have also watched PH (Bergmeister) fiddle around with his JRZ's for a few years trying to find a better compromise before finally admitting defeat and reverting back to standard.
My take on all this is that I would rather have the car handle the same every time I drive it than have it adjustable and probably (like 50-1 certainty) drive it with less than ideal settings for the day.
So, given the way that our albeit more powerful than stock 993RS's powered past and outhandled all the GT3's at Oulton recently (save for the Cup car which ran on slicks whereas everyone else was on List 1B tyres), whilst a stiffer set up is useful for the dry track days, come a rainy day or hillclimb you will be fighting it all the way to keep it away from the kitty litter.
I concur though that new shocks are important, even if yours have only done 40k miles do consider replacing them.
If you really want to make an improvement consider the GT2 clubsport rear subframe mounts instead, aka a stiff axle kit.
My take on all this is that I would rather have the car handle the same every time I drive it than have it adjustable and probably (like 50-1 certainty) drive it with less than ideal settings for the day.
So, given the way that our albeit more powerful than stock 993RS's powered past and outhandled all the GT3's at Oulton recently (save for the Cup car which ran on slicks whereas everyone else was on List 1B tyres), whilst a stiffer set up is useful for the dry track days, come a rainy day or hillclimb you will be fighting it all the way to keep it away from the kitty litter.
I concur though that new shocks are important, even if yours have only done 40k miles do consider replacing them.
If you really want to make an improvement consider the GT2 clubsport rear subframe mounts instead, aka a stiff axle kit.
re the dampers, I put my standard rs dampers back on ,they had done about 30k miles, they are still good. New standard dampers will make a improvement for sure.
The problem with adjustable 3 way plus remotes, is the time to set them up, and to get the best advantage out of them, you have to adjust them to conditions. Best advantage was in the wet, where you can back them right off, great traction off the line and out of the corners etc.
Of course all this was for sprinting and hillclimbing,a lot of effort for a couple of mins run max!.
On a circuit where you can set up for conditions and track variation etc the jrz are superior to the stock dampers, just need to know what you are doing to adjust and set up correctly, otherwise grip and time will suffer.
A interesting point from many racers with adjustables ,they end up setting the dampers to very near or almost the same settings as stock cup or rs dampers are,and leave them at that set up ,unless wet. So save your money!
As Colin says ,the biggest improvement is the solid sub frame mounts, which are not only a solid mount, but also a spacer to alter the incline of the rear suspension as per gt2 and cup(993),it reduces bump steer / toe change through the travel of the suspension.
But for a road car, not really recommended, very noisy, and puts a lot of stress on the rear chassis leg/mounting. Watch out for hairline cracks around the mount. Many cup cars and gt2 racers cracked at the mounting!
As for roll bar settings,this should be a ball park setting and then adjusted to feel/taste,tyres etc.
JC whats the feedback on your new dampers and set up?
Zub sounds like you are happy with new set up etc.
The problem with adjustable 3 way plus remotes, is the time to set them up, and to get the best advantage out of them, you have to adjust them to conditions. Best advantage was in the wet, where you can back them right off, great traction off the line and out of the corners etc.
Of course all this was for sprinting and hillclimbing,a lot of effort for a couple of mins run max!.
On a circuit where you can set up for conditions and track variation etc the jrz are superior to the stock dampers, just need to know what you are doing to adjust and set up correctly, otherwise grip and time will suffer.
A interesting point from many racers with adjustables ,they end up setting the dampers to very near or almost the same settings as stock cup or rs dampers are,and leave them at that set up ,unless wet. So save your money!
As Colin says ,the biggest improvement is the solid sub frame mounts, which are not only a solid mount, but also a spacer to alter the incline of the rear suspension as per gt2 and cup(993),it reduces bump steer / toe change through the travel of the suspension.
But for a road car, not really recommended, very noisy, and puts a lot of stress on the rear chassis leg/mounting. Watch out for hairline cracks around the mount. Many cup cars and gt2 racers cracked at the mounting!
As for roll bar settings,this should be a ball park setting and then adjusted to feel/taste,tyres etc.
JC whats the feedback on your new dampers and set up?
Zub sounds like you are happy with new set up etc.
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