Revo upgrade on 996TT

[smirnoff]

I am thinking of getting the Revo upgrade on my 996TT, there are alot of threads that mention it, but I wondered if there are any PH's who have had it done.

I am going to use Weltmeiser as they are the only ones who map it on a rolling road instead of just flashing in the software.

Worth it or not?

[kayc]

I know a few people who have had tt's upgraded by DMS with very successful results...car runs just as smooth at low speeds however the pick up is miles quicker...boost goes from about 0.6 bar(standard) up to 0.9.Also the exhaust note is slightly louder even with standard pipes.

[superlightr]

Is the map upgrade detectable if your car is still under an extended opc warranty - would this affect it?

[kayc]

superlightr said:

Is the map upgrade detectable if your car is still under an extended opc warranty - would this affect it?

According to DMS it is undetectable by Porsche diagnostics etc..mbutchers had a 330d bee-em done by them a few years ago that developed an independent fault aside from the chip upgrade.When the car was checked by the local bee-em main agent their diagnostics did not detect any chip upgrade..

[Smirnoff]

kayc said:

superlightr said: Is the map upgrade detectable if your car is still under an extended opc warranty - would this affect it? According to DMS it is undetectable by Porsche diagnostics etc..mbutchers had a 330d bee-em done by them a few years ago that developed an independent fault aside from the chip upgrade.When the car was checked by the local bee-em main agent their diagnostics did not detect any chip upgrade..

The DMC upgrade is undetectable, but does trip the counter, the Revo one does't even do that. (According to Weltmeister anyway)

[superlightr]

sorry for being a thicky - tripping the counter?

does the ecu have a counter on how many times its been flushed/adjusted? would this not give the game away to an OPC if the ecu is back at 0000 or 0001

[Smirnoff]

superlightr said:

sorry for being a thicky - tripping the counter? does the ecu have a counter on how many times its been flushed/adjusted? would this not give the game away to an OPC if the ecu is back at 0000 or 0001

Alledgedly it stays where it was the last time an OPC checked it. Doesn't bother me either way cos mine won't be going to an OPC.

[supermono]

The way I understand it, they program one of the "spare" memory ranges in the ECU and the (optional) widget they supply you with plugs into the diag port and tells the ECU to read the map from this other bank.

The theory goes, once you switch it back to read the old bank it's situation normal as far as the OPC is concerned.

There's nothing to stop them from looking at this spare location though to discover your new map, so it's definitely not "undetectable".

TBH if I was an OPC and someone came in with a blown up engine it'd be the first place I looked, but I'm told that they dont.

If you're going to buy the widget (200 quid IIRC) anyway I'd be inclined to buy it first before spending the 2500 quid programming and plug it in just to see if a previous owner had the work done then switched it off before selling...

SM

[superlightr]

just having a chat to DMS about a gentle upgrade...

[weltmeister]

With reference to ECU upgrades on 996TT. We offer both DMS & Revo options. The DMS option is more geared towards cars out of warranty, as it will leave trace code behind [unless you remove ECU from car & benchflash] The DMS option is also only a generic flash at dealer level, whereas the Revo option leaves no trace and is bespoke tuned by us to each car on the dyno.

This offers consumers options.

Allan

[superlightr]

weltmeister said:

With reference to ECU upgrades on 996TT. We offer both DMS & Revo options. The DMS option is more geared towards cars out of warranty, as it will leave trace code behind [unless you remove ECU from car & benchflash] The DMS option is also only a generic flash at dealer level, whereas the Revo option leaves no trace and is bespoke tuned by us to each car on the dyno. This offers consumers options. Allan

What the sort of cost for a Revo ecu upgrade for a standard 2003 996tt? and to what does it take it too? email me if you wish [e-mail]

Thanks

ps just looked at your web site with the increase but could not see the cost. Does this include a 'widget' to switch back to original ecu programm?

>> Edited by superlightr on Friday 26th May 13:38

[riverproaudio]

The problem with all these upgrades is that there are no official figures bhp and/or 0-60/0-100mph. They all claim certain figures, but when you pin the seller down the help dries up. I tried to get more in-depth facts and figures from quit a few upgrade companies late last year and none could prove the actual power output or 0 -x mph figures. The all have a guess, but no hard facts!

>> Edited by riverproaudio on Friday 26th May 14:01

[Mosi]

Hello Chaps,

First post here so go easy on me, these forums can take over a mans life therefore I have tended to lurk on here rather than get sucked into yet another forum obsession!

Anyway, as a previous Weltmeister Revo re-map customer I felt I could add some valuable first hand input to this thread, so here goes.

Weltmeister did a Revo re-map on my 02 996TT (with upgraded X50 K24's turbos on it) last year and to say it was a flyer afterwards would be an understatement. BHP was upped to 509bhp (varified on before & after dyno runs on the samme day) and more impressively the torque figure was 580 lb/ft at just 3200 revs. mid-range pull was awesome and their was so much torque that I never needed to thrash the car to make very brisk progress indeed!

A number of standard 996TT owners were either passengers in the car or drove it for themselves and they were ALL astounded at the difference.

I dont have a Porsche anymore, and I am not a customer of Weltmeisters (they dont tune Lamborghini's) therefore the point of my post is not to shamelessly plug them - just to pass on my thoughts/comments on the Weltmeister Revo work.

Whatever route you take, I would INSIST on a before & after dyno graph for whichever re-map you go for as there are a number of mappers taking large amounts of money for ECU re-flashes yet with no hard data to prove what you are paying for....and ANY map can be aggressively set to make a car 'feel' faster, therefore without proof I wouldnt part with a bean of cash.

Good luck in your quest

[newbie01]

I've spoken to Weltmeister re these ECU remaps vs OPC warranty. I was advised that the OPC would not be able to see that the ECU had been flashed but if there was a warranty claim and the engine went back to Germany, they "May" be able to detect that the ECU had been fiddled with. I decided against it because of this and the chance that if something did go wrong with the engine that the warranty would be invalid. If i wasnt worried about the warranty, id go for it though. I think it was around £2k - £2.5k including the widget to swap between ECU settings.

[mikial]

Mosi said:

Hello Chaps, First post here so go easy on me, these forums can take over a mans life therefore I have tended to lurk on here rather than get sucked into yet another forum obsession! Anyway, as a previous Weltmeister Revo re-map customer I felt I could add some valuable first hand input to this thread, so here goes. Weltmeister did a Revo re-map on my 02 996TT (with upgraded X50 K24's turbos on it) last year and to say it was a flyer afterwards would be an understatement. BHP was upped to 509bhp (varified on before & after dyno runs on the samme day) and more impressively the torque figure was 580 lb/ft at just 3200 revs. mid-range pull was awesome and their was so much torque that I never needed to thrash the car to make very brisk progress indeed! A number of standard 996TT owners were either passengers in the car or drove it for themselves and they were ALL astounded at the difference. I dont have a Porsche anymore, and I am not a customer of Weltmeisters (they dont tune Lamborghini's) therefore the point of my post is not to shamelessly plug them - just to pass on my thoughts/comments on the Weltmeister Revo work. Whatever route you take, I would INSIST on a before & after dyno graph for whichever re-map you go for as there are a number of mappers taking large amounts of money for ECU re-flashes yet with no hard data to prove what you are paying for....and ANY map can be aggressively set to make a car 'feel' faster, therefore without proof I wouldnt part with a bean of cash. Good luck in your quest

Hello Mosi, I know about your tt having read the information and seen the graph on another forum. I didn`t know that it was a Revo upgrade. There is a Revo outlet in Norwich ( about 20 miles from me )with a R/R but it`s not a Porsche specialist unlike Weltmeister. Do I be lazy or go to Silverstone, thats the question...?

Hope you`re well.

[willr]

How much does a completely new ECU cost?
I guess one option would be to keep the original one safe somewhere and flash the new one.

[iguana]

riverproaudio said:

The problem with all these upgrades is that there are no official figures bhp and/or 0-60/0-100mph. They all claim certain figures, but when you pin the seller down the help dries up. I tried to get more in-depth facts and figures from quit a few upgrade companies late last year and none could prove the actual power output or 0 -x mph figures. The all have a guess, but no hard facts! >> Edited by riverproaudio on Friday 26th May 14:01

What a very odd attitude, how on earth can a company promise what you car will garanteed pump out? they can tell you what most of there modified cars will do & thus give you a very good idea but they would be stupid to quote an exact figure, not all engines are the same, although after inital RR runs as standard they will have a very good idea of what is very likely to be achived.

What has puzzled me for ages tho is the purveyor of perhaps the biggest turn over of chipped 996Ts in the Uk has never had its own RR, hence no before runs can be done or indeed after runs, unless of course the customer went to a 3rd parties facility before & after.

As for performance testing- why?? what figures are you going to compare them to? Porsches quoted figures? or Autocars? or Evos? Road & track etc etc. If you fancy paying for the tyres & clutch & gearboxes then just give it to an indepentant tester before & after & see how they get on, not that its at all relevant, as if its a non tiptronic most normal drivers are around a second off professional (clutch & gearbox butchers) testers in the same car anyway (Autocar test)

>> Edited by iguana on Friday 26th May 15:40

[MOD500]

Regards performance figures, I suppose the only way to really quantify the improvement is to do 60-130 (or the like) runs with an accurate data logger and compare them to stock times. As long as the driver doesn't change gear akin to driving a Scammell Commander the comparison should be valid

Hope you are well o' reptilian one.

>> Edited by MOD500 on Friday 26th May 17:13

[tcb]

This BHP acuracy debate is something that from my days in evo's etc has been discused on various car forums til the cows come home !

Debates over trany loss levels and whose RR reads high or low - one thing is certain no-one will ever agree !

The Evo forum boys (MLR) had what I thought was the best solution - they hired Brunters and a datalog box and ran a 30-130mph day. Using 30mph as a starting point took out any element of driver launch skil and is a lot kinder to transmitions etc.

The tarmac has got to be the best rolling road out there and settled a lot of arguments over power output once and for all.

[boony]

Mosi said:

A number of standard 996TT owners were either passengers in the car or drove it for themselves and they were ALL astounded at the difference.

Really? I recently had the 5 hour free trial of REVO on my 996tt and was unimpressed. Boost was up to 0.9 but car felt only very slightly quicker. Maybe I was just expecting too much. Is everyone happy with their REVO?