£19k 964 vs £20k 993
Discussion
So here is a dilemma (or maybe not). Faced with the choice, what would you rather go for and why:
1) 1992 964 c4 with 77k on the clock with OPC and specialist history. gemballa / bilstein suspension upgrade.
2) 1994 993 c2 with 96k on the clock with OPC and specialist history. completely standard
I'm thinking the second option on the basis of lower running costs but i like the first option owing to lower mileage, better residual value.... thoughts?
1) 1992 964 c4 with 77k on the clock with OPC and specialist history. gemballa / bilstein suspension upgrade.
2) 1994 993 c2 with 96k on the clock with OPC and specialist history. completely standard
I'm thinking the second option on the basis of lower running costs but i like the first option owing to lower mileage, better residual value.... thoughts?
Ravi944 said:
Interesting point re shocks. Is this a commonly recognised issue with a 993 of around 13 years age and 100k on the clock. Any ideas on the cost?
What do you think I might lose in depreciation on both of those cars?
Cheers
What do you think I might lose in depreciation on both of those cars?
Cheers
Shocks on most 993s could do with a change at around 40k miles based on my six years of ownership. Known as a common issue, although probably not recognised as one by opcs.
They transformed my old car. I had factory M030 (sports suspension). I replaced shocks, went for Bilstein HDs from Gert (www.carnewal.com).
The difference? - I went from an okay but not mega taut car to one that felt like its just been driven from the showroom.
Find a good one and you'll love the 993
Cheers
Ajit.
With 911s of this vintage (and probably any) the purchase price is only half the story. The amount of with the car will need over the next couple of years needs to be factored in. The 993 looks cheap, but it it needs new shocks, and one of two other significnat items you can very quickly find a 4-5k bill lurking.
Get them both looked at to get an estimate of work soon needed. That might help make he decision more staightforward.
Get them both looked at to get an estimate of work soon needed. That might help make he decision more staightforward.
on the basis that the 964 is way overpriced then I would agree on the 993. On the other hand go find a 964 for a resonable price, £13-15 k and Id go for the 964 every day. Its refined enough and raw enough all rolled into one, good build quality and gorgeous to look at compared with the much softer looking 993.
Well as people know I am a big advocate of the 964, mainly due to it offering a lot of the 993's attraction at a lot less money, but that is a ridiculously highly priced example, I would buy the 993 every time, for a start the gemballa bits would tend to put me off as opposed to turn me on but thats an aside from the fact that the 993 is reasonably priced, almost cheap in fact, where as the 964 is overpriced IMO.
993 would be the way to go in my opinion for looks, the 2WD and the retained value in years to come. Hearsay having not driven one, but I understand that the 4WD version of the 964 was even more understeery than the equivalent 993.
Another job that might be imminent or already done depending on how either of these cars has been driven is the clutch - worth looking at the bills of past work. Which ever one you choose, an independent inspection would be a wise move and will probably give you a bit of bargaining power.
Another job that might be imminent or already done depending on how either of these cars has been driven is the clutch - worth looking at the bills of past work. Which ever one you choose, an independent inspection would be a wise move and will probably give you a bit of bargaining power.
Guys have had some responses to the following questions. Any thoughts appreciated before i make effort to view.
QUESTIONS
>
> - how many registered keepers
> - any accidents /repairs
> - completeness of service history - ie any 'missing' years
> - the completeness of paperwork for service invoices / repairs /
> replacements
> - completeness of mot certificates
> - completeness of original documentation including the wallet, owners
> manual, etc
> - works anticipated over next 12 months
> - major works undertaken - you already mentioned clutch and cam covers but
> anything else?
> - spare keys
> - brand of alarm / immob
> - bodywork condition
RESPONSES
It's had 7 previous keepers and I have a complete list of there names and addresses
The service Book is stamped from new and has no missing entries (see Photo)
There is quite a lot of bills and invoices but I have no idea if it's absolutly everything
There are 5 MOT's and some tax disks
The original documentation supplied with the car is still there the original wallet, Servise Book, Owners Manual, and Service Guide
The Only thing Needed is the Next Service however this is the Minor not Major as the last one was the Major.
Last Service also did the rear Brake pads and I also replaced the Battry and had the A/C Charged (It does work which is unusual for a 993)
From Service history
The duel mass flywheel was replaced (Common Problem)
Rear Spoiler Flex wall replaced (Common Problem)
Brakes and droplinks have been done a couple of times (Normal)
Normal Belt Replacements
Clutch has been done before (Normal at approx 50,000)
It has no signes of any Accidents and the inner and outer wings are very straight
It has had at some time some of the valence stone chips touched up.
There are two sets of keys it has the original space saver and compressor
it has a CEL (Thacham) alarm/Imobiliser and it also has a tracker fitted but currently not enabled
Bodywork condition is Very good compared to some that I have looked at and as stated above the panels are all straight.
The 993's dont suffer like earlier 911's with door check straps (Replaced these acouple of time on my other 911's) as the design is different so no problem there
Shocks and struts are fine and the car still handles and drives very well
The advert on the PCGB site was placed some time ago when I first considered selling it, the current price reflects the Current Market, If it doesent sell then I will wait till the start of the Summer and the Price will be 2K more
It's a good straight 993 that is very reliable if I was being picky the only minor cosmetic is that the steering wheel is starting to loose it's Conolising (Shine & Polish), which is easy to either get it re done or a new 993 wheel on Ebay is about £80
Hope this ansers your questions
QUESTIONS
>
> - how many registered keepers
> - any accidents /repairs
> - completeness of service history - ie any 'missing' years
> - the completeness of paperwork for service invoices / repairs /
> replacements
> - completeness of mot certificates
> - completeness of original documentation including the wallet, owners
> manual, etc
> - works anticipated over next 12 months
> - major works undertaken - you already mentioned clutch and cam covers but
> anything else?
> - spare keys
> - brand of alarm / immob
> - bodywork condition
RESPONSES
It's had 7 previous keepers and I have a complete list of there names and addresses
The service Book is stamped from new and has no missing entries (see Photo)
There is quite a lot of bills and invoices but I have no idea if it's absolutly everything
There are 5 MOT's and some tax disks
The original documentation supplied with the car is still there the original wallet, Servise Book, Owners Manual, and Service Guide
The Only thing Needed is the Next Service however this is the Minor not Major as the last one was the Major.
Last Service also did the rear Brake pads and I also replaced the Battry and had the A/C Charged (It does work which is unusual for a 993)
From Service history
The duel mass flywheel was replaced (Common Problem)
Rear Spoiler Flex wall replaced (Common Problem)
Brakes and droplinks have been done a couple of times (Normal)
Normal Belt Replacements
Clutch has been done before (Normal at approx 50,000)
It has no signes of any Accidents and the inner and outer wings are very straight
It has had at some time some of the valence stone chips touched up.
There are two sets of keys it has the original space saver and compressor
it has a CEL (Thacham) alarm/Imobiliser and it also has a tracker fitted but currently not enabled
Bodywork condition is Very good compared to some that I have looked at and as stated above the panels are all straight.
The 993's dont suffer like earlier 911's with door check straps (Replaced these acouple of time on my other 911's) as the design is different so no problem there
Shocks and struts are fine and the car still handles and drives very well
The advert on the PCGB site was placed some time ago when I first considered selling it, the current price reflects the Current Market, If it doesent sell then I will wait till the start of the Summer and the Price will be 2K more
It's a good straight 993 that is very reliable if I was being picky the only minor cosmetic is that the steering wheel is starting to loose it's Conolising (Shine & Polish), which is easy to either get it re done or a new 993 wheel on Ebay is about £80
Hope this ansers your questions
Ravi944 said:
Guys have had some responses to the following questions. Any thoughts appreciated before i make effort to view.
"The 993's dont suffer like earlier 911's with door check straps (Replaced these acouple of time on my other 911's) as the design is different so no problem there"
"The 993's dont suffer like earlier 911's with door check straps (Replaced these acouple of time on my other 911's) as the design is different so no problem there"
This is bollox - 993s suffer particularly from door check strap problems. As (IIRC) the number of welds securing the check strap to the inside of the A pillar was reduced to just one.
Otherwise sounds fine though.
Sounds straight enough. No brainer to get a proper PPI done tho by someone who knows 911s inside out. You're in london, pm me if you want a recomendation for someone to use.
You should also find out if the car has had the wiring loom recall done.
If not, no worries cos Porsche replace it free as a recall. Its an early 993 so probably needs it.
Cheers
Ajit.
You should also find out if the car has had the wiring loom recall done.
If not, no worries cos Porsche replace it free as a recall. Its an early 993 so probably needs it.
Cheers
Ajit.
As tetrus said all bollox the check strap thing is one of the major issues with 993's i.e. the only used one weld as opposed to two on the 964 and two on earlier 911's dosent really sound like the the guy selling this 993 knows much about 993's imho.
So get a very good inspection and if its sound go for it
Phib
p.s. to do the check strap properly is 1.5k ish you can bodge it for much less though !!!
So get a very good inspection and if its sound go for it
Phib
p.s. to do the check strap properly is 1.5k ish you can bodge it for much less though !!!
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