997 GT3RS mini site

[doctorpepper]

Not sure if its been posted before but it sounds good enough to post again...and again...and again....

www.porsche.com/all/911gt3rs/germany.aspx

Click the "webspecial starten" link... Wait for the grey track to be filled in orange an turn up the sound!!!

[flemke]

doctorpepper said:

Not sure if its been posted before but it sounds good enough to post again...and again...and again....

www.porsche.com/all/911gt3rs/germany.aspx

Click the "webspecial starten" link... Wait for the grey track to be filled in orange an turn up the sound!!!

Thanks for the link, doc.

I'm still waiting to hear the rationale for buying the RS rather than the Club Sport, but that doesn't take away from a fun clip.

[vpr]

flemke said:

I'm still waiting to hear the rationale for buying the RS rather than the Club Sport, but that doesn't take away from a fun clip.

Just Becacause............

A GT3 in my favourite flavour with the proper seats and a few bits was getting naughtily close to the price of an RS anyhow.....Not only that but rarity and residuals all play a part........Then there's all the technical stuff the RS has over the GT3.....But don't ask me.

Wicked clip

[flemke]

vpr said:

A GT3 in my favourite flavour with the proper seats and a few bits was getting naughtily close to the price of an RS anyhow.....Not only that but rarity and residuals all play a part........Then there's all the technical stuff the RS has over the GT3.....

What exactly are all these special bits?

- Perspex rear window: gets scratched and needs replacing. Can easily be retrofitted to CS
- Also retrofittable with ease: rear wing, single mass flywheel
- The gear ratios may be different - I don't know - but if they were, what difference would it make anyhow?
- The orange and green are great colours if you don't see them too often. As with the 996 RS in white with red or blue trim, however, too much of a good thing makes it a less good thing.
I guarantee you that within a year we will be sick to the back teeth of seeing orange and green RSs, even though as a one-off either may be a fine colour.

A CS with carbon seats will supposedly weigh less than the RS does.
Are you going to tell me that legions of track-day heroes are really going to need that extra 4 cm of rear track width? I don't think so!
I've got nothing against the RS, except that it will be offered in too few colours and for too high a premium in relation to what P. are providing in return.

At least with the 996 RS there was something of a reason to make a somewhat different car. When P. are making the two models simultaneously, and almost identically, one begins to wonder about the whole proposition.

[997gt3]

And also the GT3 RS has the same size engine and output as the standard GT3 - is this normal practice?
I'd have thought there would have been an increase for the RS say 3.8 litre and 430 to 450 BHP.

[flemke]

997gt3 said:

And also the GT3 RS has the same size engine and output as the standard GT3 - is this normal practice?
I'd have thought there would have been an increase for the RS say 3.8 litre and 430 to 450 BHP.

Well, keeping the same displacement is what they did in the 996s.
There are people who will tell you that P. made the 996 RS engine slightly differently from the standard MkII, and I'm bound to say that in the RSs that I've driven the engines did feel slightly stronger than the MkII's.
Nominally, the engines in both models had 381.

[glenn mcmenamin]

flemke said:

vpr said:

A GT3 in my favourite flavour with the proper seats and a few bits was getting naughtily close to the price of an RS anyhow.....Not only that but rarity and residuals all play a part........Then there's all the technical stuff the RS has over the GT3.....

What exactly are all these special bits?

- Perspex rear window: gets scratched and needs replacing. Can easily be retrofitted to CS
- Also retrofittable with ease: rear wing, single mass flywheel
- The gear ratios may be different - I don't know - but if they were, what difference would it make anyhow?
- The orange and green are great colours if you don't see them too often. As with the 996 RS in white with red or blue trim, however, too much of a good thing makes it a less good thing.
I guarantee you that within a year we will be sick to the back teeth of seeing orange and green RSs, even though as a one-off either may be a fine colour.

A CS with carbon seats will supposedly weigh less than the RS does.
Are you going to tell me that legions of track-day heroes are really going to need that extra 4 cm of rear track width? I don't think so!
I've got nothing against the RS, except that it will be offered in too few colours and for too high a premium in relation to what P. are providing in return.

At least with the 996 RS there was something of a reason to make a somewhat different car. When P. are making the two models simultaneously, and almost identically, one begins to wonder about the whole proposition.

Wider rear track due to wide body, and RSR rear suspension, this will be the biggest difference in feel IMO

It should also lower the centre of gravity too......

G.

[doctorpepper]

flemke said:

I guarantee you that within a year we will be sick to the back teeth of seeing orange and green RSs, even though as a one-off either may be a fine colour.

I guess it'll take the owners of these cars less time to get sick of cleaning all the dead flies of the fronts of them. I was talking to an owner of an orange 2.7RS and he said its fine if you drive it when the bugs are asleep otherwise they just see it as a great big flower... travelling really quickly! it was Splat city!

..makes much more sense to buy white

[flemke]

glenn mcmenamin said:

Wider rear track due to wide body, and RSR rear suspension, this will be the biggest difference in feel IMO

It should also lower the centre of gravity too......

G.

Glenn,

I'm not sure how having a wider steel roof, scuttle and rear deck lowers the CoG. If you mean that the RS will have a lower ride height as standard, okay, but that's simple to change on the CS.

What is the RSR rear suspension: the same control arms mounted at the same geometric locations, except that they are farther apart laterally?
Alternatively, do they actually use longer arms? I thought that the shells were C4 shells and, as such, used the same length of CAs as the C2s.
If the CAs' are longer, that could be meaningful, although I still suspect that for all except the Mike Rockenfellers and Sascha Maassens the difference would be nigh undetectable.

[glenn mcmenamin]

flemke said:

glenn mcmenamin said:

Wider rear track due to wide body, and RSR rear suspension, this will be the biggest difference in feel IMO

It should also lower the centre of gravity too......

G.

Glenn,

I'm not sure how having a wider steel roof, scuttle and rear deck lowers the CoG. If you mean that the RS will have a lower ride height as standard, okay, but that's simple to change on the CS.

What is the RSR rear suspension: the same control arms mounted at the same geometric locations, except that they are farther apart laterally?
Alternatively, do they actually use longer arms? I thought that the shells were C4 shells and, as such, used the same length of CAs as the C2s.
If the CAs' are longer, that could be meaningful, although I still suspect that for all except the Mike Rockenfellers and Sascha Maassens the difference would be nigh undetectable.

I don't think the roof will be any wider, they are same width for narrow/wide body aren't they, and just the rear arches differ ??, the fact that some of the weight saving is high up, i.e. windows and spoiler, these alone should help lower the centre of gravity....

As for the suspension, the only thing i know, is that it has different rear wheel carriers, hence one of the main
reasons the car exists, due to the homologation of the RSR....

I know very little about the technicals of suspension (or anything else for that matter), so won't argue with you
about how usefull this will be....

I have heard that a well known Carrera cup winning driver has tested the RS, and said that it is deff quicker than the outgoing RS, mainly
due to the fact that it is easier to drive on the limit, some may take that as a bad thing, in terms of involvement etc...

All just stuff i have heard, but the real proof will be in the pudding, i would be very surprised if Porsche comes out
with a dudd....

G.

Edited by glenn mcmenamin on Sunday 8th October 22:26

Edited by glenn mcmenamin on Sunday 8th October 22:30

[flemke]

glenn mcmenamin said:

I have heard that a well known Carrera cup winning driver has tested the RS, and said that it is deff quicker than the outgoing RS, mainly
due to the fact that it is easier to drive on the limit, some may take that as a bad thing, in terms of involvement etc...

All just stuff i have heard, but the real proof will be in the pudding, i would be very surprised if Porsche comes out
with a dudd....

G.

Okay.

I'm hardly a credible judge, but the 997GT3CS definitely seems easier to drive on the limit than the 996RS is, so one would hope that the 97RS is as well.

For sure the car will not be a dud, and I was not trying to suggest that it will be.
It's just that many of us were disappointed that the 996RS was not more different from, more pared down than, the 996GT3CS, and, surprisingly, it seems that the gap between the 997CS and RS will be narrower still.
When you consider that the CS with carbon seats will supposedly weigh less than the RS, you have to wonder what the point is.

The P. factory were after two things. The marketing department wanted something with pizzazz and big margins, and Motorsports wanted a wider track.
Those two criteria are great for the factory, but whether they should mean much to us customers, well...?
In that context, I was only raising the question of whether it's really worth the extra - what is it, 12 grand or something? - for the difference between the two cars. Especially since, as I said, we may be well bored by Blood Orange and Viper Green by this time next year.

The least that these guys could do for the extra money would be to offer more colour choices.
Have you ever seen the colour choices offered by the factory for the 2.7RS?

- Aubergine
- Bahia Rde
- Beige Grey
- Tangerine
- Leaf Green
- Ivory
- Lilac
- Raspberry
- Glacier Blue
- Glacier White
- Gulf Blue
- Gulf Orange
- Light Yellow
- Light Green
- Light Ivory
- India Red
- Irish Green
- Chartreuse
- Olive
- Black
- Dalmatian Blue
- Sepia Brown
- Signal Yellow
- Signal Orange
- Viper Green
- plus the option of a "special colour"

It's really gratifying that Porsche, the world's most profitable carmaker, are today being so flexible as to offer us, its loyal customers, 85% fewer colours than they did thirty years ago.

Thanks, boys!

[glenn mcmenamin]

I have also heard that the gap in performance terms will be greater this time between GT3 and RS than the 996 versions...

again, none of this is in stone, and only mainly rumblings from Paris etc...


I am certainly not saying that the RS is good value compared to the GT3, but as you know, if
Porsche make 'em, we'll buy 'em !!!!

G.

BTW, that's a very impressive list of colours, but i don't suppose bad colours effected risiduals as much in
those days.......

G.

Edited by glenn mcmenamin on Sunday 8th October 23:04

[flemke]

glenn mcmenamin said:

I have also heard that the gap in performance terms will be greater this time between GT3 and RS than the 996 versions...

again, none of this is in stone, and only mainly rumblings from Paris etc...


I am certainly not saying that the RS is good value compared to the GT3, but as you know, if
Porsche make 'em, we'll buy 'em !!!!

G.

BTW, that's a very impressive list of colours, but i don't suppose bad colours effected risiduals as much in
those days.......

One of those colours was not spec'ed for a single car; a couple of others ended up on only two or four.

As for the stories out of Paris, well, I suppose that that is possible. Most anything is possible.

When we consider that the 96RS was not so much intended as a money-spinner, and certainly not as a gift for dedicated Porschephiles, but as an updated homolgation base for the 996GT3RSR because Motorsport decided that they needed different suspension pickup points for the '04 race car, we can say, "Good, that change could translate into a better road/trackday car". (Even that may be dubious in that the pickup points are optimised for the ride height of the RSR, which of course is a lot lower than the ride height of any road-going car, but we'll ignore that additional reason to be sceptical of Porsche.)
When they're producing the normal GT3 and the RS at the same time, as they are now, however, it does make me wonder whether they're really going to make the normal car "less good" by the use of sub-optimal pickup points or suchlike.

Porsche are famous for using the same bits across much if not all of their (car) product line. Maybe they really have put a bunch of special stuff into the RS that is worth the extra money. I'd just like someone with some actual knowledge (which unfortunately excludes most of the usual sources of opinion such as the motoring media and Porsche functionaries in the UK or at OPCs) to tell us all what exactly we will get for the extra money, apart from the go-faster orange livery.

Isn't the vagueness of their product description somewhat disquieting?

Perhpas there will be a slew of press releases coming from Paris this week and we (I) will see the light. For the time being, however, I shall remain a bit sceptical. Especially when the people I know who are plugged in tell me that there's bugger-all real difference.

[flemke]

Glenn,

Btw, just for the heck of it...

Sport Auto times:

------------Hockenheim--------'ring
GT3 MkI-----1.14.9-------------8.03
GT3 MkII----1.13.2-------------7.54
GT3RS-------1.11.8-------------7.47
97GT3-------1.11.7-------------7.48
F. 430/F1---1.12.7-------------7.55

There were differences in tyres and differences in the testing conditions, so none of the above is definitive.
What is interesting is that - if we go by the above - the 97RS would supposedly do 7.40 at the 'ring and 110.3 at Hockenheim.
The CGT did 7.32 at the 'ring and 108.6 at Hock. (on its fairly normal, standard MPSs).
How plausible is it that the 97RS will be as quick as the Paris emanations would lead one to believe?

(I must admit that the tyres make a huge difference. I drove the CGT on slicks at Hock. a couple of weeks ago and it was simply ballistic. How can we make these tyres road legal? )

I included above the F430 because, as much as I dislike Ferrari, this is an exceptionally good car. I am sceptical that the 97RS is that much faster than the 430, if it's faster at all.

Cheers.

Edited by flemke on Sunday 8th October 23:41

[glenn mcmenamin]

flemke said:

glenn mcmenamin said:

I have also heard that the gap in performance terms will be greater this time between GT3 and RS than the 996 versions...

again, none of this is in stone, and only mainly rumblings from Paris etc...


I am certainly not saying that the RS is good value compared to the GT3, but as you know, if
Porsche make 'em, we'll buy 'em !!!!

G.

BTW, that's a very impressive list of colours, but i don't suppose bad colours effected risiduals as much in
those days.......

One of those colours was not spec'ed for a single car; a couple of others ended up on only two or four.

As for the stories out of Paris, well, I suppose that that is possible. Most anything is possible.

When we consider that the 96RS was not so much intended as a money-spinner, and certainly not as a gift for dedicated Porschephiles, but as an updated homolgation base for the 996GT3RSR because Motorsport decided that they needed different suspension pickup points for the '04 race car, we can say, "Good, that change could translate into a better road/trackday car". (Even that may be dubious in that the pickup points are optimised for the ride height of the RSR, which of course is a lot lower than the ride height of any road-going car, but we'll ignore that additional reason to be sceptical of Porsche.)
When they're producing the normal GT3 and the RS at the same time, as they are now, however, it does make me wonder whether they're really going to make the normal car "less good" by the use of sub-optimal pickup points or suchlike.

Porsche are famous for using the same bits across much if not all of their (car) product line. Maybe they really have put a bunch of special stuff into the RS that is worth the extra money. I'd just like someone with some actual knowledge (which unfortunately excludes most of the usual sources of opinion such as the motoring media and Porsche functionaries in the UK or at OPCs) to tell us all what exactly we will get for the extra money, apart from the go-faster orange livery.

Isn't the vagueness of their product description somewhat disquieting?

Perhpas there will be a slew of press releases coming from Paris this week and we (I) will see the light. For the time being, however, I shall remain a bit sceptical. Especially when the people I know who are plugged in tell me that there's bugger-all real difference.

I hear what you are saying, i'm off to gay Pareeee, tomorrow to see it for myself, so if i can get hold of an english speaking
Porsche rep, i'll give him a grilling

G.

[polarexpress]

If only they had put in the 3.8 motor... wider wheel arches, minor retuned suspension, and the carbon trim aren't reason enough for me. Besides, I'm sure Manthey will be along in 6 months time with a superior 7GT3 that could outpace/outhandle an RS...

[flemke]

polarexpress said:

Besides, I'm sure Manthey will be along in 6 months time with a superior 7GT3 that could outpace/outhandle an RS...

You might not have to wait six months...

[polarexpress]

flemke said:

polarexpress said:

Besides, I'm sure Manthey will be along in 6 months time with a superior 7GT3 that could outpace/outhandle an RS...

You might not have to wait six months...

Yep, saw that white 7GT3 that they just got in... their stripped black 7TT has been making good progress (on the left)... mine's on the right getting setup with her new suspension and K400... I can't stop grinning!