GT2 and ceramic v steel
Discussion
What is the ride comfort like and is the ride height lower in a GT2 compared with a turbo, is the GT2 as firm a ride as the GT3? Ceramic v Steel excuse me if i have missed this debate on another thtread but i thought the ceramic brakes were suposed to be the dogs bo*ll*cks just what is the problem with them. 
Where to start....... Ride height is much lower than a TT - I believe 30mm lower - the suspension is entirely different, and as such the GT2 does ride fairly harshly, but not unacceptably so. Cant comment on GT3 comparison, because I've not been in one for long enough. Ceramics were standard on all but the 1st few, which had the same calipers, but with steel discs. As has been debated many time, the ceramics are superb, but have come in for lots of criticsm for premature failure (they were meant to last circa 300k). They are VERY expensive to replace, and Porsche haven't been too forthcoming in settling warranty claims....! Hence why people opt for steel replacements, which are still very strong, and a fraction of the cost.
MButchers thanks for the reply, am i right in thinking if the calipers are the same if a ceramic disc fails you can then replace it with a steel disc changing the pads to a suitable type as well, also how are these ceramic discs failing and is it after heavy track use, are they fine for road use. Do you feel the GT2 is an out and out track car, my 993 rides on roock suspension and i feel it is a bit compromised for the road but the steering feel is fantastic. I supose i am answering my own question maybe the turbo is the car for me 
No worries - I am certain the calipers are the same - mine came with the steels, so cannot be 100%. I'm fairly sure that what you are assuming is correct. I've heard of ceramics failing after track sessions, things like gravel etc can cause the surface to start flaking and ultimately the discs to fail - For road use, they're meant to be fine, but I'm sure I shall be corrected on this.....
As for the car being too track focused - most certainly not. It is a very capable road car, although not as accomplished in adverse conditions as the TT. However, it will give you thrills like no other, and if it's for fun use (ie; not for everyday), then it is IMHO unsurpassed.
The suspension is totally adjustable - as standard the car is a little compromised, but a trip to a decent specialist will sort it nicely. The 04 model addressed this problem, and as such, is a more accessible car (apparently).
Get a drive in one - it's a totally different animal to the TT - much more focused, but make no mistake, it can be driven just as sedately...... Let us know....
>> Edited by mbutchers on Wednesday 29th March 19:17
As for the car being too track focused - most certainly not. It is a very capable road car, although not as accomplished in adverse conditions as the TT. However, it will give you thrills like no other, and if it's for fun use (ie; not for everyday), then it is IMHO unsurpassed.
The suspension is totally adjustable - as standard the car is a little compromised, but a trip to a decent specialist will sort it nicely. The 04 model addressed this problem, and as such, is a more accessible car (apparently).
Get a drive in one - it's a totally different animal to the TT - much more focused, but make no mistake, it can be driven just as sedately...... Let us know....
>> Edited by mbutchers on Wednesday 29th March 19:17
The ceramics failed on mine with minimum effort, they can certainly fail in aggressive road use. They fail because the coating that gives it a lovely smooth finish falls off and exposes the very rough fabric of the disk, this renders your pads which dont have a lot of meat anyway destined for a very short life, mine disappeared totally down to the metal on a track day resulting in total brake failure.
I changed to Alcons using a bell made by JZM its a slightly bigger disk. So you space the caliper up a few mm. I used the same pads and are proving brilliant. The rear disks are starting to go now and i will put the Alcon equivalent on as recommended by JZM.
In my opinion best buy a GT2 where someone has already converted to steel or put £2500 to one side to change.
My opinion is if you are doubtful about a Turbo or a GT2 you should buy the Turbo, when you have exhausted its potential, then go one to a GT2 if you want.
I changed to Alcons using a bell made by JZM its a slightly bigger disk. So you space the caliper up a few mm. I used the same pads and are proving brilliant. The rear disks are starting to go now and i will put the Alcon equivalent on as recommended by JZM.
In my opinion best buy a GT2 where someone has already converted to steel or put £2500 to one side to change.
My opinion is if you are doubtful about a Turbo or a GT2 you should buy the Turbo, when you have exhausted its potential, then go one to a GT2 if you want.
Thanks for the info mbutchers @ porsche4life i think i should try to find a good comfort spec GT2, hopefully they will not depreciate too much now and if i keep it well who knows? will they become as sought after as the 993 GT2. Your advice on the ceramics means i will not put a premium on a car with them on.
I know it was designed as a road car you can track, and as such the PCCB issue is very poor for a company tha prides itself on brake performance, but has anyone had PCCB failure on a car with zero track time and only spirited road driving (as opposed to continuous thrashing and heavy braking for a significant amount of time)
Does that black GT2 look good or what, thanks for the link slippydiff, did i read on another thread that you drove this car but thought the GT3 was the car for you, if so how did you compare GT2 with the GT3 ok the answer to that should prob be another topic but i would like to read your thoughts on the two, by what i can make out the GT2 is either a love or hate machine.
ok the answer to that should prob be another topic but i would like to read your thoughts on the two, by what i can make out the GT2 is either a love or hate machine.Boxin, I drove a Mk1 GT3, a M3 CSL and the GT2 as discussed, I think the fact I have purchased a MK1 GT3 speaks volumes !
There were the obvious financial implications in purchasing the GT2, but if I'd been really impressed with it as a car, I would have been prepared to make the financial leap to procure it.
A car to "love or hate" ? I was hooked by the GT2s looks from the moment it was introduced and would venture to say that any self respecting petrolhead will struggle to "hate" a 462hp rear wheel drive car!
I decided shortly after the car was launced I would have one in my garage someday and thus watched with fascination as the prices dropped like a stone!
Prices seemed to me, to have reached the bottom of the depreciation curve, and I thought now was a good time to buy before the prices headed upwards again. Furthermore, a fair proportion (not all) of these cars seem to have been involved in shunts of one sort or another, and thus the "pool" of original cars will further dwindle over time.
I will stress again my roadtest was brief, but I felt the car was more of a "sports GT" than a finely honed and tactile "road racer".
It would be fantastic for a high speed dash down to the South of France but less than ideal for the roads of North Wales that I frequent.
(A fact that was made clear to me by a former GT2 owner I contacted before my roadtest)
The GT2 didn't feel particularly "wieldy" or tactile in comparison to the GT3.
On another thread I described it as feeling like a 996TT with the front differential removed, this as opposed to being a feelsome GT3 chassis with an extra 100hp and 175 lbs ft torque I had hoped it would be.
I was left feeling underwhelmed (not you understand by its speed, which is mightily impressive) but by the feedback I received from the chassis.
I'm sure there are plenty of owners out there who are totally satisfied with what is a stunningly quick and superb looking car, but I for one, am prepared to sacrifice the extra power (and better looks ?) for the tactility of the normally aspirated GT3.
Some of the early roadtests of the GT2 said it appeared Porsche couldn't make their mind up as to what their intentions were for the car, I think that statement sums the car up and is born out by how the car drives (IMO)It's not everyday user friendly like a 996 TT but by the same token it's not as focused as the GT3.
There were the obvious financial implications in purchasing the GT2, but if I'd been really impressed with it as a car, I would have been prepared to make the financial leap to procure it.
A car to "love or hate" ? I was hooked by the GT2s looks from the moment it was introduced and would venture to say that any self respecting petrolhead will struggle to "hate" a 462hp rear wheel drive car!
I decided shortly after the car was launced I would have one in my garage someday and thus watched with fascination as the prices dropped like a stone!
Prices seemed to me, to have reached the bottom of the depreciation curve, and I thought now was a good time to buy before the prices headed upwards again. Furthermore, a fair proportion (not all) of these cars seem to have been involved in shunts of one sort or another, and thus the "pool" of original cars will further dwindle over time.
I will stress again my roadtest was brief, but I felt the car was more of a "sports GT" than a finely honed and tactile "road racer".
It would be fantastic for a high speed dash down to the South of France but less than ideal for the roads of North Wales that I frequent.
(A fact that was made clear to me by a former GT2 owner I contacted before my roadtest)
The GT2 didn't feel particularly "wieldy" or tactile in comparison to the GT3.
On another thread I described it as feeling like a 996TT with the front differential removed, this as opposed to being a feelsome GT3 chassis with an extra 100hp and 175 lbs ft torque I had hoped it would be.
I was left feeling underwhelmed (not you understand by its speed, which is mightily impressive) but by the feedback I received from the chassis.
I'm sure there are plenty of owners out there who are totally satisfied with what is a stunningly quick and superb looking car, but I for one, am prepared to sacrifice the extra power (and better looks ?) for the tactility of the normally aspirated GT3.
Some of the early roadtests of the GT2 said it appeared Porsche couldn't make their mind up as to what their intentions were for the car, I think that statement sums the car up and is born out by how the car drives (IMO)It's not everyday user friendly like a 996 TT but by the same token it's not as focused as the GT3.
I did the opposite. Have been a turbo driver for many years - felt the GT3 did not have the punch i really do enjoy. As for chassis feedback - well i have changed to Corsa track tyres and re-jigged the geometry to more my preferred set up and although its still muted, the signals are there and the break away points are much higher than you would imagine.
Simply - its a faster car, that does it for me.... oh and that turbo punch.
However - this forum has a phlefora of GT3 and RS owners and between them they are doing a pretty good job at re-writing the laws of physics.
OK over to Sir Isaac Newtons
Simply - its a faster car, that does it for me.... oh and that turbo punch.
However - this forum has a phlefora of GT3 and RS owners and between them they are doing a pretty good job at re-writing the laws of physics.
OK over to Sir Isaac Newtons
porsche4life said:
this forum has a phlefora
Wots wun of them
? P4L confused by your profile, it says you bought your GT2 in 2005 and sold it a month later
Judging by your comments I take it you still own it?
I agree, if you like the huge grunt of a turbo the GT2 takes some beating, but as others owners have said, it's not exploitable on the road to the same degree as a the GT3 (well not on the roads I use anyway
)Confused ? you will be 
Sorry deleted a double post !!
P4L, So do you use your car mainly on track or road ?
The rear end on the car I drove felt "loose" (not even under serious power) I was told by someone that has driven several cars that "they're all like that sir" Did your car feel that way initially ? and have you managed to get rid of that feeling by adjusting the geometry alone, or does it still lurk there waiting to catch you out !!!
Sorry deleted a double post !!
P4L, So do you use your car mainly on track or road ?
The rear end on the car I drove felt "loose" (not even under serious power) I was told by someone that has driven several cars that "they're all like that sir" Did your car feel that way initially ? and have you managed to get rid of that feeling by adjusting the geometry alone, or does it still lurk there waiting to catch you out !!!
Slippydiff thanks for the post, i feel that like porsche4life the GT2 is the car for me more road bias than a GT3, but hey they are all great cars. Having said that i favour GT2 i will of course have to drive one at some point, not that i am biased or anything but IMHO you made the right choice BMs are good but a Porsche they aint PLETHORA (an excess)
PLETHORA (an excess)Slippydiff - no the opposite, initially the car felt ok on Corsa systems but when you leaned on the front hard it did not bite and just scrubbed.
Back end would only come out under severe provocation on the track.
Changed to Corsa Track tyres and the car became un-spinnable which meant that if i missed an apex i could do nothing about it because the car did not respond to throttle input, just understeered.
9M have adjusted the front camber (increased) and toe (zero) which has given the front more bite and allowed the outer limits to be explored, the car is largely neutral on the limit.
On the road, the tyres are too cold to push and you will get RWD silliness under power, i don't really push the car on the road.
A GT3 will feel better because the power delivery is more progressive and you perhaps have more throttle control, i just don't think its actually faster.
Back end would only come out under severe provocation on the track.
Changed to Corsa Track tyres and the car became un-spinnable which meant that if i missed an apex i could do nothing about it because the car did not respond to throttle input, just understeered.
9M have adjusted the front camber (increased) and toe (zero) which has given the front more bite and allowed the outer limits to be explored, the car is largely neutral on the limit.
On the road, the tyres are too cold to push and you will get RWD silliness under power, i don't really push the car on the road.
A GT3 will feel better because the power delivery is more progressive and you perhaps have more throttle control, i just don't think its actually faster.
Thanks for that P4L, interesting to hear so many people say the handling can be fine tuned to make the car a lot more user friendly, it seems strange Porsche got the settings so wrong "out of the box" (but I agree wholeheartedly with your suggestion that they're not a car to take liberties with on the road) as I've mentioned elsewhere they weigh knocking on a ton and half and unless you're pretty handy behind the wheel (especially on a wet road) I'd guess they can "bite" back !
The GT3 seems to have more feedback and it's progressive power delivery makes (for me anyhow) more sense for the road.
The GT3 seems to have more feedback and it's progressive power delivery makes (for me anyhow) more sense for the road.
I had the same decision recently - TT GT3 GT2 and after test driving all three went for the GT2, the reasons in order of importance were:
- TT was as fast (if not faster on the road) but just didn't feel 'fun' enough. I prefer the raw edge of the GT2.
- GT2 looks and feels the most special to me out of the 3.
- I think the GT3 is the better track tool, but on the road I think the GT2 is better. The suspension on the GT3 I drove actually felt harsher than the GT2, but it may have been 'tweaked' I suspect.
- Financially I believe the GT2 will depreciate the least over the next 2-3 years.
- TT was as fast (if not faster on the road) but just didn't feel 'fun' enough. I prefer the raw edge of the GT2.
- GT2 looks and feels the most special to me out of the 3.
- I think the GT3 is the better track tool, but on the road I think the GT2 is better. The suspension on the GT3 I drove actually felt harsher than the GT2, but it may have been 'tweaked' I suspect.
- Financially I believe the GT2 will depreciate the least over the next 2-3 years.
Ah depreciation, the bane of all pistonheads, i am not sure that you are right R1 JON i feel the mk1 GT3 will depeciate the least as it is now nearing rock bottom price wise and it is the most exclusive numbers wise i think? Just how many c16 GT2s were sold? I must start to gen up on the GT2, suggestions to any publications or web sites, welcomed.
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