964RS brakes - alternatives?
Discussion
escobar said:
Are the 'Alcon' brakes that keep getting mentioned exclusive to GT3's?
I did ask JZM that question - I was told they would not fit.
Currently I run standard discs and calipers and Pagid Yellow's - and 17" rims.
I'm not sure which fluid I'm on - but as Manthey look after the car it will be a decent spec. (and not cheap)!
davyboy said:
I would have thought the RS brakes were more than up to the job?
..maybe not?
..maybe not?
If you're used to a regular car (even a regulr 911) then standard RS brakes (especially with uprated pads) are fantastic. However, once you drive GT3's, or a 993RS Clubsport, you realise what you're missing.
993RSR & GT3's have wider front tyres - (964RS is 205 or 215?) so that grip is where most of the difference may lie.
Also could you have a tired master cylinder? You can get after market separate bell-housing/rotors which will reduce unsprung weight - these also unspring your wallet...
Also could you have a tired master cylinder? You can get after market separate bell-housing/rotors which will reduce unsprung weight - these also unspring your wallet...
Joe911 said:
davyboy said:
I would have thought the RS brakes were more than up to the job?
..maybe not?
..maybe not?
If you're used to a regular car (even a regulr 911) then standard RS brakes (especially with uprated pads) are fantastic. However, once you drive GT3's, or a 993RS Clubsport, you realise what you're missing.
I would have thought the RS brakes would be ok as well.
It might not be the brakes themselves as there's a few other variables here; GT3s and 993 have softer front suspension, also they are heavier so you get more weight over the front. tyre choice makes a difference too of course, I always feel Dunlop DO1Js are better than MPSCs under braking.
My C2 runs big reds and a recent change to the 993tt hydraulics and ABS has totaly transformed the braking. I appreciate the RS runs a hydraulic system but I would have thought the ABS brains of the 993 and GT3 will be far more advanced.
Might be easier to cut some weight out of the car.
Tony
What do you mean by that?
RS brakes are fantastic, no denying it, what I am asking is whether there is something even better.
Yes, of course there are other factors. I am running wider fronts tyres and have Dunlop SSR's - I would prefer to run MPSC's, but the price difference is too great at the mo'. I have vastly improve suspension already (KW's). I don't do road driving in the RS - my car only runs on the NS.
Yes, the GT3 ABS is considerably better - but since I uprated the suspension I rarely ABS.
You saying I'm fat?
What weight can be cut from an RS? Some for sure, but not much.
tony.t said:
I would have thought the RS brakes would be ok as well.
What do you mean by that?
RS brakes are fantastic, no denying it, what I am asking is whether there is something even better.
tony.t said:
It might not be the brakes themselves as there's a few other variables here; GT3s and 993 have softer front suspension, also they are heavier so you get more weight over the front. tyre choice makes a difference too of course, I always feel Dunlop DO1Js are better than MPSCs under braking.
Yes, of course there are other factors. I am running wider fronts tyres and have Dunlop SSR's - I would prefer to run MPSC's, but the price difference is too great at the mo'. I have vastly improve suspension already (KW's). I don't do road driving in the RS - my car only runs on the NS.
tony.t said:
My C2 runs big reds and a recent change to the 993tt hydraulics and ABS has totaly transformed the braking. I appreciate the RS runs a hydraulic system but I would have thought the ABS brains of the 993 and GT3 will be far more advanced.
Yes, the GT3 ABS is considerably better - but since I uprated the suspension I rarely ABS.
tony.t said:
Might be easier to cut some weight out of the car.
You saying I'm fat?
What weight can be cut from an RS? Some for sure, but not much.
WilliBetz said:
Guess you could reduce the unsprung weight by moving to smaller discs? 
Cheers. Perhaps I should detune the engine too
WilliBetz said:
Ok, seriously, if you aren't triggering the ABS too much and the brakes aren't fading, then won't stickier tyres be more effective (cost and performance-wise) than a brake system upgrade?
Maybe, and next time I replace tyres (after using the set of SSR's that I have waiting to go on now) I will be going back to MPSC's (which I prefer anyway).
However, having spoken with Stefan about his experiences by going to Alcon's on his GT3 (better braking and, importantly, longer life) I wondered whether they were available for an RS (no they're not), and whether there were other options. I'd be really interested to hear from someone running Big Reds on a 964RS - was it a marked improvement, or in fact, was tyre grip still a limiting factor causing little noticeable improvement?
I occasionally experience an unsettling feeling through the brake pedal (perhaps sometimes at SX, or after the PG jump, for example) - it is difficult to describe precisely - and the only thing that I can put it down to is maybe "pad knockback" - but I have no way of knowing for sure.
www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_knockback.shtml
Joe911 said:
WilliBetz said:
Guess you could reduce the unsprung weight by moving to smaller discs?
Cheers. Perhaps I should detune the engine too
I like your thinking. You could try taking some bits off, to save weight. Going further, have you considered how much all that oil weighs?
Joe911 said:
I'd be really interested to hear from someone running Big Reds on a 964RS - was it a marked improvement, or in fact, was tyre grip still a limiting factor causing little noticeable improvement?
If you want to go for Big Reds, I may know of a set (if I can think what I did with them!). You would have to accept that they're now Big Oranges, though... (and, fwiw (sfa), I think tyre grip and front suspension setup will remain limiting factors)
Joe911 said:
I occasionally experience an unsettling feeling through the brake pedal (perhaps sometimes at SX, or after the PG jump, for example) - it is difficult to describe precisely - and the only thing that I can put it down to is maybe "pad knockback" - but I have no way of knowing for sure.
I can confirm that that's normal, unless you're in something like a Skoda VRs. In which case the unsettling feeling will be through the throttle.
You'ld have to ask Buster about pad knock-off. I know nothing, but seem to remember it warrants its own chapter in the racing driver's big book of excuses.
WilliBetz
willibetz said:
Joe911 said:
I'd be really interested to hear from someone running Big Reds on a 964RS - was it a marked improvement, or in fact, was tyre grip still a limiting factor causing little noticeable improvement?
If you want to go for Big Reds, I may know of a set (if I can think what I did with them!). You would have to accept that they're now Big Oranges, though... (and, fwiw (sfa), I think tyre grip and front suspension setup will remain limiting factors)
Very interested - how come they're orange? And how come you have a set lurking, if I might ask? (perhaps we should take this conversation off to email?)
You'll have to forgive me If I don't discuss it with Buster!
Edited by Joe911 on Tuesday 5th September 15:22
Joe911 said:
Very interested - how come they're orange? And how come you have a set lurking, if I might ask? (perhaps we should take this conversation off to email?)
Came from the white car. I'll have a look - they shouldn't be too hard to find, being (as the name implies) large and brightly coloured.
They went orange with age, having repeatedly got hot and bothered. I aspire to do likewise.
WilliBetz
PS. Will email you.
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