m3 csl or gts rs???
Discussion
paulburrell said:
Try the RS and make your own mind up. IMHO there's no contest the Porker wins hands down every time.
Wins what?
I assume he's asking about the RS because he's interested in owning one of the best Porsches of recent years rather than some form of competition..
The RS is certainly not worth nearly twice the money of the CSL, but that's what it costs so if you like it enough then why not?
I skipped out of a CSL into a mkII Gt3.
Sidestepped the RS only because of ground clearance and the MkII had the lightweight bits.
But would add the single mass flywheel at the first opportunity.
Now here's the ultra hard subjective bit.
The GT3 is more of a challenge, but wow does it reward. It feels more wired into the central cortex. You push it and push it and it simply presses harder. And it moves. It flexes and squirms but it never feels fragile. It always feels tactile. It is, to me, my million dollar car.
The challenge for me with the CSL was getting it ultra smooth through town with it's wacky paddle cog shift.
Not quite what I bought it for.
Out on the road it felt a bit like a computer game --- it never pulled my heart strings.
But, the GT3 does feel a very strange fish when you first step into it. And at silly speeds on undulating tarmac it does like to explore the space available. It wanders silly time. The answer ? Just keep it on a radius of some degree and you can't go wrong. If you can ski fast, you can drive a GT3.
My measure of satisfaction. I often own three fast cars at once. I buy secondhand and trade them through, often three cars a year. I've sold the 993 all but RS (3.8), I've sold the Boxster (yes they are (in my view) that good), I've bought me a silly throw about ridiculously extrovert --- Renault Clio Trophy --- and I've kept the GT3.
And I wouldn't consider another CSL. Beautiful, a little remote, and in my view, rather fragile.
Why not try a GT3 Mk1, LHD if you need to, maybe even buy in europe where there are a few more around ? It'll cost an extra £5k but, to me, that's where the value is.
P.S. There are some great French Porshe mags such as Flat Six and --- I forget. Pick up an Easyjet to Geneva return and spend an hour in the mag shop before passport control. The best selction of UK, European and American car mags that I have ever seen anywhere. Ever.
Sidestepped the RS only because of ground clearance and the MkII had the lightweight bits.
But would add the single mass flywheel at the first opportunity.
Now here's the ultra hard subjective bit.
The GT3 is more of a challenge, but wow does it reward. It feels more wired into the central cortex. You push it and push it and it simply presses harder. And it moves. It flexes and squirms but it never feels fragile. It always feels tactile. It is, to me, my million dollar car.
The challenge for me with the CSL was getting it ultra smooth through town with it's wacky paddle cog shift.
Not quite what I bought it for.
Out on the road it felt a bit like a computer game --- it never pulled my heart strings.
But, the GT3 does feel a very strange fish when you first step into it. And at silly speeds on undulating tarmac it does like to explore the space available. It wanders silly time. The answer ? Just keep it on a radius of some degree and you can't go wrong. If you can ski fast, you can drive a GT3.
My measure of satisfaction. I often own three fast cars at once. I buy secondhand and trade them through, often three cars a year. I've sold the 993 all but RS (3.8), I've sold the Boxster (yes they are (in my view) that good), I've bought me a silly throw about ridiculously extrovert --- Renault Clio Trophy --- and I've kept the GT3.
And I wouldn't consider another CSL. Beautiful, a little remote, and in my view, rather fragile.
Why not try a GT3 Mk1, LHD if you need to, maybe even buy in europe where there are a few more around ? It'll cost an extra £5k but, to me, that's where the value is.
P.S. There are some great French Porshe mags such as Flat Six and --- I forget. Pick up an Easyjet to Geneva return and spend an hour in the mag shop before passport control. The best selction of UK, European and American car mags that I have ever seen anywhere. Ever.
Porsche GT3 said:
DoctorD said:
The RS is certainly not worth nearly twice the money of the CSL, but that's what it costs so if you like it enough then why not?
Says who?? For me it was (I also thought of a CSL as I think it's a great car). The RS however is very special
Because no car is worth what we pay for them. They're not a rational purchase. If you like something and you can afford it, then go for it. I've either owned or driven all of them and wouldn't use 'worth' as a term to compare them. Personally I wouldn't sell my CSL for a GT3RS, I made that choice 2 years ago and am happy to stick by it and I still cannot bring myself to go through with my 997 GT3RS purchase for the very same reason.
nickbell3 said:
Get the CSL tweaked by the correct person and it will reward big time. Faster than a GT3 RS. I tried to get rid of the CSL and cant. I love RS's and hope to own one at some stage but at present IMO it comes a firm second.
Tweak an RS and the natural balance is restored
nickbell3 said:
Get the CSL tweaked by the correct person and it will reward big time. Faster than a GT3 RS. I tried to get rid of the CSL and cant. I love RS's and hope to own one at some stage but at present IMO it comes a firm second.
So if it comes second why do you hope to own one? That sentance should tell anyone what they need to know. The CSL, stunning and quick though it is will never be as aspirational as the Porsche. CSL is a great car, remove money and it is still close, but I believe the RS and GT3 are special in a way the CSL is not. I have had years of M3's, love them, but I just bought a GT3 because it is special as well as stunning to look at, own, and most important of all, drive.
On a track there is very little in it. One a normal road I would suggest the CSL would be quicker in most peoples hands due to its more pliant ride. But at the final 10 of 10ths, on a circuit the GT3 and RS are quicker, and at 5 mph in a GT3 you know your in a thoroughbread, in a CSL you are in a 3 series, though the engine noise on a CSL is just to die for!
Edited by housemaster on Saturday 29th July 16:44
Leave trackday ability aside for minute....
The GT3RS is a supercar. People point, stare, smile and react the way they would to a Ferrari. That's odd because there are no shortage of 911s almost anywhere in the UK. But it's still true. This supercar draw and it's near-iconic status - it's fabulous and it all adds to the experience (if any of you EVER used yours on the road).
The CSL - well there's no comparison really.
The GT3RS is a supercar. People point, stare, smile and react the way they would to a Ferrari. That's odd because there are no shortage of 911s almost anywhere in the UK. But it's still true. This supercar draw and it's near-iconic status - it's fabulous and it all adds to the experience (if any of you EVER used yours on the road).
The CSL - well there's no comparison really.
nickbell3 said:
Get the CSL tweaked by the correct person and it will reward big time. Faster than a GT3 RS. I tried to get rid of the CSL and cant. I love RS's and hope to own one at some stage but at present IMO it comes a firm second.
The RS is a faster car, with a track set up it is considerably faster than a comparibaly set up CSL but I think that pound for pound, the CSL is a better value car for the money
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