Thinking about PCCB ??
Discussion
I know this has been a much talked about subject, and I'm not trying to start a full blown debate again but :
I Spoke to a driver involved in the Porsche Driving Experiences today, not a Porsche employee but an outside 'consultant'.
His personnal view on the PCCB system based on much experience, is that it's a very worthwhile option, albeit pretty expensive, for the keen driver.
He was fairly adamant that the difference in unsprung weight over the steel brakes WOULD be noticeable by a 'normal' driver on a back to back comparison.
He feels many of the problems of the early systems were due to overheating, partly because drivers thought the main benefit of PCCB was better/later braking.
He strongly recommended that you do not change your braking habits with PCCB, they are not designed to dramatically reduce braking distances - if at all.
The main benefit as he says is in the weight saving, and also better/more consistant pedal feel.
Also there is some brake dust, but not much in comparison to steels.
Anyway he reckons once the new GT3's are set up for the 'Driving Experiences' there should be a chance to compare the 2 systems on the day.
I'm reliably informed he has no vested interested in selling PCCB's, he certainly didn't sound like a salesman when I spoke to him.
Hopefully useful info for some, useless for others, and very debatable by the rest !!
Cheers
I Spoke to a driver involved in the Porsche Driving Experiences today, not a Porsche employee but an outside 'consultant'.
His personnal view on the PCCB system based on much experience, is that it's a very worthwhile option, albeit pretty expensive, for the keen driver.
He was fairly adamant that the difference in unsprung weight over the steel brakes WOULD be noticeable by a 'normal' driver on a back to back comparison.
He feels many of the problems of the early systems were due to overheating, partly because drivers thought the main benefit of PCCB was better/later braking.
He strongly recommended that you do not change your braking habits with PCCB, they are not designed to dramatically reduce braking distances - if at all.
The main benefit as he says is in the weight saving, and also better/more consistant pedal feel.
Also there is some brake dust, but not much in comparison to steels.
Anyway he reckons once the new GT3's are set up for the 'Driving Experiences' there should be a chance to compare the 2 systems on the day.
I'm reliably informed he has no vested interested in selling PCCB's, he certainly didn't sound like a salesman when I spoke to him.
Hopefully useful info for some, useless for others, and very debatable by the rest !!
Cheers
anglebox10 said:
The main benefit as he says is in the weight saving, and also better/more consistant pedal feel.
No experience of getting PCCBs really cooking , but I'm led to believe the more consistent pedal feel has been part of the early PCCB problem.
As has been said on here before, steel brakes will tend to fade and the pedal get "longer" when under real duress.
From what I've read, the PCCB do not give this "early warning" under duress and thus can be overheated without the driver being aware.
This is when the damage can occur.
Can anyone confirm this ?
The subject has been covered in the past, so you can do a search.
However, much of the comment is polarised, and a lot of it based on the experience of early generation set ups.
The latest (Gen 3?) apparently incorporate a number of differences - more durable construction, additional cooling, modified f/r bias, further reduced weight and better protection.
The key benefits are said to be, better retardation, consistent performance without fade, no brake dust, no corrosion, long service life and, most importantly, significant unsprung weight saving, which improves handling and ride.
The big fear is the cost. Not so much the initial cost (£5800), which is quite reasonable for the benefits, but the replacement cost of c.£14k for a complete new set, should they be needed. However, it is possible to revert to the steel brakes for around £2500.
I did my own research and got a lot of sound independent advice, plus the reassurances I needed from within Porsche, and they are fitted to my new GT3. I think they are utterly fantastic, although, in fairness, I haven't driven a 997GT3 on steels.
Interestingly, several people including Chris Harris, told me that PCCBs probably made more sense for road use, and occasional track excursions, than for regular, hard circuit use where their durability was still not conclusive..
At the end of the day you pays your money and makes your choice.
However, much of the comment is polarised, and a lot of it based on the experience of early generation set ups.
The latest (Gen 3?) apparently incorporate a number of differences - more durable construction, additional cooling, modified f/r bias, further reduced weight and better protection.
The key benefits are said to be, better retardation, consistent performance without fade, no brake dust, no corrosion, long service life and, most importantly, significant unsprung weight saving, which improves handling and ride.
The big fear is the cost. Not so much the initial cost (£5800), which is quite reasonable for the benefits, but the replacement cost of c.£14k for a complete new set, should they be needed. However, it is possible to revert to the steel brakes for around £2500.
I did my own research and got a lot of sound independent advice, plus the reassurances I needed from within Porsche, and they are fitted to my new GT3. I think they are utterly fantastic, although, in fairness, I haven't driven a 997GT3 on steels.
Interestingly, several people including Chris Harris, told me that PCCBs probably made more sense for road use, and occasional track excursions, than for regular, hard circuit use where their durability was still not conclusive..
At the end of the day you pays your money and makes your choice.
Vesuvius 996 said:
I am currently seriously considering a GT3RS - but with steels only.
PCCB scares me.
Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Thursday 23 November 20:35
Each to their own, it is a personal choice.
However I have now decided to put a bit of faith in Porsche and the new improved version, and will be going for them.
Only time will tell if this was the right choice, but I am quietly confident - I think !!
I really really like the concept of PCCBs and really hope they've got them working on the newer cars.
However, since I have binned 3 pairs of Gen 1 PCCBs (2 x front and 1x rear) on my car and have had many friends also bin them on GT2, GT3 and TTS, I'll be waiting for solid proof of longevity for track-use before re-considering.
That said for a road-car I'd happily plump for PCCBs.
GuyR said:
I really really like the concept of PCCBs and really hope they've got them working on the newer cars.
However, since I have binned 3 pairs of Gen 1 PCCBs (2 x front and 1x rear) on my car and have had many friends also bin them on GT2, GT3 and TTS, I'll be waiting for solid proof of longevity for track-use before re-considering.
That said for a road-car I'd happily plump for PCCBs.
Ding!
As to normal drivers feeling the difference, I'm a normal driver, I've had both on my car and the only time I felt the difference was when I carried them upstairs. Maybe I'm unusually talentless. Nothing wrong with them though if you can reconcile the cost - if not fit steels when they die /shrug.
GuyR said:
I really really like the concept of PCCBs and really hope they've got them working on the newer cars.
However, since I have binned 3 pairs of Gen 1 PCCBs (2 x front and 1x rear) on my car and have had many friends also bin them on GT2, GT3 and TTS, I'll be waiting for solid proof of longevity for track-use before re-considering.
That said for a road-car I'd happily plump for PCCBs.
Ding!
As to normal drivers feeling the difference, I'm a normal driver, I've had both on my car and the only time I felt the difference was when I carried them upstairs. Maybe I'm unusually talentless. Nothing wrong with them though if you can reconcile the cost - if not fit steels when they die /shrug. Regardless of whether they last 5k or 25k, when they go replacements cost too much for most people.
I've specc'd them on my forthcoming RS.
For some weird reason, i have this belief that Porsche will not be making the same F ups twice, and so this
gen 3 version will be better..
I don't expect them to last forever, but some of my reasoning, is that the steel ones will no doubt crack
after a few hard days on track, so that'll be £2k+ straight on Alcons/Brembo replacement....which in my
mind is £2k better spent on PCCB's...
I hope i am right, but i am aware that it's a big gamble....
G.
For some weird reason, i have this belief that Porsche will not be making the same F ups twice, and so this
gen 3 version will be better..
I don't expect them to last forever, but some of my reasoning, is that the steel ones will no doubt crack
after a few hard days on track, so that'll be £2k+ straight on Alcons/Brembo replacement....which in my
mind is £2k better spent on PCCB's...
I hope i am right, but i am aware that it's a big gamble....
G.
Edited by glenn mcmenamin on Thursday 23 November 23:46
I think the fact that 997 Supercup cars run on PCCB's but all the domestic cup championships run on steel discs says a lot.
According to one team insider I have spoken to, the Supercup cars are a few tenths of a second quicker but the running costs are significantly higher. I assumed from this that the wear rates compared with something like floating
Brembo's are broadly similar.
I notice also that the 997 RSR also runs on steel disc's. I would be interested to know if this is a performance decision or if the FIA GT regs demand it ?
According to one team insider I have spoken to, the Supercup cars are a few tenths of a second quicker but the running costs are significantly higher. I assumed from this that the wear rates compared with something like floating
Brembo's are broadly similar.
I notice also that the 997 RSR also runs on steel disc's. I would be interested to know if this is a performance decision or if the FIA GT regs demand it ?
Geneve said:
The big fear is the cost. Not so much the initial cost (£5800), which is quite reasonable for the benefits, but the replacement cost of c.£14k for a complete new set, should they be needed.
forgive me, i know nothing about this, but that statment is shocking. Do you mean that PCCB is a 5.8K option when ordering but 14K if/when renewal is necessary? That is scandalous
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