997 TT + GT3 in the flesh
Discussion
I went along to OPC Chiswick's launch event of the 997 TT last night - very interesting. They had a Basalt Black, Arctic Silver and (Lapis?) Blue TT in there. The lighting did not do the Basalt justice (though I am sure it looks fantastic in daylight) and the Arctic is, IMHO, boring.
They also had the first RHD (prototype) GT3 ever in there - in white - and it looked FANTASTIC. Wow! It's off to Goodwood for a bit of light entertainment... and then, as will all Porsche prototypes, it will sadly be driven into a wall
.
They are sold out of TTs until Jan 2008 - so perhaps my Jan 2007 build slot is not too bad after all. Interestingly 70% of buyers are going for Tiptronic in the UK - far exceeding their 50% estimate (and increasing delivery times for Tip customers - so if you want a car quickly plump for manual). I look forward to seeing the new Meteor Grey (Seal replacement) - though this is not available on launch cars.
I walked away with a rather strange goody bag - which includes a strange (heavy) desk ornament of their variable turbine thingy. All in all great to see the new cars in the flesh.
Will
They also had the first RHD (prototype) GT3 ever in there - in white - and it looked FANTASTIC. Wow! It's off to Goodwood for a bit of light entertainment... and then, as will all Porsche prototypes, it will sadly be driven into a wall
. They are sold out of TTs until Jan 2008 - so perhaps my Jan 2007 build slot is not too bad after all. Interestingly 70% of buyers are going for Tiptronic in the UK - far exceeding their 50% estimate (and increasing delivery times for Tip customers - so if you want a car quickly plump for manual). I look forward to seeing the new Meteor Grey (Seal replacement) - though this is not available on launch cars.
I walked away with a rather strange goody bag - which includes a strange (heavy) desk ornament of their variable turbine thingy. All in all great to see the new cars in the flesh.
Will
Will. Fascinated to note from your profile that Aston "gave you your money back" on your V8 because of reliabilty issues. Care to expand? Also notice you were lucky enough to get your car in November - always thought mine was one of the very first and that came in late Dec.You got connections?
Edited by pugsey on Thursday 22 June 18:29
wrn said:
Interestingly 70% of buyers are going for Tiptronic in the UK - far exceeding their 50% estimate (and increasing delivery times for Tip customers - so if you want a car quickly plump for manual).
I'm going to a 997TT 'party' tomorrow, and am looking forward to seeing the car in the flesh. Because it's Germany, no doubt all the cars they have on show will be black or silver, though there's a slim chance of seeing it in something lively so I'll keep my fingers crossed.
As for the 70% Tiptronic, Porsche over here are expecting greater than 75% Tiptronic orders for the 997TT overall according to my local dealer. In fact he personally expects at least 8 out of every 10 orders he recieves to be a Tip. His dealership already has 60+ orders, and of those, the figure is closer to 90% than 80%. No doubt there are those that will point out that the Tip is supposed to be marginally quicker off the mark, or others that will point out that the Turbo just isn't that sort of car. Fair enough - if you want your AMGs made in Stuttgart and Weissach. In Germany, car drivers are divided into Kenners and Konners. I find it depressing that these days Porsche seems determined to chasing the fickle wallets of the former group, where they used to be more concerned with satisfying the latter. Which IMO is one thing if you're trying to make cars like the Boxster accessible to retards, but another if you're talking about the 'daddy' of the range. Put any of the above 90% into a 965 3.6TT, and no doubt they'd poo their designer undies.
Bah humbug.
On the plus-side - and I know that we shouldn't get hung up on residuals and just enjoy the car blah blah blah - if there are relatively few manuals out there I think that their residuals will hold up better. There will ALWAYS be enthusiasts out there who will settle for nothing other than a manual and will hunt them out. All the cheapest 996 TTs out there are tips... and the older the car gets the more enthusiasts hunt them out rather than rich City kids. It's a manual for me.
911 habit: unfortunately I did'nt take any snaps at last night's event - sorry!
pugsey: I received the first AMV8 into Stratstone's of London, which with hindsight was not clever. It had serious, multiple reliability issues (heavily documented on the AMOC forum) and spent most of its life on the back of a transporter. I was placated through excellent service from Aston Martin HQ - they offered my money back with no fight (though my dealer was very poor). I believe that these issues have now been sorted out - and it is a GORGEOUS car that sounds like NOTHING else. When I told AM that I was returning to Porsche I was told that 'German reliability is boring', which made me laugh!
Will
911 habit: unfortunately I did'nt take any snaps at last night's event - sorry!
pugsey: I received the first AMV8 into Stratstone's of London, which with hindsight was not clever. It had serious, multiple reliability issues (heavily documented on the AMOC forum) and spent most of its life on the back of a transporter. I was placated through excellent service from Aston Martin HQ - they offered my money back with no fight (though my dealer was very poor). I believe that these issues have now been sorted out - and it is a GORGEOUS car that sounds like NOTHING else. When I told AM that I was returning to Porsche I was told that 'German reliability is boring', which made me laugh!
Will
wrn said:
On the plus-side - and I know that we shouldn't get hung up on residuals and just enjoy the car blah blah blah - if there are relatively few manuals out there I think that their residuals will hold up better. There will ALWAYS be enthusiasts out there who will settle for nothing other than a manual and will hunt them out. All the cheapest 996 TTs out there are tips... and the older the car gets the more enthusiasts hunt them out rather than rich City kids. It's a manual for me.
911 habit: unfortunately I did'nt take any snaps at last night's event - sorry!
pugsey: I received the first AMV8 into Stratstone's of London, which with hindsight was not clever. It had serious, multiple reliability issues (heavily documented on the AMOC forum) and spent most of its life on the back of a transporter. I was placated through excellent service from Aston Martin HQ - they offered my money back with no fight (though my dealer was very poor). I believe that these issues have now been sorted out - and it is a GORGEOUS car that sounds like NOTHING else. When I told AM that I was returning to Porsche I was told that 'German reliability is boring', which made me laugh!
Will
911 habit: unfortunately I did'nt take any snaps at last night's event - sorry!
pugsey: I received the first AMV8 into Stratstone's of London, which with hindsight was not clever. It had serious, multiple reliability issues (heavily documented on the AMOC forum) and spent most of its life on the back of a transporter. I was placated through excellent service from Aston Martin HQ - they offered my money back with no fight (though my dealer was very poor). I believe that these issues have now been sorted out - and it is a GORGEOUS car that sounds like NOTHING else. When I told AM that I was returning to Porsche I was told that 'German reliability is boring', which made me laugh!
Will
And in a year or two the tipps will be replaced with the dsg box,think i'd order the manual.....
Vesuvius 996 said:
Given the supermodel Victoria Beckham lookalike the OPC Chiswick have got working there as a Sales Executive I am suprised you even saw the car......... 
I think I know who you are referring to - she's the one who's new, right? She tried to assure me that the GT3 in the showroom on Wednesday was a 997 GT3 RS - I spent a couple of minutes assuring her that it was not an RS before she conceeded that she was new and didn't really know exactly what she was talking about! Very sweet though...
Edited by wrn on Friday 23 June 10:56
wrn said:
Vesuvius 996 said:
Given the supermodel Victoria Beckham lookalike the OPC Chiswick have got working there as a Sales Executive I am suprised you even saw the car.........
I think I know who you are referring to - she's the one who's new, right? She tried to assure me that the GT3 in the showroom on Wednesday was a 997 GT3 RS - I spent a couple of minutes assuring her that it was not an RS before she conceeded that she was new and didn't really know exactly what she was talking about! Very sweet though...
Edited by wrn on Friday 23 June 10:56
No, different one.
I was at the 997tt launch at Chiswick too. I spent a good 20 min talking to Jeremy, one of the Porsche driver training instructors that was there for the launch, about the differences between manual and tip. I pointed out to him that it's very sad that most of these cars are ordered with the automatic gearbox that adds 35kg to the weight of the car. He was adamant that the auto box is the better option even for "assertive" driving, saying that the car is faster, in sports mode it holds gears, it doesn't change gears mid corner to unsettle the car, F1 cars don't have a stick, etc. He only went a bit quiet when I asked, if the auto box is the better option, why isn't it offered on the GT3... He also agreed with my "speculation" that the sequential box (DSG) will be available within 2 years. Apparently the problem they still haven't resolved is clutch wear.
I booked the first test drive slot next Sat at 9.00 am, expecting light traffic at that time. Their demonstrator is an auto car, it will be interesting to see how this car compares with my manual 996tt X50.
I also spotted the Victoria lookalike salesgirl, but stayed well away as I was under the watchful eye of Mrs Scarpia...
I booked the first test drive slot next Sat at 9.00 am, expecting light traffic at that time. Their demonstrator is an auto car, it will be interesting to see how this car compares with my manual 996tt X50.
I also spotted the Victoria lookalike salesgirl, but stayed well away as I was under the watchful eye of Mrs Scarpia...
Scarpia said:
I was at the 997tt launch at Chiswick too. I spent a good 20 min talking to Jeremy, one of the Porsche driver training instructors that was there for the launch, about the differences between manual and tip. I pointed out to him that it's very sad that most of these cars are ordered with the automatic gearbox that adds 35kg to the weight of the car. He was adamant that the auto box is the better option even for "assertive" driving, saying that the car is faster, in sports mode it holds gears, it doesn't change gears mid corner to unsettle the car, F1 cars don't have a stick, etc. He only went a bit quiet when I asked, if the auto box is the better option, why isn't it offered on the GT3... He also agreed with my "speculation" that the sequential box (DSG) will be available within 2 years. Apparently the problem they still haven't resolved is clutch wear.
I booked the first test drive slot next Sat at 9.00 am, expecting light traffic at that time. Their demonstrator is an auto car, it will be interesting to see how this car compares with my manual 996tt X50.
I also spotted the Victoria lookalike salesgirl, but stayed well away as I was under the watchful eye of Mrs Scarpia...
I booked the first test drive slot next Sat at 9.00 am, expecting light traffic at that time. Their demonstrator is an auto car, it will be interesting to see how this car compares with my manual 996tt X50.
I also spotted the Victoria lookalike salesgirl, but stayed well away as I was under the watchful eye of Mrs Scarpia...
I've had many conversations along these lines with various people at Motor Shows and at car launches. These guys are in the business of selling their cars, so I don't trust implicitly the line that the manual gearbox is a thing of the past. Ferrari in particular make a huge deal about selling the F1 box beacuse of 'it's the conjoined twin of its Formula One variant blahblah..Schumacher didn't get where he is...blah' , but then again, the fact that Ferrari Italy are making something like 50% gross on each gearbox may have a little more to do with things.
The argument I have been presented with on a number of occasions from the proponents of self shifters overlooks the fact that whether the computer is 'better' at it than I am or not (and I don't think it is yet), I like changing gear. If I didn't, I'd buy a Mercedes. I'm not getting paid 7 figures to find tenths on a circuit. In the case of a Porsche (or similar) I'm buying something that is supposed to be 'fun' and satisfying to drive. A two-pedal car removes one of the primary interfaces between me and my car, and thus reduces what I get out of piloting the thing.
As for 911 Turbos specifically - try one with a few miles under its belt and then tell me that it's the best thing since sliced bread. All the used examples I've driven feel terribly poor in relation to similar manual cars. I've said this before, but...I don't think they wear very well.
flemke said:
loach said:
, but then again, the fact that Ferrari Italy are making something like 50% gross on each gearbox may have a little more to do with things.
Sounds low. I'd have thought 100% is more like it - but what an honour to be able to drive exactly what Michael drives!
I suspect you're probably closer to the truth than I am. I remeber chatting to a dealer pal that told me Ferrari were putting some pressure on distributors to shift more F1s (not sure why this was necessary, when nearly everyone ordering a Ferrari these days wouldn't be seen dead without the 'Schumacher-Box'...) because they were making a fortune on them. He didn't go into specifics, but bonuses and incentives were involved. Not exactly 'stop the press' material, but this sort of thing certainly chips away at the altruistic arguments often heard from manufacturers about the realtive benefits of systems that save wear and tear on one's left shoe.
In any event, this battle is one long since won by the car makers. The perception amongst the vast majority of BMW M, Audi RS, Porsche, Aston Martin and Ferrari customers these days seems to be that a manual gearbox is something best left in a family hatchback. More's the pity if you're someone that likes driving, rather than just someone that likes to go fast.
Edited by loach on Saturday 24th June 22:58
johnny senna said:
loach said:
As for the 70% Tiptronic, Porsche over here are expecting greater than 75% Tiptronic orders for the 997TT overall according to my local dealer.
This is a very sad stat indeed.
Do you think that is because (IIRC) the auto TT has for the first time eclipsed the manula's top speed due to being regulated by engine management..?
Would that mean that people are going for the pub bragging rights of being the "fastest" model..?
Edited by Buffalo on Sunday 25th June 06:30
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff