Discussion
Having grown up always wanting a 911 I know find myself in the position to buy an older example. Having considered water cooled I now realise that I really want a 911.
I have seen a couple of late 70's SCs, 180 and 188bhp versions, advertised by reputable dealers for around the £8k mark. I thought this looked cheap but there seems to be a depressing of prices caused by early Boxters going for a few £k more and 964s as low as £12k.
Anyway, these SC are unfashionable targas which I seem to love. Would an early SC be a good buy for a pride and joy to live in the garage only to come out a suitable weekends or should I spend more for a 3.2? I'm not mechanically minded but am keen to learn and have done basics on other makes (brake hoses, starters, waterpumps etc).
Thoughts please?
Captain
I have seen a couple of late 70's SCs, 180 and 188bhp versions, advertised by reputable dealers for around the £8k mark. I thought this looked cheap but there seems to be a depressing of prices caused by early Boxters going for a few £k more and 964s as low as £12k.
Anyway, these SC are unfashionable targas which I seem to love. Would an early SC be a good buy for a pride and joy to live in the garage only to come out a suitable weekends or should I spend more for a 3.2? I'm not mechanically minded but am keen to learn and have done basics on other makes (brake hoses, starters, waterpumps etc).
Thoughts please?
Captain
180, 204 SC or 231bhp 3.2 carrera. The 3.2 never made 231bhp bog standard. The early 3.2's were not much different to the SC's interior wise with the small side air vents. Later 3.2's were better in that department. 87 on G50 gearbox, hydraulic clutch G50 gearbox nicer to use and stronger but some will argue the gearbox ratios were not as good. In truth stay clear of targa's unless you can be sure that the roof does not leak. If properly adjusted and fettled it does not. Buy the best that you can afford and it will cost you peanuts to run. Buy a dog and it will always we a dog. My first Porsche a 3.2 Carrera was the cheapest car to run that I have ever owned.
Both fantastic.
SC does appear more revvy than a 3.2, but no comparison mid range. Personally i would opt for the 3.2 if possible with the G50 GBox, better again. I had a 78 SC a few years ago, and i always found it difficult to make rapid progress with the 915 box. However the SC was the cheapest to run and i got my money back so you make your choices.
SC does appear more revvy than a 3.2, but no comparison mid range. Personally i would opt for the 3.2 if possible with the G50 GBox, better again. I had a 78 SC a few years ago, and i always found it difficult to make rapid progress with the 915 box. However the SC was the cheapest to run and i got my money back so you make your choices.
Garage mechanics,forget it.
I looked for 2 years before I bought mine.
There's plenty of crap sub 10K that have been kept going just as you intend to.
People believing they can keep them going for £450 a year ?
Henry F [911virgin] will tell you.
Look at about £1k-2k pa
Parts are an arm and a leg.
Pre 86, 915 box, rebuild, and if it hasn't been done, it'll have to be, is about £3,5K with a clutch.
Exhaust with heat exchangers, parts about £850
Everythings money.
Get a few books first, and drive a few.
Unless your getting 11 or 12 out, truly forget it.
One massive hole into which its possible to pour your entire wages, and all your available credit into.
Take a look at Burriana's if he's still got it.
I looked for 2 years before I bought mine.
There's plenty of crap sub 10K that have been kept going just as you intend to.
People believing they can keep them going for £450 a year ?
Henry F [911virgin] will tell you.
Look at about £1k-2k pa
Parts are an arm and a leg.
Pre 86, 915 box, rebuild, and if it hasn't been done, it'll have to be, is about £3,5K with a clutch.
Exhaust with heat exchangers, parts about £850
Everythings money.
Get a few books first, and drive a few.
Unless your getting 11 or 12 out, truly forget it.
One massive hole into which its possible to pour your entire wages, and all your available credit into.
Take a look at Burriana's if he's still got it.
I have a 3.2, and I would never change it for an SC, bit I think I would agree with rich. Although the earlier cars can be a little more problematic (rust and mechanical problems), they're all going to get that way in the end (comparing say an 84 or earlier with an 89).
Although the 3.2 is a bit more powerful than the mechanical fuel injection jobs, it's only about 10BHP IIRC, and the earlier cars are certainly more revvy.
The big thing is the gearbox. Some people prefer the 915 gearbox (maybe it's ok if well maintained), but I think it's generally accepted that the G50 box is more solid, reliable and will take more abuse. The 3.2 carrera demarks the boundary between the two gearboxes.
Although the 3.2 is a bit more powerful than the mechanical fuel injection jobs, it's only about 10BHP IIRC, and the earlier cars are certainly more revvy.
The big thing is the gearbox. Some people prefer the 915 gearbox (maybe it's ok if well maintained), but I think it's generally accepted that the G50 box is more solid, reliable and will take more abuse. The 3.2 carrera demarks the boundary between the two gearboxes.
As the cars get ever older, I'm not entirely sure that the premium for 3.2 over SC is worth it - certainly not for the non G50 models. A 204bhp SC with full SSI exhaust won't be much off a bog-standard 3.2 from a power perspective.
Personally I wouldn't be afraid of an SC as if well maintained will be very nearly as good as a 3.2. I'd suggest driving both to get a feel for the difference. For example, the improved ventilation in the 3.2 may be important if you intend to use daily. Notably though, there is no doubt that a 3.2 will be easier to sell.
Either way the classic advice is to choose on condition - although that is easier to say than do as its relatively easy to dress up a dog, so I'd certainly recommend an independent inspection.
My SC has served me well over the last few years - great fun and generally reliable, but not especially cheap to run (top and bottom end engine re-build, SSI exhaust, clutch, hydraulic tensioners, short-shift kit, turbo tie-rods, brake disks and lines etc). I'd guess that long term the 1-2k per year is pretty accurate - I'd guess for both SC and 3.2.
Personally I wouldn't be afraid of an SC as if well maintained will be very nearly as good as a 3.2. I'd suggest driving both to get a feel for the difference. For example, the improved ventilation in the 3.2 may be important if you intend to use daily. Notably though, there is no doubt that a 3.2 will be easier to sell.
Either way the classic advice is to choose on condition - although that is easier to say than do as its relatively easy to dress up a dog, so I'd certainly recommend an independent inspection.
My SC has served me well over the last few years - great fun and generally reliable, but not especially cheap to run (top and bottom end engine re-build, SSI exhaust, clutch, hydraulic tensioners, short-shift kit, turbo tie-rods, brake disks and lines etc). I'd guess that long term the 1-2k per year is pretty accurate - I'd guess for both SC and 3.2.
stuttgartmetal said:
Pre 86, 915 box, rebuild, and if it hasn't been done, it'll have to be, is about £3,5K with a clutch.
A full gearbox re-build on my 911 SC (204hp) race car was only about £1000 earlier this year. It did also need a replacement (non-standard) clutch and I think this was about £100 - £150.
The advantage of the 915 box on a 3.2 is that they lose less power - you won't see (m)any G50 boxed cars on the grid.
I probably prefer G50 boxes on road cars, but it seemed worthwhile covering all angles.
Another point - you can easily "chip" a 3.2 to give over 250 very useful & useable bhp for only £500 or so - I've not heard anything but good news about any car that's been done.
If you are tall it's worth remembering that the later 3.2's (post 86) have a much better cabin, the seat bases are 50mm lower IIRC which helps headroom a lot. My first 911 was a 1987 LHD 3.2 - non sport model (ie no rear wing or fromt spoiler - very nice......I now run a very good 964 C2 as my daily driver, but I would have no hesitation in recommending that for a weekend toy you should buy the best car you can find at your price point, and don't worry too much which model you pick. They can all put a smile on your face, and a dent in your bank account :0)
The 86 3.2 has:-
sports [widebody] seats standard
better ventilation and steering wheel
bilsteins
increased anti roll bar
bigger alternator
revised Bosch K Jetronic Injection with cold start injector inside the airbox
stainless steel fuel lines
915 box with side oil cooler
over the SC
A rebuilt 915 is a great box
The parts bill for my 915 was over a grand from Zuffenhausen.
One of the bearings was £142
One of the castellated nuts was £40
The rebuild itself, at Paragon, was only booked for 10 hours, thats engine on the bench.
With a Sachs clutch,new flywhheel [they can't be skimmed] RMS, boots and nut and bolt rebuild it cost £3667
They had the box split right down to its component peices, every part on the bench for inspection. Very impressive. I recommend them thoroughly.
A nut and bolt gearbox rebuild is not something I would ever wish to do myself.
I bought my car with intention of driving it, not fixing it, or “ doing it up ”
They are an arm and a leg to do that to, so buy a good one. They are perfect for weekends.
Any clutch replacement in a 911 costs minimum £850
With the box out you might as well do the RMS and all driveshaft boots.
You're brave doing this rebuild or clutch yourself, and would need full workshop facilities. Its not something Id consider, and Ive built cars from scratch.
The G50's great, but heavier, and not Porsche.
The Carrera 3.2 engine is streets ahead valve drive wise, without the slipper problems of the earlier engine, with a better torque curve.
Id put my 3.2 up against any SC any time, and would be interested in the outcome.
[There's a trackday challenge if you're interested any time]
Get this, very good read.
Buy Porsche 911 buyers guide by Randy Leffingwell
ISBN 0-7603-0947--7
sports [widebody] seats standard
better ventilation and steering wheel
bilsteins
increased anti roll bar
bigger alternator
revised Bosch K Jetronic Injection with cold start injector inside the airbox
stainless steel fuel lines
915 box with side oil cooler
over the SC
A rebuilt 915 is a great box
The parts bill for my 915 was over a grand from Zuffenhausen.
One of the bearings was £142
One of the castellated nuts was £40
The rebuild itself, at Paragon, was only booked for 10 hours, thats engine on the bench.
With a Sachs clutch,new flywhheel [they can't be skimmed] RMS, boots and nut and bolt rebuild it cost £3667
They had the box split right down to its component peices, every part on the bench for inspection. Very impressive. I recommend them thoroughly.
A nut and bolt gearbox rebuild is not something I would ever wish to do myself.
I bought my car with intention of driving it, not fixing it, or “ doing it up ”
They are an arm and a leg to do that to, so buy a good one. They are perfect for weekends.
Any clutch replacement in a 911 costs minimum £850
With the box out you might as well do the RMS and all driveshaft boots.
You're brave doing this rebuild or clutch yourself, and would need full workshop facilities. Its not something Id consider, and Ive built cars from scratch.
The G50's great, but heavier, and not Porsche.
The Carrera 3.2 engine is streets ahead valve drive wise, without the slipper problems of the earlier engine, with a better torque curve.
Id put my 3.2 up against any SC any time, and would be interested in the outcome.
[There's a trackday challenge if you're interested any time]
Get this, very good read.
Buy Porsche 911 buyers guide by Randy Leffingwell
ISBN 0-7603-0947--7
Get the best car you can afford. My advice would be a G50 3.2 (in LHD if that's what it takes to suit your budget) but a good SC will still be fun to drive.
Can I suggest you visit www.impactbumpers.com - They specialise in these cars & will offer good advice.
Can I suggest you visit www.impactbumpers.com - They specialise in these cars & will offer good advice.
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