944S2/968 convertible - any experiences?
Discussion
Chaps,
The search for a (reasonably) budget sports convertible continues; and I want to know if anyone knows anything about the 944S2 or 968. I have always liked them, but know nothing about:
- weak spots and what to look for when buying
- servicing costs
- reliability – a lot of these cars have done 100,000 miles or more; is this a problem if there’s a good service history
- performance – 0-60 times are all very well, but how good are they in the real world i.e mid-range overtaking pnch/torquiness/driveability in town etc?
Any other impressions of ownership would be lovely. 968 is a peach, but sub £10k ones are lhd – and these cars are already expensive to insure; found myself shocked that a Honda S2000 (the alternative, but rather more expensive) was cheaper to insure…
Help/thoughts appreciated!
Harry.
The search for a (reasonably) budget sports convertible continues; and I want to know if anyone knows anything about the 944S2 or 968. I have always liked them, but know nothing about:
- weak spots and what to look for when buying
- servicing costs
- reliability – a lot of these cars have done 100,000 miles or more; is this a problem if there’s a good service history
- performance – 0-60 times are all very well, but how good are they in the real world i.e mid-range overtaking pnch/torquiness/driveability in town etc?
Any other impressions of ownership would be lovely. 968 is a peach, but sub £10k ones are lhd – and these cars are already expensive to insure; found myself shocked that a Honda S2000 (the alternative, but rather more expensive) was cheaper to insure…
Help/thoughts appreciated!
Harry.
Lhd is not a problem, but are slightly more to insure.
944s2 v 968 is down to personal taste, the basic car is not that different, but looks wise I prefer the 968.
But trust me in terms of driveability they are a world apart from an s2000, I borrowed one for a night and was disgusted with the handling, its all very well having an engine that screams, but the overall car was poor I felt, stupid hood design, no space inside, next to no boot (and I'm a 911 man), slowish, poor handling and the least ergonomic dashboard in the world, they joke about 911 dash's but the s2000 was clearly designed by a child throwing controls from the other side of the garage!
Not a fan I'm afraid!
944 s2 and 968 have lovely mid range punch, perfect for every day driving and are economical, and reliable, relaxing on motorways because they dont scream to produce the power, great chassis, practical boot, lots of cubby holes and its a porsche.
Dont worry too much about mileage, look for one that has been looked after, regular oil changes are the key.
944s2 v 968 is down to personal taste, the basic car is not that different, but looks wise I prefer the 968.
But trust me in terms of driveability they are a world apart from an s2000, I borrowed one for a night and was disgusted with the handling, its all very well having an engine that screams, but the overall car was poor I felt, stupid hood design, no space inside, next to no boot (and I'm a 911 man), slowish, poor handling and the least ergonomic dashboard in the world, they joke about 911 dash's but the s2000 was clearly designed by a child throwing controls from the other side of the garage!
Not a fan I'm afraid!
944 s2 and 968 have lovely mid range punch, perfect for every day driving and are economical, and reliable, relaxing on motorways because they dont scream to produce the power, great chassis, practical boot, lots of cubby holes and its a porsche.
Dont worry too much about mileage, look for one that has been looked after, regular oil changes are the key.
They're both excellent drives, brilliant chassis, strong performance and generally reliable and pratical, and there are plenty around with huge mileages. In reality (apart from their appearance) there's about a 5% difference in the way thay drive; the 968 is a little more refined, has a 6 speed gear and, in theory, a little more power. But its also heavier. The auto/tiptronic gearbox option saps performance and is an aquired taste.
Main mechanical problems are with engine's top end, a cam chain tensioner is weak leading to expensive cam wear. Oil leaks are normal and transaxles can be noisy, and consumables can be rpicy. However, their weaknesses are well known, and there are lots of specialists around so getting one checked over before purchase is easy.
I'd think 10k would get you a 944S2 cab with less than 100k miles; lots are summer only cars. With that budget I'd suggest a very good 944 is a better bet than an iffy 968.
FWIW I ensure my garaged, 3k miles p.a. 968CS with AON for £260 p.a.
Its gotta be a better option than a 3 y.o. MX5....
SS7
Main mechanical problems are with engine's top end, a cam chain tensioner is weak leading to expensive cam wear. Oil leaks are normal and transaxles can be noisy, and consumables can be rpicy. However, their weaknesses are well known, and there are lots of specialists around so getting one checked over before purchase is easy.
I'd think 10k would get you a 944S2 cab with less than 100k miles; lots are summer only cars. With that budget I'd suggest a very good 944 is a better bet than an iffy 968.
FWIW I ensure my garaged, 3k miles p.a. 968CS with AON for £260 p.a.
Its gotta be a better option than a 3 y.o. MX5....
SS7
Guys - thank you so much. Autotrader has a lovely looking black lhd 968 convertible for £8,500 - but 100k miles. Conversely there is an absolutely mint looking 944 S2 convertible there for £9k (rhd).
I actually prefer the looks of the S2, but like the idea of the 968 being more modern, with the variable valve timing engine. But how would one look out for top end wear? Inspection obviously crucial as these cars are getting on a bit now...
What are these cars like for corrosion on body and chassis, by the way?
I actually prefer the looks of the S2, but like the idea of the 968 being more modern, with the variable valve timing engine. But how would one look out for top end wear? Inspection obviously crucial as these cars are getting on a bit now...
What are these cars like for corrosion on body and chassis, by the way?
I've had my 968 Sport since October, its covered 72k so is fairly low mileage, I've only done 2k in the car since I've had it!
I find it very good to drive, both round town and on a run. Around town the only thing I find is when in traffic the clutch is quite heavy so i find my leg aching after a while if I have to use it too much, but this is not what I bought the car for!
On a run it is very impressinve, it pulls very well through all the gears and still has good/reasonable acceleration in 6th.
I've never driven a convertable version so can't comment on the way they drive in comarison to the coupe but I'm sure their just as good.....
Service wise, mine cost £240 ish for a good service (when I bought it) from Autostrasse. I paid around £650 for a new clutch recently but also had some other work done at the same time.
Insurance - mine is insured for 5k/year on a classic policy which costs £375.
I'm sure which ever car you choose it will be a blast! As long as the car is serviced regularly you shouldn't have many problems.
I find it very good to drive, both round town and on a run. Around town the only thing I find is when in traffic the clutch is quite heavy so i find my leg aching after a while if I have to use it too much, but this is not what I bought the car for!
On a run it is very impressinve, it pulls very well through all the gears and still has good/reasonable acceleration in 6th.
I've never driven a convertable version so can't comment on the way they drive in comarison to the coupe but I'm sure their just as good.....
Service wise, mine cost £240 ish for a good service (when I bought it) from Autostrasse. I paid around £650 for a new clutch recently but also had some other work done at the same time.
Insurance - mine is insured for 5k/year on a classic policy which costs £375.
I'm sure which ever car you choose it will be a blast! As long as the car is serviced regularly you shouldn't have many problems.
wildoliver said:
Lhd is not a problem, but are slightly more to insure.
944s2 v 968 is down to personal taste, the basic car is not that different, but looks wise I prefer the 968.
But trust me in terms of driveability they are a world apart from an s2000, I borrowed one for a night and was disgusted with the handling, its all very well having an engine that screams, but the overall car was poor I felt, stupid hood design, no space inside, next to no boot (and I'm a 911 man), slowish, poor handling and the least ergonomic dashboard in the world, they joke about 911 dash's but the s2000 was clearly designed by a child throwing controls from the other side of the garage!
Not a fan I'm afraid!
944 s2 and 968 have lovely mid range punch, perfect for every day driving and are economical, and reliable, relaxing on motorways because they dont scream to produce the power, great chassis, practical boot, lots of cubby holes and its a porsche.
Dont worry too much about mileage, look for one that has been looked after, regular oil changes are the key.
Completely agree, S2000 was one of the most disappointing cars I've driven, and that was quite a late example. I usually love Hondas and have no aversion to reving a car hard, but dead steering and total lack of feel v. poor.
Harry Flashman said:
Guys - thank you so much. Autotrader has a lovely looking black lhd 968 convertible for £8,500 - but 100k miles. Conversely there is an absolutely mint looking 944 S2 convertible there for £9k (rhd).
I actually prefer the looks of the S2, but like the idea of the 968 being more modern, with the variable valve timing engine. But how would one look out for top end wear? Inspection obviously crucial as these cars are getting on a bit now...
What are these cars like for corrosion on body and chassis, by the way?
much as i adore my 968 i think of those two i would go for the 944. there isnt much to choose from them mechanically, the 968 has the variocam which adds extra oomph at about 4k rpm. to me it looks more modern but its horses for courses, and if you prefer the look of the 944 then i wonder whether the 3-4K premium for a 968 is worth it to you. The 968 has a few advantages though - clutch replacement is much easier, brakes are better IMHO, 6th gear in nice on motorways. the closer ratio box gives more fun if youre into gear changing. I'd Avoid tiptronics - poor performance comparatively.
Your main problem with a 968 cab is sourcing one. Only about 1000 rhd cabs were ever imported to the uk of which 2/3 were tips. so a manual 968 cab is hard to find and you are looking in a much larger pool for the 944. Henry at 911virgin has one 968cab at the mo, not seen any others for ages
corrosion and bodywork just not a problem. overall, very robust cars. Its not hard to get the cams inspected, and the variocam for that matter. Look out for ropey/worn shocks - my new front struts have transformed the handling. It just such a well planted car, the handling (for a cab) is great. avoid anything with a lowered suspension - ok on the coupes, the cab cant handle it.
edited to say i would love to have climbed on a soapbox and waxed lyrical about the one porsche i can fell confident talking about, but i got here too late and all that's been said seems terribly sensible to me.
>> Edited by softinthehead on Tuesday 9th May 16:28
I have owned a 944S2 cabriolet and often drove a 968 cabrio tippytoes when a friend had one.
- weak spots and what to look for when buying
Usual belt and cam issues; PAS pump, water pump. (PAS grinds when it's on its way out).
- servicing costs
Pretty cheap unless it's the cams etc.
- reliability – a lot of these cars have done 100,000 miles or more; is this a problem if there’s a good service history
Check that cams have been done.
- performance – 0-60 times are all very well, but how good are they in the real world i.e mid-range overtaking pnch/torquiness/driveability in town etc?
Not that punchy in my opinion. Neither was a particularly fast car and both understeered heavily when pushed. Nice handling and great chassis compared to a saloon, but not as good as 944 coupe or 968 CS etc. Tiptronic was really slow - made lots of noise but not lots of progress. Never felt 240bhp quick; more like 140-160bhp quick! If you want a sports car, get a Caterham or an Elise.
- rust and corrosion
Neither had rust problems.
Other points: watch out for the hood, they're 6k new from Porsche but you could get them for much less aftermarket, or repaired. But they're still not something you want vandalised. Erm, rear seat and boot space not massive, but reasonably practical thanks to ski hatch.
To be honest, I quite like them. But they're not an open topped adrenaline machine like an Elise or a Seven. More a soft top GT.
- weak spots and what to look for when buying
Usual belt and cam issues; PAS pump, water pump. (PAS grinds when it's on its way out).
- servicing costs
Pretty cheap unless it's the cams etc.
- reliability – a lot of these cars have done 100,000 miles or more; is this a problem if there’s a good service history
Check that cams have been done.
- performance – 0-60 times are all very well, but how good are they in the real world i.e mid-range overtaking pnch/torquiness/driveability in town etc?
Not that punchy in my opinion. Neither was a particularly fast car and both understeered heavily when pushed. Nice handling and great chassis compared to a saloon, but not as good as 944 coupe or 968 CS etc. Tiptronic was really slow - made lots of noise but not lots of progress. Never felt 240bhp quick; more like 140-160bhp quick! If you want a sports car, get a Caterham or an Elise.
- rust and corrosion
Neither had rust problems.
Other points: watch out for the hood, they're 6k new from Porsche but you could get them for much less aftermarket, or repaired. But they're still not something you want vandalised. Erm, rear seat and boot space not massive, but reasonably practical thanks to ski hatch.
To be honest, I quite like them. But they're not an open topped adrenaline machine like an Elise or a Seven. More a soft top GT.
domster said:
To be honest, I quite like them. But they're not an open topped adrenaline machine like an Elise or a Seven. More a soft top GT.
Not a problem - I am after something more civilised, that will live under a cover outside. Having run a TVR, I want something less wearing on long trips, a hell of a lot more reliable and rather better built. More questions:
1) How much to do the cams? If I find a car that will need them doing, I would like to know what I am talking about costwise when settling price
2) Having not yet inspected one, how do they sound (remember I've been spoiled by a TVR). And if rather uninspiring, are there any (tasteful, rather than just loud) exhaust systems available to make it sound a bit fruitier?
1) How much to do the cams?
About a 2k bill IIRC... not cheap.
2) Having not yet inspected one, how do they sound (remember I've been spoiled by a TVR). And if rather uninspiring, are there any (tasteful, rather than just loud) exhaust systems available to make it sound a bit fruitier?
To be honest, they sound pretty rubbish. One of the worst points about the car. If they sounded like a 911 they would probably have outsold it
Normal four cylinder dirge - the 911 sounds much better. Sports exhaust may help but not that common for them, unlike 911 aftermarket exhausts where lots of options. If you want a better sounding convertible, get an E36 M3 Evo Convertible for similar money. Quicker; handling not a lot worse, and sounds much nicer. Not a Porsche though and a bit 'gangsta'. Any independent in London should be able to do an inspection. Either google something (JAZ at Wembley, for example) or subscribe to Porsche Club Great Britain and see who advertises in Porsche Post. You can also search this forum for inspections + London as key words.
agree about the 968 exhaust note - its very lame. And if the baffles go (and they do) then its £1200 for a new one. My Janspeed exhaust (bought through promax) is much more in keeping and was £700 cheaper!
You will need to get a mechanic to inspect the cams - there are a few inspectors who have good reps (e.g peter morgan) but they wont dismantle the car. arrange to take it to a good indie garage where they can look at the cams directly. and there is a little tensioner for the variocam that can seize and cause no end of strife - very easy and cheap to renew and can be incorporated into a belts service (which you should consider negotiating as part of the purchase deal).
the sun is out. its been worth the pain of winter. go buy!
>> Edited by softinthehead on Wednesday 10th May 10:56
You will need to get a mechanic to inspect the cams - there are a few inspectors who have good reps (e.g peter morgan) but they wont dismantle the car. arrange to take it to a good indie garage where they can look at the cams directly. and there is a little tensioner for the variocam that can seize and cause no end of strife - very easy and cheap to renew and can be incorporated into a belts service (which you should consider negotiating as part of the purchase deal).
the sun is out. its been worth the pain of winter. go buy!
>> Edited by softinthehead on Wednesday 10th May 10:56
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