Porsche Salesman Mistake
Discussion
I signed an order form in December for the total amount of £82885 for a Carrera S. The salesman gets back to me yesterday and told me that he made a mistake with his calculations, and the price is now £83718.
The reason for the price difference is because he made an error with the price of the sports adaptive seats. He crossed out the incorrect price, then added the correct price to the left of the £P boxes. He then forgot to add that price, hence his mistake.
Am I right in saying that the amount I signed for is what I should pay?
The reason for the price difference is because he made an error with the price of the sports adaptive seats. He crossed out the incorrect price, then added the correct price to the left of the £P boxes. He then forgot to add that price, hence his mistake.
Am I right in saying that the amount I signed for is what I should pay?
anth62 said:
I signed an order form in December for the total amount of £82885 for a Carrera S. The salesman gets back to me yesterday and told me that he made a mistake with his calculations, and the price is now £83718.
The reason for the price difference is because he made an error with the price of the sports adaptive seats. He crossed out the incorrect price, then added the correct price to the left of the £P boxes. He then forgot to add that price, hence his mistake.
Am I right in saying that the amount I signed for is what I should pay?
Screw the legality. I would bet my knackers on the fact that they will not lose a sale over a grand. Refuse to pay it and see what happens...
anth62 said:
He crossed out the incorrect price, then added the correct price to the left of the £P boxes. He then forgot to add that price, hence his mistake.
Am I right in saying that the amount I signed for is what I should pay?
Afraid not as you signed for the initial cost of the car plus the additional costs. It doesn't matter if there is an artihmetical error in the total sum, what stands is your total cost when calculated correctly.
Would have been a different story if he hadn't crossed out the incorrect figure...
It depends on the legal standing of the order... is it a contract or an 'invitation to treat' i.e. you have formally invited Porsche to sell you a suitable car for the amount on the form.
If a contract, they should in theory deliver at the price or negotiate a new contract or pay compensation for breach if found guilty under contract law; they would have had to act unreasonably in this case.
If an invitation to treat, tough titties, you have to pay the extra.
As Daz says, a little sweet talking goes a long way. I was in the 'legal wrong' but 'moral right' with a company and they basically helped me out and met half way. I would have lost in court, butmy early jumping up and down then pleading and smiling seemed to work
If a contract, they should in theory deliver at the price or negotiate a new contract or pay compensation for breach if found guilty under contract law; they would have had to act unreasonably in this case.
If an invitation to treat, tough titties, you have to pay the extra.
As Daz says, a little sweet talking goes a long way. I was in the 'legal wrong' but 'moral right' with a company and they basically helped me out and met half way. I would have lost in court, butmy early jumping up and down then pleading and smiling seemed to work
dazren said:
I don't know legally, but look at it this way. If they'd miscalulated the additions and overstated the total by £1,000 would you expect them to reduce it after you'd signed the order?
Bit of common sense on both sides?
DAZ
>> Edited by dazren on Wednesday 12th April 10:50
Well said. Too much litigation in this world already... let's keep it simple and honest, eh?
(merrily skips his way back to neverneverland where love and world peace prevails)
I would try the “I wont budge line” and see where it gets you initially. Obviously always settle amicably if you can. Then next request for them to return the value to you in another form that costs them less . IE servicing discount ?
Only then mention the law, which hugely summarised is that legally speaking the distinction between an “invitation to treat” and “a contract” is significant and needs to be established so ask him “is your order a contract ?”
It is a contract if there is an intention to create legal relations and I feel there is in this case – it is the definite purpose of an order to create legal relations.
It is also a contract if the major elements of (1) Cost + (2) what's being bought + (3) completion time is mentioned.
I would introduce a new term that’s meaningless in law but emotionally valuable “a deal is a deal” and they need to honour it - otherwise what is the world to think a Porsche Order worth, not the paper it’s written on ?
C
Only then mention the law, which hugely summarised is that legally speaking the distinction between an “invitation to treat” and “a contract” is significant and needs to be established so ask him “is your order a contract ?”
It is a contract if there is an intention to create legal relations and I feel there is in this case – it is the definite purpose of an order to create legal relations.
It is also a contract if the major elements of (1) Cost + (2) what's being bought + (3) completion time is mentioned.
I would introduce a new term that’s meaningless in law but emotionally valuable “a deal is a deal” and they need to honour it - otherwise what is the world to think a Porsche Order worth, not the paper it’s written on ?
C
How about this for a lawyer's answer - DO NOT involve the law here.
The best solution here is to speak to the dealer principal. You can bet your b0llocks to a barn dance that this salesman won't have admitted to his boss that he can't add up
and so I suspect that a quiet word with him may (a) get your extra money written off (b) probably out of the saleman's commission.
If you want a REALLY amicable settlement (i.e. you need to use the OPC going forward and want a load of goodwill with them) then you could offer to split the difference - depends on your priorities - perhaps ask for the first two services f.o.c. instead.
>> Edited by vesuvius996 on Wednesday 12th April 11:40
The best solution here is to speak to the dealer principal. You can bet your b0llocks to a barn dance that this salesman won't have admitted to his boss that he can't add up
and so I suspect that a quiet word with him may (a) get your extra money written off (b) probably out of the saleman's commission. If you want a REALLY amicable settlement (i.e. you need to use the OPC going forward and want a load of goodwill with them) then you could offer to split the difference - depends on your priorities - perhaps ask for the first two services f.o.c. instead.
>> Edited by vesuvius996 on Wednesday 12th April 11:40
Instead of complicating matters, you could just do the decent thing and accept the salesman made a small error and pay for what you will be getting in terms of the car spec cost......As you would expect to happen if the shoe was on the other foot and the price was overstated instead.
anth62 said:
Am I right in saying that the amount I signed for is what I should pay?
No, you are wrong.
I went through esactly this about a month ago with an error on the signed form.
The signed piece of paper you're referring to is a request to the factory to supply the car at that price. The small print says so.
However, the small print also says that should the price change you have to be notified in writing (before delivery) and then you can reject it and walk away.
In my circumstance they asked for the money, but I refused as it was only a small amount, I didn't like the way they asked for it (ie. as if it was my mistake) and they weren't going to blow out a £50k sale over that.
I do think it'd be worth spending time with the dealer principle. They should find an amicable solution.
If you are buying an 80K+ car then it is not the extra cost you are agrieved about,it is the principal.I would split it 50/50 or go and buy something else(they will not want to lose a sale over £500)If there is nothing else you would like then you may have to suck it up,so to speak.Good luck!
dazren said:
I don't know legally, but look at it this way. If they'd miscalulated the additions and overstated the total by £1,000 would you expect them to reduce it after you'd signed the order?
Bit of common sense on both sides?
DAZ
>> Edited by dazren on Wednesday 12th April 10:50
Exactly, these things happen.
But, without falling out, see if you can squeeze a bit of goodwill out of them. If not, don't lose any sleep over it, just enjoy your car.
this "goodwill" stuff strikes me as a cynical excuse to screw someone for a genuine mistake. if the dealer owned up and expressed genuine regret then that would be enough for me. having said that i would certainly have checked my copy of the order form long ago, and would have known damned well that the figures were wrong.
but then perhaps my attitude explains why i cant afford a new 911
but then perhaps my attitude explains why i cant afford a new 911
pikey said:
The signed piece of paper you're referring to is a request to the factory to supply the car at that price.
Then it's an 'invitation to treat' as mentioned earlier.
Porsche can tell you to push off, basically
Quite common in law. That's why if someone puts a sticker on a bottle of champagne saying '50p' it's not legally binding that they have to sell it to you for that. They are saying 'make me an offer at 50p' and they then choose whether or not to accept it. They tend to decline the errors
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