How do you explain to people what their car is really worth?
Discussion
I am having a nightmare!!!
I've been looking for a 996TT for the last month. As any other person who is working at the top of their budget, i dont want to loose too much when i sell or trade it in in a year so want a decent car for a decent price.
The last 3 cars i have looked at were very nice but the owners thought they were running an OPC or something for the prices they were asking.
For example. I saw a nice 52 reg 996TT yesterday. Midnight Blue, Manual, Totally Standard, 32k miles, no Satnav, with a new OPC warranty. From my calculations i would say a fair price for it taking into account the milage and lack of satnav would be around 50 - 52k.
The guy wanted no less than £60k for the car and proceeded to explain how he had paid £80k for it 2 yrs ago and recently been offered £57k for it...blah, blah, blah. My battered 2 month old glass' guide tells me the car is worth £59k at an OPC with 20k miles and SatNav. Therefore a dealer would ask around 55-57k for it.....2 months ago. I had seen the car initially on Ebay so had no clue as to what he wanted for the car and mistakenly though it would be realistic. I told him it was way over my budget and to call me if he decided to lower the price. I didnt even bother with a test drive.
Where can i find a decent manual car, with SatNav and a warranty without an owner who hasnt a clue what its really worth??? Should i wait a few months?? Or should i persist and hope when i offer people what glass' considers a fair value that they arent too offended??
I've been looking for a 996TT for the last month. As any other person who is working at the top of their budget, i dont want to loose too much when i sell or trade it in in a year so want a decent car for a decent price.
The last 3 cars i have looked at were very nice but the owners thought they were running an OPC or something for the prices they were asking.
For example. I saw a nice 52 reg 996TT yesterday. Midnight Blue, Manual, Totally Standard, 32k miles, no Satnav, with a new OPC warranty. From my calculations i would say a fair price for it taking into account the milage and lack of satnav would be around 50 - 52k.
The guy wanted no less than £60k for the car and proceeded to explain how he had paid £80k for it 2 yrs ago and recently been offered £57k for it...blah, blah, blah. My battered 2 month old glass' guide tells me the car is worth £59k at an OPC with 20k miles and SatNav. Therefore a dealer would ask around 55-57k for it.....2 months ago. I had seen the car initially on Ebay so had no clue as to what he wanted for the car and mistakenly though it would be realistic. I told him it was way over my budget and to call me if he decided to lower the price. I didnt even bother with a test drive.
Where can i find a decent manual car, with SatNav and a warranty without an owner who hasnt a clue what its really worth??? Should i wait a few months?? Or should i persist and hope when i offer people what glass' considers a fair value that they arent too offended??
any car is worth only what someone is prepared to shell out for, or sell for. from your scenario I would have thought you were offering a fair price, but similarly having been on the wrong end of a privatey selling 968 cab owner who though his car was worth 3K over dealer average because he had a photo of it in porsche post, one can only sympathise.
Write your seller a short, polite letter stating the glasses guide price, what you think is a fair offer, and suggesting he get in touch if he wishes to renegotiate. then forget about it, move on, and keep looking. You are unlikely to change his mind, but two or three months of lots of sniffs but no bites may make him reassess.
If he sells elsewhere for the price he wants, then he was right and you were wrong, and if in 2 months he gets in touch and offers you the car, you were right after all!
above all, remember the motto, "buy in haste..." and hang in there. your perfect car awaits, youve just not met her yet.
Write your seller a short, polite letter stating the glasses guide price, what you think is a fair offer, and suggesting he get in touch if he wishes to renegotiate. then forget about it, move on, and keep looking. You are unlikely to change his mind, but two or three months of lots of sniffs but no bites may make him reassess.
If he sells elsewhere for the price he wants, then he was right and you were wrong, and if in 2 months he gets in touch and offers you the car, you were right after all!
above all, remember the motto, "buy in haste..." and hang in there. your perfect car awaits, youve just not met her yet.
I just had a look at the 996 on 911virgin. That is a correctly priced car.
The interior is not my cup of tea but its got low miles and full spec for less than 50k. Dont know about the condition without seeing it though. I saw a very similar car a few weeks ago. The interior was a darker tan colour but it ad 32k miles on it and the guy would'nt budge below 50k for it. I told him it was worth 45k private. He is thinking about it but i dont think i'll hear from him.
The interior is not my cup of tea but its got low miles and full spec for less than 50k. Dont know about the condition without seeing it though. I saw a very similar car a few weeks ago. The interior was a darker tan colour but it ad 32k miles on it and the guy would'nt budge below 50k for it. I told him it was worth 45k private. He is thinking about it but i dont think i'll hear from him.
02/03 cars are fetching around £64K at the OPCs. They will buy the cars for around £54k.
It's difficult due to the fact that anyone who spent £80k on a car 24 months ago, is looking at a £30k hit. I know I'd be feeling gutted. Each month they lose another £500.
I've been looking for around 6 weeks. Found a nice car, but, I know I don't want to pay the asking price because that is too near a dealer price, and far to far from the trade value. I'm not prepared to throw money away. Unfortunately, the gentleman has just spent £1500 on repairs, so there's no way he's going to accept my offer. I'd like to meet him half way between the trade and retail, but there's little point in starting a negotiation.
The other problem for me is the amount of gaytronics compared to manuals available...
Like me, you'll just have to keep looking.
It's difficult due to the fact that anyone who spent £80k on a car 24 months ago, is looking at a £30k hit. I know I'd be feeling gutted. Each month they lose another £500.
I've been looking for around 6 weeks. Found a nice car, but, I know I don't want to pay the asking price because that is too near a dealer price, and far to far from the trade value. I'm not prepared to throw money away. Unfortunately, the gentleman has just spent £1500 on repairs, so there's no way he's going to accept my offer. I'd like to meet him half way between the trade and retail, but there's little point in starting a negotiation.
The other problem for me is the amount of gaytronics compared to manuals available...
Like me, you'll just have to keep looking.
This topic does make me chuckle a bit to myself.
The proplem with private to private sales is that the only reason the private person is selling privately is to try and get lots of money and the only reason someone is looking to buy privately is spend very little money. Anyone prepared to take a sensible figure for their car only has to pitch up at a dealers like us and 15 minutes later the deal is done.
We have no emotional attachment to our Turbo at all, I couldn`t care less what someone paid 24 months ago from a main dealer for the car. All I know is that I wanted to see that car on our site for £49,995 because that`s what I think it`s really worth. You would never have got to buy that car privately because the man has absolutely no interest in waiting by the phone and entertaining strangers into his beautiful home.
At the moment I think the difference between the actual price a private sale will return after all the running around, advertising, waiting, inspecting and re-negotiating and the price a dealer will pay without the hassle can sometimes be remarkably small. There will always be examples where someone swims the channel on a private sale either way but I`ve always said there is no such thing as a cheap Porsche.
Henry
The proplem with private to private sales is that the only reason the private person is selling privately is to try and get lots of money and the only reason someone is looking to buy privately is spend very little money. Anyone prepared to take a sensible figure for their car only has to pitch up at a dealers like us and 15 minutes later the deal is done.
We have no emotional attachment to our Turbo at all, I couldn`t care less what someone paid 24 months ago from a main dealer for the car. All I know is that I wanted to see that car on our site for £49,995 because that`s what I think it`s really worth. You would never have got to buy that car privately because the man has absolutely no interest in waiting by the phone and entertaining strangers into his beautiful home.
At the moment I think the difference between the actual price a private sale will return after all the running around, advertising, waiting, inspecting and re-negotiating and the price a dealer will pay without the hassle can sometimes be remarkably small. There will always be examples where someone swims the channel on a private sale either way but I`ve always said there is no such thing as a cheap Porsche.
Henry
I agree with Henry on this one, which is something of a surprise!
Had an 0202 23k, silver , full spec. (etc,etc) underwritten in the trade, best offer was £51500, why would you go through the hassle of selling privately if you can't achieve at least £53-4k against an OPC price of £59k.
Had an 0202 23k, silver , full spec. (etc,etc) underwritten in the trade, best offer was £51500, why would you go through the hassle of selling privately if you can't achieve at least £53-4k against an OPC price of £59k.
Sure you didnt buy private because
1: You are a tight sod
2: You dont want anybody to make any profit out of you
I tried to have a deal with a very well known premiership footballer, and I said "leave me a bit of profit, I have to eat" to which he replied "I want you to make nothing"............he was serious and I let him take his business elsewhere
anonymous said:
[redacted]
You seem to think I am buying cars by guesswork and what I think of the seller. Not at all. I may look foolish but in fact know my way around a car reasonably well. If there are issues it`s my job to spot them. I have to sail as close to the wind as I dare with all the cars I see in order to ensure I end up with the car in stock. I am not the only dealer in the country buying Porsches and if someone thinks I am being too hard on their car they will take it elsewhere.
In terms of financial differences of £5-8k between what we give and what the seller will get privately that simply isn`t true. We usually have refurb costs to achieve our retail figure and it is unlikely a private seller will achieve our retail figure. They are limited by what the private buyer will pay which in some cases is less than we would offer as dealers ! That was my point.
Lets suppose we pay £21k for a car, spend £1k on it, advertise it for £25k and take £24.5k
Privately the guy gets £23k for it but had to spend his £1.25k (retail) on refurb to achieve this figure. He`s £750 better off less advertising, wasted days waiting for buyers / dropping the car off for an inspection / risking his pride and joy on an uninsured test drive.
And what if he only got £22.5k or even £22k ?
Henry
Good independents don't usually survive long if they are persistently greedy. Equally, they usually have to work harder than franchised dealers, and often cater to a more picky (or should I say 'bearded'?) crowd. If having some recourse if my car goes wrong, having a specialist to talk to about my purchase, having perhaps a few different cars to look at, and maybe having someone to trade the car back to later costs me an extra 10% or so - then I think it's perhaps worthwhile. There are sh*t independents out there too, and a few sharks - but if you're a babe to the slaughter in any event, then you're screwed either way. You makes your choices...
POORCARDEALER said:
Sure you didnt buy private because
1: You are a tight sod
Well personally I am proud to be a tight sod. Do you just walk up to people and hand strangers $5,000.00 ? Thrift with strangers allows me to be generous to friends. Paying more for something than someone else makes me feel foolish. I relish a bargain but am sensible about it and draw no comfort from knowing I have paid more.
Also it allows me to pass my savings on. I bought my 996 TT reasonably priced and am able to sell it in the same way after a very cared for 2 years.
I agree private sellers often have lofty expectations – however so long as it is more than a dealer’s offer and I trust the purchaser I will and do sell privately.
Cyrus
All I can say is that if you think a car is over priced...dont buy it and walk away! Where is the problem here? There will always be another car along and usually sooner than you think. Yes a private should be cheaper than a dealer, but sometimes there are circumstances where the opposite is true. Nearly new "hardcore" sportscars for instance, GT3s, Sagaris, etc. No way in hell would I buy a dealer's demo car over a private car for the same money, I *know* how hard the demos have been thrashed and lets be honest, we all do because we have all thrashed them! How many owners thrash their cars in the first yr of ownership? Not many, if for no other reason than the car isnt really thrashable until a cpl of thousand miles under their wheels.
For what its worth about Henry's motors, I think they are reasonably priced. Maybe a cpl more k than a private punter, but you can always take his bug price or knock £500-£1k off his price or negotiate some sort of "peace of mind" deal to your satisfaction. On older sportscars £20k upwards, I dont mind paying maybe £2k more for some peace of mind and having a good relationship with an Indie. Hell, your motor has lost most of its depreciation so you are probably going to get back 90% of your capital anyway. I cant really see 996tt's dropping below the £40k barrier for a good spec rhd manual model, because the damn things are just so bloody good. Sensible proper, cared for, specced rhd manuals sell themselves, now and in the future. Be patient, buy what you want and be happy in the knowledge you wont lose a packet.
For what its worth about Henry's motors, I think they are reasonably priced. Maybe a cpl more k than a private punter, but you can always take his bug price or knock £500-£1k off his price or negotiate some sort of "peace of mind" deal to your satisfaction. On older sportscars £20k upwards, I dont mind paying maybe £2k more for some peace of mind and having a good relationship with an Indie. Hell, your motor has lost most of its depreciation so you are probably going to get back 90% of your capital anyway. I cant really see 996tt's dropping below the £40k barrier for a good spec rhd manual model, because the damn things are just so bloody good. Sensible proper, cared for, specced rhd manuals sell themselves, now and in the future. Be patient, buy what you want and be happy in the knowledge you wont lose a packet.
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