944 Turbo as a track day tool?
Discussion
You'll see from another thread that I have been considering a 968CS because I want to do a few track days. However, there does not appear to be many for sale with the desirable MO30 set up at a price that I want to pay!
However, I have been offered a 944 Turbo in Silver Rose spec - 250 bhp, MO30 (apart from the adjustable Konis), LSD, and the usual interior - leather sports seats, air con etc. Its got low miles and is at a decent price. What does anyone think of this as a track day tool? Sure the car is a bit heavier (any guesses? 100Kg-150Kg??) but it will be used on the road as well and I might only do half a dozen track days a year, so at less than half the price of a 968CS is this a reasonable compromise?
Perhaps I can take the interior out to lighten things a bit?
Perhaps I can use the cash saved to do more track days!
Any thoughts?
However, I have been offered a 944 Turbo in Silver Rose spec - 250 bhp, MO30 (apart from the adjustable Konis), LSD, and the usual interior - leather sports seats, air con etc. Its got low miles and is at a decent price. What does anyone think of this as a track day tool? Sure the car is a bit heavier (any guesses? 100Kg-150Kg??) but it will be used on the road as well and I might only do half a dozen track days a year, so at less than half the price of a 968CS is this a reasonable compromise?
Perhaps I can take the interior out to lighten things a bit?
Perhaps I can use the cash saved to do more track days!
Any thoughts?
Not that I am biased :] (and I'm glad you might avoid the overpriced nonsense that is the 968 CS)
Very easy to make it lighter than the 968CS
www.asco96.dsl.pipex.com/944t/weight.htm
In std form even with M030 they roll - a lot (fit 968 M030 bars)
Then you can add 50bhp for a few hundred quid (if you need it)
Very easy to make it lighter than the 968CS
www.asco96.dsl.pipex.com/944t/weight.htm
In std form even with M030 they roll - a lot (fit 968 M030 bars)
Then you can add 50bhp for a few hundred quid (if you need it)
paul968 said:
Yes, but that is the base figure with no options
Is it,though?
Both the Autocar & Motor road tests were taken at Milbrook proving ground, where I assume they have weighed the cars, since they have both kerb and test weights listed.
Test weights:
1494kg 944T
1470kg 968CS
I love these old road test compilation books!
Before I bought my S2 I tested a 968CS albeit on the road and found them to drive virtually identically. Chuck CS M030 at an S2 or a turbo and do some lightening and have yourself a cheap (read half the price) 944 'Clubsport', with the S2 you're starting with a lighter package anyway... I'd have the turbo if I had my chance again.
jaseb said:
Before I bought my S2 I tested a 968CS albeit on the road and found them to drive virtually identically
They are virtually identical, put an S2/Turbo and a CS on lifts and you'll be struggling to find many differences,The chassis options on the CS were also available on the 944, and M030 wasn't standard on the CS anyway.(it's a bit stiff for typical british roads imho)
Not saying the CS is not a great car;of course it is, but it is essentially a de-optioned S2 with a facelift and Variocam(which gives marginal performance gains,at best). Whether it justifys double the price is another matter.
Edited by HAB on Saturday 29th July 13:35
HAB said:
Not saying the CS is not a great car;of course it is, but it is essentially a de-optioned S2 with a facelift and Variocam(which gives marginal performance gains,at best). Whether it justifys double the price is another matter.
..and a lovely close ratio 6 speed gearbox & oil cooled pistons & 17" wheels & decent seats...
SS7
Well I've had both. First 944t then 968CS and now 944t as track cars. I found the 968 easier on track by a mile due to its smooth power, ABS and stiffer suspension. Mine was an early 944 however. I now have the same 944 but with 968 ARBs and adjustable dampers etc. First time on track this Thursday at Silverstone - so we'll see.
I am neither experienced nor gifted as a track driver and probably the 968CS suited me best. It was very very forgiving. But the 944 t is more powerful and in more experienced hands is probably the faster car. I bought it because it was 70% cheaper than a 968CS
I have seen Matt's (fesuvious) car, the one mentioned earlier. if you are serious it is well worth a look. Don't tell him but I probably should have bought that one
I am neither experienced nor gifted as a track driver and probably the 968CS suited me best. It was very very forgiving. But the 944 t is more powerful and in more experienced hands is probably the faster car. I bought it because it was 70% cheaper than a 968CS
I have seen Matt's (fesuvious) car, the one mentioned earlier. if you are serious it is well worth a look. Don't tell him but I probably should have bought that one
Edited by james s on Monday 31st July 12:37
Prior to my964 I had an S2 with adjustable Konis, uprated springs and ARBs and it drove just like a CS.
IMO there's no right or wrong answer here. The performance of a standard turbo, S2 and CS are as near as damit the same and if it's a power trip your after none are suitable. I sold my S2 simply because there was no way of improving the engine power.
All three have their merits; the CS is expensive for what it is ( and it it's basicly a de-optioned S2) but it has provenence doesn't really need any mods for track work, and you'll get your money back if you sell. The turbo gives you access to the wonderful world of turbo tuning and it's promise of monster power. Suitably uprated the turbo will be the faster track car but at the expense of reliability and running costs. The S2 is the cheapest to buy, the engines are bullet proof ( plastic camchain tensioner guide not withstanding) and chipped make the same power as a CS. 17inch wheels cost buttons to buy and the 5spd gear box has well judged ratios. The 6spd box in the CS has a higher 6th so the advantage of more gears is less than might be thought.
Given a choice I'd go for the turbo as your not going to be stuck later with a car you feel is underpowered and no way of changing the situation for half sensible money.
IMO there's no right or wrong answer here. The performance of a standard turbo, S2 and CS are as near as damit the same and if it's a power trip your after none are suitable. I sold my S2 simply because there was no way of improving the engine power.
All three have their merits; the CS is expensive for what it is ( and it it's basicly a de-optioned S2) but it has provenence doesn't really need any mods for track work, and you'll get your money back if you sell. The turbo gives you access to the wonderful world of turbo tuning and it's promise of monster power. Suitably uprated the turbo will be the faster track car but at the expense of reliability and running costs. The S2 is the cheapest to buy, the engines are bullet proof ( plastic camchain tensioner guide not withstanding) and chipped make the same power as a CS. 17inch wheels cost buttons to buy and the 5spd gear box has well judged ratios. The 6spd box in the CS has a higher 6th so the advantage of more gears is less than might be thought.
Given a choice I'd go for the turbo as your not going to be stuck later with a car you feel is underpowered and no way of changing the situation for half sensible money.
Edited by tony.t on Monday 31st July 12:40
Super_Marv said:
tony.t said:
17inch wheels cost buttons to buy
Au contraire, proper 968 CS wheels in the right size and the correct offsets are very hard, and usually expensive to come by.
Damn, I was going to offer 'buttons' to buy a spare set for mine! A friend was just offered a set of refurbed Cup2's by a specialist; a snip at £800-.
SS7
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