944 Turbo v 968.............??
Discussion
Thinking about getting another car for fun days and sundays, thought about a 944 Turbo or a 968. I read evrybody raves about the 968 and the 'best handling front engined car' and all that but is it really that much better over a 968 ?? A 968 is going to cost a few grand more but a tidy 944T will no doubt be bags of fun. Anybody had any experience of these two cars ??
Thanks in anticipation.
Simon.
Thanks in anticipation.
Simon.
simonb9 said:
I read evrybody raves about the 968 and the 'best handling front engined car' and all that
Don't even bother about a 968 unless you plan to spend a lot to make it as fast as a 944 turbo, which is nigh on impossible if you don't want to spend its value in upgrades.
The turbo will require more look after but it's the price to pay for the better car.
The S2 will do nearly as well as the 968 for less than half the price.
Edited by Thom on Monday 25th September 18:36
The six speed box of the 968 is nice and there are lots of subtle changes to the 968 that will make it a better track car. However an S2 with a KW kit and a 968 box will be a good trackday weapon. I wouldnt go 944 turbo for the track, its defo a faster street car, but you will spend a lot more ££ running it hard on the track hence why you dont meet many on trackdays. Learn to drive an NA car fast and perfect lines before you start down the turbo route.
Just my 2p, feel free to contradict...
1) 951 will cost slightly more than a 968 to run as a dedicated trackday car. But these costs are offset by the lower initial purchase price. Weight-wise there's not actually that much between a 968CS and a 951.
2) The boost characteristics of the 951 engine are not to everyone's liking, BUT with an aftermarket chip and a good rolling road session this can be significantly reduced to near-atmo levels of power curve if wanted.
3) 300bhp from a 951 costs peanuts. You'd probably need a supercharger to get that amount of power from a 968, and if you get the handling right you WILL want to go for more power. Much easier and cheaper to get the handling right on a 951 and then pick a power point, whether it be 300, 350, 400, 450 bhp.
4) When Porsche wanted to showcase their best track car in a one-make series they chose the 951. Before the Carrera Cup (964, 993, 996, 997) the original, and best, was the 944 turbo. They even made a road-going version. I believe they spent all of two minutes devising the name of the car... 944 turbo cup.
5) I can't agree that there are fewer trackday 951's than 968's. I have seen more 944T's on track than ever I have seen 968's of all variants.
6) 968's are for gays.
1) 951 will cost slightly more than a 968 to run as a dedicated trackday car. But these costs are offset by the lower initial purchase price. Weight-wise there's not actually that much between a 968CS and a 951.
2) The boost characteristics of the 951 engine are not to everyone's liking, BUT with an aftermarket chip and a good rolling road session this can be significantly reduced to near-atmo levels of power curve if wanted.
3) 300bhp from a 951 costs peanuts. You'd probably need a supercharger to get that amount of power from a 968, and if you get the handling right you WILL want to go for more power. Much easier and cheaper to get the handling right on a 951 and then pick a power point, whether it be 300, 350, 400, 450 bhp.
4) When Porsche wanted to showcase their best track car in a one-make series they chose the 951. Before the Carrera Cup (964, 993, 996, 997) the original, and best, was the 944 turbo. They even made a road-going version. I believe they spent all of two minutes devising the name of the car... 944 turbo cup.
5) I can't agree that there are fewer trackday 951's than 968's. I have seen more 944T's on track than ever I have seen 968's of all variants.
6) 968's are for gays.
nick_968 said:
The six speed box of the 968 is nice and there are lots of subtle changes to the 968 that will make it a better track car.
Care to point out a few of these subtle changes? I've an S2 & a 968 (long story) but apart from wheel size & torsion bar diameter I can't see any other differences which makes one better than the other. Perhaps too much is placed on the Autocar articles re. the 968CS but the S2 was also their "best handling" winner in the late 80's.
Variocam - giving broader torque spread
Sequential Fuel Injection that is optimised for 98 (good chips available for cheap power increase)
Castor Mounts and A Arms (stronger and allow use of larger wheels)
Piston Squirters (keep pistons cooler under extended periods of hard use)
Stronger Block (less likely to crack)
Modified Sump (I think)
Hydraulic Self Adjusting Belt Tensioner (saves time)
Slightly Fatter Roll Bars (flatter cornering)
M030 option was an improvement over 944 M030
Torsen LSD was option on 93 on cars
There are more but these are the ones that spring to mind from memory.
Sequential Fuel Injection that is optimised for 98 (good chips available for cheap power increase)
Castor Mounts and A Arms (stronger and allow use of larger wheels)
Piston Squirters (keep pistons cooler under extended periods of hard use)
Stronger Block (less likely to crack)
Modified Sump (I think)
Hydraulic Self Adjusting Belt Tensioner (saves time)
Slightly Fatter Roll Bars (flatter cornering)
M030 option was an improvement over 944 M030
Torsen LSD was option on 93 on cars
There are more but these are the ones that spring to mind from memory.
)CS/ Sport have different springs for lower but not stiffer ride. Shocks are the same on all 968's. All 968's are is stiffer than S2, but I thought that was taken as read as the torsion bars are mentioned above, front springs have to be stiffer to match.
Try timing laps back to back with your S2 and then the 968 to see the difference.
Try timing laps back to back with your S2 and then the 968 to see the difference.
cuneus said:
As has been said many times:
968 .. grossly overpriced
you want a 944 turbo with mild tuning and some suspension bits = much cheaper, lighter and a lot quicker
968 .. grossly overpriced
you want a 944 turbo with mild tuning and some suspension bits = much cheaper, lighter and a lot quicker
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say
'As has been said many times (by 944 turbo owners) :'
For some reason a lot of them seem to resent the 968. I fail to see why, as most 968 owners think turbos are great cars too.
Not everyone wants the same thing from a car. If you want maximum power above all else then a modified turbo is your best bet. If you are on a budget and want a cheap effective track car then modifying an S2 may be a good alternative. If on the other hand you don't want to start modifying your car and want an effective track car out of the box, or you prefer the more modern looks and rarity of the 968, or you want a younger car, or you don't like the throttle characteristics of a turbo, then a 968 may be right for you.
There is no right or wrong. All are great cars. Just get the one that ticks your boxes.
Paul
Thanks for all the input guys, didn't quite expect such a response !! I thought everybody would be 911 mad !!
I see in the classifieds theres a 944 S2 SE, seems a limited edition model with 225 bhp, probably best to go for something like, well under half the money of a 968 and still cheaper then a Turbo. Anything to worry about concerning these engines other than normal belt issues, etc. ?? Don't blow up all of a sudden with horrendous bills or the like ?? A lot of cars of this age seem to have well over 100,000, some up to 150,000 and still going strong.
I see in the classifieds theres a 944 S2 SE, seems a limited edition model with 225 bhp, probably best to go for something like, well under half the money of a 968 and still cheaper then a Turbo. Anything to worry about concerning these engines other than normal belt issues, etc. ?? Don't blow up all of a sudden with horrendous bills or the like ?? A lot of cars of this age seem to have well over 100,000, some up to 150,000 and still going strong.
The 951 will work out more in the long run, thats one of the reasons the 968 is a more popular track car. The only way is if you can do all the work yourself, even then it is still likely to cost more in parts. You cant get away from the higher running costs of a turbo. I would agree the 951 is much better value as a road car, but people often underestimate the costs of a track car.
paul968 said:
For some reason a lot of them seem to resent the 968. I fail to see why, as most 968 owners think turbos are great cars too.
I agree, it seems to me that 944 owners often harbour a lot of resentment for the 968. Apparently a Turbo is easier to "sort" to get higher power. But assuming you're wanting a car to drive, rather than to tinker with in the garage and brag about power down the pub, I'd say a 944S2 takes some beating.
The 968 is a very good car, but to my mind it doesn't have enough over the 944S2 to justify the extra cost. Besides which, the 944 has proper pop-up headlamps! Classic!
944S2, Guards Red, Wheat leather w/ red piping, Cup alloys, £6.5k. Where do I sign?
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