Discussion
hmmm, can of worms time?
naa.
Ironically, the 996 facelift and 997 share the same engine - the 3.6 lump.
Its not better or worse than the 3.4 in the early facelifts - what you've heard of is one or two failures that have caused mass hysteria that wouldn't even cause a blimp had it been a BMW or Ferrari.
naa.
Ironically, the 996 facelift and 997 share the same engine - the 3.6 lump.
Its not better or worse than the 3.4 in the early facelifts - what you've heard of is one or two failures that have caused mass hysteria that wouldn't even cause a blimp had it been a BMW or Ferrari.
Fidgits said:
hmmm, can of worms time?
naa.
Ironically, the 996 facelift and 997 share the same engine - the 3.6 lump.
Its not better or worse than the 3.4 in the early facelifts - what you've heard of is one or two failures that have caused mass hysteria that wouldn't even cause a blimp had it been a BMW or Ferrari.
naa.
Ironically, the 996 facelift and 997 share the same engine - the 3.6 lump.
Its not better or worse than the 3.4 in the early facelifts - what you've heard of is one or two failures that have caused mass hysteria that wouldn't even cause a blimp had it been a BMW or Ferrari.
What sort of mileage would I go for with say 50K to spend?.
johna8tdi said:
Fidgits said:
hmmm, can of worms time?
naa.
Ironically, the 996 facelift and 997 share the same engine - the 3.6 lump.
Its not better or worse than the 3.4 in the early facelifts - what you've heard of is one or two failures that have caused mass hysteria that wouldn't even cause a blimp had it been a BMW or Ferrari.
naa.
Ironically, the 996 facelift and 997 share the same engine - the 3.6 lump.
Its not better or worse than the 3.4 in the early facelifts - what you've heard of is one or two failures that have caused mass hysteria that wouldn't even cause a blimp had it been a BMW or Ferrari.
What sort of mileage would I go for with say 50K to spend?.
oh, you must be new around these parts.
Welcome.
Golden rule - buy on condition!
Incidently, £50k would get you into a 997, just - but do you really want to buy at the bottom end of the market.
besides, there is much more to consider.
Do you want a Carrera? 2wd or 4wd? Coupe or convertible? Turbo or GT3?
With a 996 all these are within your grasp, so it comes down to what your looking for.
Bull996 said:
Nice lump of cash that. That will get you into a 996 Turbo.
IMHO the 996 is a better drive than the 997 if you like to be involved-but the 997 is great if you like something very easy to drive fast.....Turbo though is a great car.
IMHO the 996 is a better drive than the 997 if you like to be involved-but the 997 is great if you like something very easy to drive fast.....Turbo though is a great car.
i guess it depends - i think 997S is certainly a cut above the 996 for driver enjoyment. IF you can get a 997 C2S for that money, this would be where i'd put the money. And the styling of the 997 is sooo much better IMO
Drive them both back to back at an OPC but make sure it's like for like. ie 996 C2 vs 997 C2.
4WD numbs the experience IMO. I've driven all variants of the 996 except the targa and I enjoyed the C2 and GT3 the best.
996 vs 997 - well as I said, drive them back to back and see if the extra money is worth it.
I prefer the feel of the 996 to the 997 but thats just me. I prefer the looks of the 997 to the 996 but the both look equally nice from the ar*e end so who cares?
4WD numbs the experience IMO. I've driven all variants of the 996 except the targa and I enjoyed the C2 and GT3 the best.
996 vs 997 - well as I said, drive them back to back and see if the extra money is worth it.
I prefer the feel of the 996 to the 997 but thats just me. I prefer the looks of the 997 to the 996 but the both look equally nice from the ar*e end so who cares?
I think it is important to understand that the 996 (and probably 997) engines are not so much fragile as manufactured in such a way that a small number fail where others continue to work just fine for huge mileages. It is more that SOME are fragile rather than that they are all fragile - due partly to modern design, materials and assembly techniques.
Some long term engineering problems also exist that suggest that expensive rebuilds will be needed earlier in the car's life than previous models - probably requiring parts that used to last almost for ever before - so changing long term expectations for the marque - a bit.
However if you want a high performance car it has to have light imternals and will inevitably be stressed more than a "slower" alternative so all performance sports cars have some element of higher maintenance costs. Furthermore only a small fraction of owners (particularly of new cars) drive them anywhere near their design limits - many never driving them beyond half throttle or 80mph (often depending upon where in the Country they live etc) - so the difference in wear rates, loads and stresses between the same model between different owners - is huge and some engines may never be stressed enough to have problems whereas others may do at quite low mileages.
Previously the cars were so well designed, manufactured and put together that Porsche got a reputation for high performance and exceptional long life - but were close to going out of business as a result. Now they are even better cars, better value for money, Porsche are doing very well - and the downside is that some fail a little earlier than they used to - and I see no other alternative if such cars are going to eventually age to an affordability level for your average sports motorist.
Without customers posting about their problems the independents would not find out where to direct their future investment (as we have) to look into the problems (despite them only affecting a small number of cars). As a result when failures occur there are now alternatives reaching the market to help the unfortunate owners.
Our last few 996, 3.4 and 3.6 repairs (for example) have involved failed crankshaft, cracked cylinders, snapped timing chain, broken intermediate shaft bearing, cracked cylinder head. It is important for the commonality of failures to be assessed by people like us to see if the problems are just rare one offs or indeed an expanding problem that needs attention. As a result of our investigations we have manufactured special parts and are rebuilding a special area in our factory to enable us to handle greater numbers of Boxster and 996 engine rebuilds than we were originally set up for - because we believe that a lot of engines will eventually be affected. We could be wrong and have wasted our investment - only time will tell - if we are right then we can help more owners if and when they need it - such is the nature of business investment.
I think therefore that it is good for these problems to be publicised and also fair to imform others considering buying these cars that such possibilites exist (if only to encourage them into a warranty that may help if the worst happens). So publishing the problems is useful but it can give an impression that the failures affect more cars than they actually do - but this is not in my opinion an example of mass hysteria just useful information that helps minimise the consequences for owners - in lots of useful ways.
Baz Hartech.
Some long term engineering problems also exist that suggest that expensive rebuilds will be needed earlier in the car's life than previous models - probably requiring parts that used to last almost for ever before - so changing long term expectations for the marque - a bit.
However if you want a high performance car it has to have light imternals and will inevitably be stressed more than a "slower" alternative so all performance sports cars have some element of higher maintenance costs. Furthermore only a small fraction of owners (particularly of new cars) drive them anywhere near their design limits - many never driving them beyond half throttle or 80mph (often depending upon where in the Country they live etc) - so the difference in wear rates, loads and stresses between the same model between different owners - is huge and some engines may never be stressed enough to have problems whereas others may do at quite low mileages.
Previously the cars were so well designed, manufactured and put together that Porsche got a reputation for high performance and exceptional long life - but were close to going out of business as a result. Now they are even better cars, better value for money, Porsche are doing very well - and the downside is that some fail a little earlier than they used to - and I see no other alternative if such cars are going to eventually age to an affordability level for your average sports motorist.
Without customers posting about their problems the independents would not find out where to direct their future investment (as we have) to look into the problems (despite them only affecting a small number of cars). As a result when failures occur there are now alternatives reaching the market to help the unfortunate owners.
Our last few 996, 3.4 and 3.6 repairs (for example) have involved failed crankshaft, cracked cylinders, snapped timing chain, broken intermediate shaft bearing, cracked cylinder head. It is important for the commonality of failures to be assessed by people like us to see if the problems are just rare one offs or indeed an expanding problem that needs attention. As a result of our investigations we have manufactured special parts and are rebuilding a special area in our factory to enable us to handle greater numbers of Boxster and 996 engine rebuilds than we were originally set up for - because we believe that a lot of engines will eventually be affected. We could be wrong and have wasted our investment - only time will tell - if we are right then we can help more owners if and when they need it - such is the nature of business investment.
I think therefore that it is good for these problems to be publicised and also fair to imform others considering buying these cars that such possibilites exist (if only to encourage them into a warranty that may help if the worst happens). So publishing the problems is useful but it can give an impression that the failures affect more cars than they actually do - but this is not in my opinion an example of mass hysteria just useful information that helps minimise the consequences for owners - in lots of useful ways.
Baz Hartech.
hartech said:
I think it is important to understand that the 996 (and probably 997) engines are not so much fragile as manufactured in such a way that a small number fail where others continue to work just fine for huge mileages. It is more that SOME are fragile rather than that they are all fragile - due partly to modern design, materials and assembly techniques.
Some long term engineering problems also exist that suggest that expensive rebuilds will be needed earlier in the car's life than previous models - probably requiring parts that used to last almost for ever before - so changing long term expectations for the marque - a bit.
However if you want a high performance car it has to have light imternals and will inevitably be stressed more than a "slower" alternative so all performance sports cars have some element of higher maintenance costs. Furthermore only a small fraction of owners (particularly of new cars) drive them anywhere near their design limits - many never driving them beyond half throttle or 80mph (often depending upon where in the Country they live etc) - so the difference in wear rates, loads and stresses between the same model between different owners - is huge and some engines may never be stressed enough to have problems whereas others may do at quite low mileages.
Previously the cars were so well designed, manufactured and put together that Porsche got a reputation for high performance and exceptional long life - but were close to going out of business as a result. Now they are even better cars, better value for money, Porsche are doing very well - and the downside is that some fail a little earlier than they used to - and I see no other alternative if such cars are going to eventually age to an affordability level for your average sports motorist.
Without customers posting about their problems the independents would not find out where to direct their future investment (as we have) to look into the problems (despite them only affecting a small number of cars). As a result when failures occur there are now alternatives reaching the market to help the unfortunate owners.
Our last few 996, 3.4 and 3.6 repairs (for example) have involved failed crankshaft, cracked cylinders, snapped timing chain, broken intermediate shaft bearing, cracked cylinder head. It is important for the commonality of failures to be assessed by people like us to see if the problems are just rare one offs or indeed an expanding problem that needs attention. As a result of our investigations we have manufactured special parts and are rebuilding a special area in our factory to enable us to handle greater numbers of Boxster and 996 engine rebuilds than we were originally set up for - because we believe that a lot of engines will eventually be affected. We could be wrong and have wasted our investment - only time will tell - if we are right then we can help more owners if and when they need it - such is the nature of business investment.
I think therefore that it is good for these problems to be publicised and also fair to imform others considering buying these cars that such possibilites exist (if only to encourage them into a warranty that may help if the worst happens). So publishing the problems is useful but it can give an impression that the failures affect more cars than they actually do - but this is not in my opinion an example of mass hysteria just useful information that helps minimise the consequences for owners - in lots of useful ways.
Baz Hartech.
Some long term engineering problems also exist that suggest that expensive rebuilds will be needed earlier in the car's life than previous models - probably requiring parts that used to last almost for ever before - so changing long term expectations for the marque - a bit.
However if you want a high performance car it has to have light imternals and will inevitably be stressed more than a "slower" alternative so all performance sports cars have some element of higher maintenance costs. Furthermore only a small fraction of owners (particularly of new cars) drive them anywhere near their design limits - many never driving them beyond half throttle or 80mph (often depending upon where in the Country they live etc) - so the difference in wear rates, loads and stresses between the same model between different owners - is huge and some engines may never be stressed enough to have problems whereas others may do at quite low mileages.
Previously the cars were so well designed, manufactured and put together that Porsche got a reputation for high performance and exceptional long life - but were close to going out of business as a result. Now they are even better cars, better value for money, Porsche are doing very well - and the downside is that some fail a little earlier than they used to - and I see no other alternative if such cars are going to eventually age to an affordability level for your average sports motorist.
Without customers posting about their problems the independents would not find out where to direct their future investment (as we have) to look into the problems (despite them only affecting a small number of cars). As a result when failures occur there are now alternatives reaching the market to help the unfortunate owners.
Our last few 996, 3.4 and 3.6 repairs (for example) have involved failed crankshaft, cracked cylinders, snapped timing chain, broken intermediate shaft bearing, cracked cylinder head. It is important for the commonality of failures to be assessed by people like us to see if the problems are just rare one offs or indeed an expanding problem that needs attention. As a result of our investigations we have manufactured special parts and are rebuilding a special area in our factory to enable us to handle greater numbers of Boxster and 996 engine rebuilds than we were originally set up for - because we believe that a lot of engines will eventually be affected. We could be wrong and have wasted our investment - only time will tell - if we are right then we can help more owners if and when they need it - such is the nature of business investment.
I think therefore that it is good for these problems to be publicised and also fair to imform others considering buying these cars that such possibilites exist (if only to encourage them into a warranty that may help if the worst happens). So publishing the problems is useful but it can give an impression that the failures affect more cars than they actually do - but this is not in my opinion an example of mass hysteria just useful information that helps minimise the consequences for owners - in lots of useful ways.
Baz Hartech.
Thank you Baz for your "honest" assement of the current climate with repect to the 996 engine I am interested in, this information I will use to find (hopefully) a lightly used car. I say that with prayers.
johna8tdi said:
Thanks guys for your imput,I supose main agent with the porsche warantee is safest, I will have a good look round when the weather improves though and drive some.
Good luck with your hunt. If you're interested, I'm looking to sell mine. One of the last 996s, special edition.
There's a similar one at Chester OPC....
http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/
Obviously I'd want less!
PM me for more details...
James
Fidgits said:
hmmm, can of worms time?
naa.
Ironically, the 996 facelift and 997 share the same engine - the 3.6 lump.
Its not better or worse than the 3.4 in the early facelifts - what you've heard of is one or two failures that have caused mass hysteria that wouldn't even cause a blimp had it been a BMW or Ferrari.
naa.
Ironically, the 996 facelift and 997 share the same engine - the 3.6 lump.
Its not better or worse than the 3.4 in the early facelifts - what you've heard of is one or two failures that have caused mass hysteria that wouldn't even cause a blimp had it been a BMW or Ferrari.
Not true, there are significant internal differences introduced for the 997 3.6, aimed at increased reliability. The Intermediate shaft uses a larger bearing plus seal.
You might be right that some imporvements in some areas have been made - but on the other hand some of the other changes are some that I expect problems with over time that were not present in the 3.4 and the extra low down torque adds load to all the parts. The main timing chains look like they may struggle at higher mileages due to the comparatively small angular contact quadrant and movement of the inlet camshaft timing.
The intermediate shaft has had several re-designs - and I have yet to notice a mathemetical reduction in the numbers failing at given mileages.
The inlet camshaft may wear (due to the very thin contact faces) and the variable inlet valve stroke tappets may prove troublesome. With the cars having covered less miles on average it is difficult to draw too many conclusions yet but so far the numbers failing at about the same age as the 3.4's mainly started to be a problem seems very similar to me.
Finally the cylinder bores are still the same wall thickness as the 3.4 and less than all the Boxsters despite the increased loads and power.
I guess only time will tell.
Baz Hartech
The intermediate shaft has had several re-designs - and I have yet to notice a mathemetical reduction in the numbers failing at given mileages.
The inlet camshaft may wear (due to the very thin contact faces) and the variable inlet valve stroke tappets may prove troublesome. With the cars having covered less miles on average it is difficult to draw too many conclusions yet but so far the numbers failing at about the same age as the 3.4's mainly started to be a problem seems very similar to me.
Finally the cylinder bores are still the same wall thickness as the 3.4 and less than all the Boxsters despite the increased loads and power.
I guess only time will tell.
Baz Hartech
hartech said:
I think it is important to understand that the 996 (and probably 997) engines are not so much fragile as manufactured in such a way that a small number fail where others continue to work just fine for huge mileages. It is more that SOME are fragile rather than that they are all fragile - due partly to modern design, materials and assembly techniques.
Some long term engineering problems also exist that suggest that expensive rebuilds will be needed earlier in the car's life than previous models - probably requiring parts that used to last almost for ever before - so changing long term expectations for the marque - a bit.
However if you want a high performance car it has to have light imternals and will inevitably be stressed more than a "slower" alternative so all performance sports cars have some element of higher maintenance costs. Furthermore only a small fraction of owners (particularly of new cars) drive them anywhere near their design limits - many never driving them beyond half throttle or 80mph (often depending upon where in the Country they live etc) - so the difference in wear rates, loads and stresses between the same model between different owners - is huge and some engines may never be stressed enough to have problems whereas others may do at quite low mileages.
Previously the cars were so well designed, manufactured and put together that Porsche got a reputation for high performance and exceptional long life - but were close to going out of business as a result. Now they are even better cars, better value for money, Porsche are doing very well - and the downside is that some fail a little earlier than they used to - and I see no other alternative if such cars are going to eventually age to an affordability level for your average sports motorist.
Without customers posting about their problems the independents would not find out where to direct their future investment (as we have) to look into the problems (despite them only affecting a small number of cars). As a result when failures occur there are now alternatives reaching the market to help the unfortunate owners.
Our last few 996, 3.4 and 3.6 repairs (for example) have involved failed crankshaft, cracked cylinders, snapped timing chain, broken intermediate shaft bearing, cracked cylinder head. It is important for the commonality of failures to be assessed by people like us to see if the problems are just rare one offs or indeed an expanding problem that needs attention. As a result of our investigations we have manufactured special parts and are rebuilding a special area in our factory to enable us to handle greater numbers of Boxster and 996 engine rebuilds than we were originally set up for - because we believe that a lot of engines will eventually be affected. We could be wrong and have wasted our investment - only time will tell - if we are right then we can help more owners if and when they need it - such is the nature of business investment.
I think therefore that it is good for these problems to be publicised and also fair to imform others considering buying these cars that such possibilites exist (if only to encourage them into a warranty that may help if the worst happens). So publishing the problems is useful but it can give an impression that the failures affect more cars than they actually do - but this is not in my opinion an example of mass hysteria just useful information that helps minimise the consequences for owners - in lots of useful ways.
Baz Hartech.
Some long term engineering problems also exist that suggest that expensive rebuilds will be needed earlier in the car's life than previous models - probably requiring parts that used to last almost for ever before - so changing long term expectations for the marque - a bit.
However if you want a high performance car it has to have light imternals and will inevitably be stressed more than a "slower" alternative so all performance sports cars have some element of higher maintenance costs. Furthermore only a small fraction of owners (particularly of new cars) drive them anywhere near their design limits - many never driving them beyond half throttle or 80mph (often depending upon where in the Country they live etc) - so the difference in wear rates, loads and stresses between the same model between different owners - is huge and some engines may never be stressed enough to have problems whereas others may do at quite low mileages.
Previously the cars were so well designed, manufactured and put together that Porsche got a reputation for high performance and exceptional long life - but were close to going out of business as a result. Now they are even better cars, better value for money, Porsche are doing very well - and the downside is that some fail a little earlier than they used to - and I see no other alternative if such cars are going to eventually age to an affordability level for your average sports motorist.
Without customers posting about their problems the independents would not find out where to direct their future investment (as we have) to look into the problems (despite them only affecting a small number of cars). As a result when failures occur there are now alternatives reaching the market to help the unfortunate owners.
Our last few 996, 3.4 and 3.6 repairs (for example) have involved failed crankshaft, cracked cylinders, snapped timing chain, broken intermediate shaft bearing, cracked cylinder head. It is important for the commonality of failures to be assessed by people like us to see if the problems are just rare one offs or indeed an expanding problem that needs attention. As a result of our investigations we have manufactured special parts and are rebuilding a special area in our factory to enable us to handle greater numbers of Boxster and 996 engine rebuilds than we were originally set up for - because we believe that a lot of engines will eventually be affected. We could be wrong and have wasted our investment - only time will tell - if we are right then we can help more owners if and when they need it - such is the nature of business investment.
I think therefore that it is good for these problems to be publicised and also fair to imform others considering buying these cars that such possibilites exist (if only to encourage them into a warranty that may help if the worst happens). So publishing the problems is useful but it can give an impression that the failures affect more cars than they actually do - but this is not in my opinion an example of mass hysteria just useful information that helps minimise the consequences for owners - in lots of useful ways.
Baz Hartech.
A quality post
Just the sort of balanced info this site needs
Thanks
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