Big Reds Techie Question
Discussion
ninesixfourrs said:
Who knows ?......are 993 Turbo 4 Brake Calipers (Big Reds) the same as 964 RSR 3,8 L Brake Calipers (big reds)
Not as simple as it first appears I'm afraid. Whilst the 993 Turbo 4 calipers appear identical to those fitted to the 993 RS, the piston sizes are in fact different. On that basis it's unlikely the 964 ones will be the same.
I used to have a chart in my favorites from an American website that showed all the piston/caliper specs , but it seems to have disaapeared..............
Edited by slippydiff on Sunday 4th February 13:03
I haven't looked at one close ebough lately to recall. I would suspect they are different as the RSR was before the 993 came out. AS an upgrade from the RS version, I would have expected Porsche to fit the brakes from the 965T2 & 928 GTs,,,,they may well be bespoke Brembo race items.
Hopefully Rennsreunited will be along to clarify
I assume the consideration is to fit them to your 964RS, remember the 964RSR & 993TT both came on 18" speedlines, I think you may have some fun cramming 993TT brakes under the RS 17" rim, I have seen it done, but not sure if original mounts were used or a mounting bracket was fabricated...I suspect the latter
993 & RS share the same front calipers with the 44/36mm pistons, at the rear the body is the same, but the pistons on the RS are larger at 30/36mm compared to the 28/28 of the TT.
Slippy....one to add to your favourites mate
www.pelicanparts.com/MotorCity/wmv/brakes.htm
Hopefully Rennsreunited will be along to clarify
I assume the consideration is to fit them to your 964RS, remember the 964RSR & 993TT both came on 18" speedlines, I think you may have some fun cramming 993TT brakes under the RS 17" rim, I have seen it done, but not sure if original mounts were used or a mounting bracket was fabricated...I suspect the latter
993 & RS share the same front calipers with the 44/36mm pistons, at the rear the body is the same, but the pistons on the RS are larger at 30/36mm compared to the 28/28 of the TT.
Slippy....one to add to your favourites mate
www.pelicanparts.com/MotorCity/wmv/brakes.htm already got Big Reds on the front (fit inside 17" Cup rims) and standard RS rears (30/28mm pistons) but they're looking a bit tired and rather tatty so gonna get new calipers all round but was wondering whether to stay with standard RS rear calipers or go for the larger Big Red rears but having said that a pal of mines got an NSX and he's upgraded to NSX R Calipers which incidently have smaller piston diameters than standard NSX Calipers its all to do with Disc run out or something ? would this apply to Porsche as well ?......anyways I've located some second hand Big Reds (Fronts/rears) for sale £1680 but my local OPC does 993 TT (Big Reds) for £774 inc VAT and rears £740 inc VAT and they said they'd do me a deal so I'll get them cheaper, so the second hand ones don't seem such a bargain.......anyone have any thoughts
The 993TT rears won't work with a standard 964RS disc - either the offset or disc thickness is wrong, can't remember which. There isn't a standard Porsche disc that will work with the 993TT calipers on the back of a 964. I think you can make up a suitable disc/bell using AP Racing components. 928 GTS front calipers are the same as 993TT fronts, except that they're black and the crossover pipe is at the other end - easy to swap.
ninesixfourrs said:
already got Big Reds on the front (fit inside 17" Cup rims) and standard RS rears (30/28mm pistons) but they're looking a bit tired and rather tatty so gonna get new calipers all round but was wondering whether to stay with standard RS rear calipers or go for the larger Big Red rears but having said that a pal of mines got an NSX and he's upgraded to NSX R Calipers which incidently have smaller piston diameters than standard NSX Calipers its all to do with Disc run out or something ? would this apply to Porsche as well ?......anyways I've located some second hand Big Reds (Fronts/rears) for sale £1680 but my local OPC does 993 TT (Big Reds) for £774 inc VAT and rears £740 inc VAT and they said they'd do me a deal so I'll get them cheaper, so the second hand ones don't seem such a bargain.......anyone have any thoughts
clubsport said:
The very table I was looking for
! (Note to self, never delete ANYTHING from your favorites) Good to know the species muchum anorakum is not extinct!!!!
Ninesixfours, not much point in spending all that dough on new calipers, as Paul says just get them refurbed (Ninemeister will do them) unless you're you experiencing fade with your current set up ?
edited to read, wot he sed before me !
Edited by slippydiff on Sunday 4th February 16:59
Your probably already aware that the big reds on a 965 3.6 turbo with fit under 17" wheels which I had to do many moons ago when I refurbished the speedlines. Don't ask me the prices or part numbers but the 993 GT2 bloody big reds maybe the way to go, I am 99% sure they will bolt to a 993 without any mods so just have to work out if they can be adapted to the 964. If I was going to upgrade the brakes on mine it would be the only way I'd go.
clubsport said:
If you are running big reds up front, it sounds like you have a perfectly adequate brake set up for a 964 why not spend the money on having your existing calipers refurbished and track instruction with the money saved 
firstly there wont be any saving........to have Calipers refurbed was around £450 to have re-coloured, cos there pretty rough and need stripping back to bare metal ie: shot blast + I was told there on their way out (so many heat cycles blah balh, corrosion) new seals etc by which time it would be cheaper and easier to buy new
secondly........do you think I need Track Instruction then ?
Money's not a problem (you lot always worry about money...in fact you sure you ain't my mum cos she's always goin on about money ??)
the Brakes are fine at the moment (albeit Tatty Black and not Red) but I do like to keep ahead of any problems that may rear there ugly head plus nice new shiney big Reds would look the Dogs don't you think
Strange scenario, you come on to the forum asking for advice and when a few of us attempt to offer assistance you shoot it down 
I am sure you don't need driving instruction Mr Rohl, most of us on here who drive on track often have periodic instruction as there is always driving technique and characteristics of circuits to improve on.....perhaps you should be giving the lessons?
I am sure you don't need driving instruction Mr Rohl,
most of us on here who drive on track often have periodic instruction as there is always driving technique and characteristics of circuits to improve on.....perhaps you should be giving the lessons? You could always go for the Brembo GT brakes - look good, but a bit pricey at over £2K per axle. I don't know of anyone who's actually tried these, even though Brembo do kits specifically for a 964.
BTW, if you want red calipers at the back, you either need to get the new calipers repainted or get the kit from FVD or similar, which already have repainted calipers. None of the Porsche red calipers will work on the back of a 964 without modification. I've just fitted 993TT fronts and standard 993 rears which I painted (these are the same caliper as the 964RS), with 965 3.6T discs at the front and standard RS at the back. As you've found, I got all the parts from an OPC as it was the cheapest way to do it.
BTW, if you want red calipers at the back, you either need to get the new calipers repainted or get the kit from FVD or similar, which already have repainted calipers. None of the Porsche red calipers will work on the back of a 964 without modification. I've just fitted 993TT fronts and standard 993 rears which I painted (these are the same caliper as the 964RS), with 965 3.6T discs at the front and standard RS at the back. As you've found, I got all the parts from an OPC as it was the cheapest way to do it.
Edited by Ian964 on Sunday 4th February 21:14
clubsport said:
Strange scenario, you come on to the forum asking for advice and when a few of us attempt to offer assistance you shoot it down
I am sure you don't need driving instruction Mr Rohl, most of us on here who drive on track often have periodic instruction as there is always driving technique and characteristics of circuits to improve on.....perhaps you should be giving the lessons?
I am sure you don't need driving instruction Mr Rohl,
most of us on here who drive on track often have periodic instruction as there is always driving technique and characteristics of circuits to improve on.....perhaps you should be giving the lessons? sorry if you thought I shot your advice down but I must point this out to you "sarcasm is the lowest form of wit " and now your up for a row, so go find someone else you witless wonder....oh by the way thanks for your advice on the Calipers though it was much appreciated and re: my lack of driving ability all duely noted
Edited by ninesixfourrs on Monday 5th February 07:42
964RS, you are totally missing the point here, if you have as you say "big reds" fitted to the front of your car......you will hardly notice any slight upgrade in size to the rear brake piston size.....the front brakes do most of the work. The point being any additional funds spent may as well be spent on the driver as the car is good enough.
Hey I understand but what I was asking was are the 993 tt Big Reds the same item as 964 RSR Big Reds.....I appreciate that upgrading the rears from stock RS items to Big Red items is fairly pointless but as my calipers all round are pretty tatty and black and are as was pointed out to me really due for refurbishment or replacement......(refurbishment was really not cost effective due to their tattiness and the amount of work involved to bring them up to suitable as new standard).....So new calipers would be the order of the day, so I've concluded that for about £150 - 200 more I can have Brand new 993tt Big Red calipers..see my point....but are they the same as 964 RSR Big Reds that was my question also while I'm doing that I thought I might inquire about Big Red rears and have the matching set all brand new and shiny and after all you can't Scrimp money with things like Brakes can you ? it could cost you your life eh !!...maybe I'll just get my standard RS rears refurbed then and settle for new Fronts and have some track tuition with the money saved then we'll all be happy Thanks for all your advice fellas its been much appreciated if at times hard to Extract from all the comedy....Cheers
If you fit big reds to the rear the brake bias will be wrong. At best you'll activate the ABS earlier and increase braking distances and at worst you'll make the car unstable during braking.
You can get round the bias problem by fitting the appropiate brake bias valve ( or an adjustable one like Tilton) but big reds in the rear are still overkill IMHO.
The common "balanced" solution is to fit the 965 caliper in the rear. However there is no brake disc the correct size for this as the 951/964RS rear disc is 2mm too thin. However I've experienced no problems with this set up.
If you're going to upgrade to big reds it's worth considering using the 993tt/RS hydraulics and ABS as well as they are designed to work together and Porsche has done the R+D therein.
You can get round the bias problem by fitting the appropiate brake bias valve ( or an adjustable one like Tilton) but big reds in the rear are still overkill IMHO.
The common "balanced" solution is to fit the 965 caliper in the rear. However there is no brake disc the correct size for this as the 951/964RS rear disc is 2mm too thin. However I've experienced no problems with this set up.
If you're going to upgrade to big reds it's worth considering using the 993tt/RS hydraulics and ABS as well as they are designed to work together and Porsche has done the R+D therein.
tony.t said:
You can get round the bias problem by fitting the appropiate brake bias valve ( or an adjustable one like Tilton) but big reds in the rear are still overkill IMHO.
I Believe FVD supply this adjustable brake bias valve with the Big Red (Front/Rears) brake system they supply for 964's but it's starting to get to complex so I'll stick with RS Rears
gt2-r said:
Hi mister ninesixfourrs. Is this the clubprawnsport car?
Who quoted the refurb cost and said they're on the way out.
Who quoted the refurb cost and said they're on the way out.
You know where I took it Mac I told you the other week....a little disappointed as after I had taken it and left it there on the Saturday I got a call on the Monday with the news and the fact that they couldn't do them till the following week so the 2 day job turned out to be 2 weeks which was no good to me as the car had to be somewhere else the following week for some more fettling
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