TOTAL 911 - 996 3.4 Engine article
Discussion
"Revealed - the truth behind 3.4 litre 996 engine failures..."
The title of the piece in Total 993 this month is entitled "Exploding Myths" (has Raby been getting training from The Sun?) and contains such gems as..
"90 to 95 percent of early 996s are likely to be trouble free"
What exactly is this based on? I hope for his sake that the publisher is able to prove this statistic because if Porsche GB take issue with that comment it could prove very expensive!! Defamation is something which should only be attempted with those with very deep pockets, Phil!
It also has a big advert for a leading independent who (shock) has just developed a repair for these supposed common failures, and (shock) a piece on RMS......
Am I the only one getting bored stiff with all this doom and gloom. I say again, buy a car with the OPC warranty and just forget about it.
Great mag, but FFS CHANGE THE RECORD BOYS.
The title of the piece in Total 993 this month is entitled "Exploding Myths" (has Raby been getting training from The Sun?) and contains such gems as..
"90 to 95 percent of early 996s are likely to be trouble free"
What exactly is this based on? I hope for his sake that the publisher is able to prove this statistic because if Porsche GB take issue with that comment it could prove very expensive!! Defamation is something which should only be attempted with those with very deep pockets, Phil!
It also has a big advert for a leading independent who (shock) has just developed a repair for these supposed common failures, and (shock) a piece on RMS......
Am I the only one getting bored stiff with all this doom and gloom. I say again, buy a car with the OPC warranty and just forget about it.
Great mag, but FFS CHANGE THE RECORD BOYS.
Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Friday 9th June 09:55
Its a very informative piece, and well written, aside from some typos 
and it does explain areas of failure in some depth.
But the whole text has the whiff of a 993 owner gloating over some rare issues with the 996, backed up with some very bold statements based on bar-room statistics.
and it does explain areas of failure in some depth. But the whole text has the whiff of a 993 owner gloating over some rare issues with the 996, backed up with some very bold statements based on bar-room statistics.
Vesuvius 996 said:
Am I the only one getting bored stiff with all this doom and gloom. I say again, buy a car with the OPC warranty and just forget about it.
Yes... but since the earliest 996's are approaching the ten year mark they won't be able to get an OPC warranty any more, not to mention those cars with too patchy a history/condition for the OPC's to put warranty. Haven't read the piece and don't necessarily disagree with the scaremongering claim but seems like a timely piece to me.
I bought a 996.....
We are exploding myths:
"..Read some magazines and internet forums and you'll be frightened off buying an early 996 because you're led to believe that the engines will fail on you. In reality, though, there are tens of thousands of the cars out there that are running beautifully, and its only a minority that have major problems"
This is from the first paragraph of the feature. I don't think this is painting the 3.4 in a bad light. I think we are trying to cut through the reams of internet hearsay, by providing some magazine hearsay, though we have spoken to experienced technicians at length. Yes, Autofarm and JZ (and others) make money from fixing broken Porsches. It doesn't mean they make things up just to generate business.
Speaking to various specialists who fix a lot of these engines is a pretty independent way of analysing any problems that may exist.
Sorry if it has upset you, but if you spend some time talking to the like of McHale and Belton they will tell you what generally goes wrong on all the various 911 engines.
EDITED TO ADD;
I think you should all go out and buy an issue so you can have an informed opinion of the article !!
We are exploding myths:
"..Read some magazines and internet forums and you'll be frightened off buying an early 996 because you're led to believe that the engines will fail on you. In reality, though, there are tens of thousands of the cars out there that are running beautifully, and its only a minority that have major problems"
This is from the first paragraph of the feature. I don't think this is painting the 3.4 in a bad light. I think we are trying to cut through the reams of internet hearsay, by providing some magazine hearsay, though we have spoken to experienced technicians at length. Yes, Autofarm and JZ (and others) make money from fixing broken Porsches. It doesn't mean they make things up just to generate business.
Speaking to various specialists who fix a lot of these engines is a pretty independent way of analysing any problems that may exist.
Sorry if it has upset you, but if you spend some time talking to the like of McHale and Belton they will tell you what generally goes wrong on all the various 911 engines.
EDITED TO ADD;
I think you should all go out and buy an issue so you can have an informed opinion of the article !!
Edited by johnfm on Friday 9th June 10:24
My issue arrived yesterday so I HAVE bought it!
You didn't upset anyone - I don't give a monkeys about these issues because I will just get it fixed by Porsche if anything happens!!
I just thought that the line about 90-95% of early 996s should be OK was a little bit based on hearsay and not fact - did you try to speak to Porsche or did they just refuse to discuss it?
You didn't upset anyone - I don't give a monkeys about these issues because I will just get it fixed by Porsche if anything happens!!
I just thought that the line about 90-95% of early 996s should be OK was a little bit based on hearsay and not fact - did you try to speak to Porsche or did they just refuse to discuss it?
Is it just coincidence that there's a great big banner for TOTAL911 on this thread? Good media buying if so, and better than the one the other day for an independent dealer in Slough that accompanied the thread about a Y-reg C4 with overspray...
Edited by gmk666 on Friday 9th June 10:45
johnfm said:
RE T911 banner - I think its random, but Ted will know.
Re: 95%, I think this is an estimate based on talking to specialists. I expect Phil tried Porsche Cars GB, but they don't comment much on things like engine failures, PCCB failures etc.
Re: 95%, I think this is an estimate based on talking to specialists. I expect Phil tried Porsche Cars GB, but they don't comment much on things like engine failures, PCCB failures etc.
That's my concern - I love the mag and don't want you to get clobbered by Porsche as a result of what might be referred to as "journalistic licence.."
johnfm said:
RE T911 banner - I think its random, but Ted will know.
Re: 95%, I think this is an estimate based on talking to specialists. I expect Phil tried Porsche Cars GB, but they don't comment much on things like engine failures, PCCB failures etc.
Re: 95%, I think this is an estimate based on talking to specialists. I expect Phil tried Porsche Cars GB, but they don't comment much on things like engine failures, PCCB failures etc.
it is possibly a keyword advert - as the google ads use...
Vesuvius 996 said:
Am I the only one getting bored stiff with all this doom and gloom. I say again, buy a car with the OPC warranty and just forget about it.
Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Friday 9th June 09:55
With all due respect, Vesuvius, I think a lot of people are getting sick of you carpet bombing threads with your "get an OPC warranty" advice. As others have said, early 996's will soon be ineligible for an OPC warranty. Using your own logic, that will make the cars worthless.
What is your specific advice to an owner/purchaser of a ten year old 996 ?
Probably fair enough.
I agree that 10 year old cars may drop when they are no longer eligible for the warranty. However one thing these threads have shown is that there are many people happy to buy without warranty so the market for these cars will not disappear. People still buy 993s, 964s etc without warranty = 996s will always find buyers too, and the market will determine their value.
If I have annoyed anyone then I apologise, but I still think that it is a high risk strategy to buy such an expensive to run car built with such expensive components and not hedge the risk of failure.
Slightly off topic...
But there is a lot of negativity about the 996, and there is a lot of noise about the problems (not mentioning any 3 letter ancronyms), how much a new engine costs etc etc...
And while a buyers guide is a good idea, talking about '5-10% failures' does put a bad spin on the car.
I've been reading up on the 996 as i'm shopping for one, and its very easy to be put off by all the discussion about failures, and hearing 'get an OPC warranty', and then hearing about how worthless they are when you have to claim...
At the end of the day, all cars have problems, Ferrari's are notoriously fragile, and yet the porsche you can use year round. So, there are some issues, you get that with almost every car, hell, the BMW M-series engine has the VANOS issue, which is a several grand repair, but you dont hear BMW owners saying you need to buy the earlier models because they didnt suffer from this..
But there is a lot of negativity about the 996, and there is a lot of noise about the problems (not mentioning any 3 letter ancronyms), how much a new engine costs etc etc...
And while a buyers guide is a good idea, talking about '5-10% failures' does put a bad spin on the car.
I've been reading up on the 996 as i'm shopping for one, and its very easy to be put off by all the discussion about failures, and hearing 'get an OPC warranty', and then hearing about how worthless they are when you have to claim...
At the end of the day, all cars have problems, Ferrari's are notoriously fragile, and yet the porsche you can use year round. So, there are some issues, you get that with almost every car, hell, the BMW M-series engine has the VANOS issue, which is a several grand repair, but you dont hear BMW owners saying you need to buy the earlier models because they didnt suffer from this..
I read the piece this morning asnd thought it was pretty well balanced, and that they had done a good job explaining the various problems that have cropped up with this engine as it has evolved since launch.
The one thing that I took away from it though, was that Porsche have been pretty cunning in the way they have dealt with things. The way the engine design has been upgraded has ironed out the problems. This sounds pretty good, until you realise they have been using their customers almost as am external test facility, but without admitting to a general failing or compensating them for the hassles.
I thought the '90% of cars seem to be running okay' sounded fair, until you think about the prospect of these failings hitting more and more of them as time goes by.
The most telling thing of all was the fact that neither of the engineers they consulted would consider owning a 3.4 996. This tallied with a quote from one of Europes biggest Porsche breakers in a P&911W article last year. He also said something similar about the quality of the 996/Boxter and was basing his statement on the huge number requests he was getting for engines and gearboxes.
The one thing that I took away from it though, was that Porsche have been pretty cunning in the way they have dealt with things. The way the engine design has been upgraded has ironed out the problems. This sounds pretty good, until you realise they have been using their customers almost as am external test facility, but without admitting to a general failing or compensating them for the hassles.
I thought the '90% of cars seem to be running okay' sounded fair, until you think about the prospect of these failings hitting more and more of them as time goes by.
The most telling thing of all was the fact that neither of the engineers they consulted would consider owning a 3.4 996. This tallied with a quote from one of Europes biggest Porsche breakers in a P&911W article last year. He also said something similar about the quality of the 996/Boxter and was basing his statement on the huge number requests he was getting for engines and gearboxes.
Vesuvius 996 said:
He also said something similar about the quality of the 996/Boxter and was basing his statement on the huge number requests he was getting for engines and gearboxes.
This could also be caused, of course, by them being bought by numpties from time to time and over-revved etc??
This could also be caused, of course, by them being bought by numpties from time to time and over-revved etc??
You get numpties buying all sorts of Porsches. If user error was the primary cause of people seeking engines from breakers, then surely Cayennes would be the most sought-after, no?
It *is* possible that there are design problems, there's no point taking an extreme view either side. Similarly, the TVR speed six saga has its extremist supporters and bashers - the former claiming all engine failures are due to user error (over revving, not warming up, wrong oil etc.), when there is ample evidence that this is not the case.
At least an attempt to get reasonable figures is to be applauded - it'd be easy from the joke RMS threads here to assume that 20+ percent of early 996 engines are going to lose all their oil, however if the figure is more like less than 5% then people can make a educated gamble.
So, do you feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk? [/dirtyharry]
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