Discussion
Hi,
Much as I try and persuade myself to get a nice cheap, frugal hatchback, something keeps dragging my attention back to the front engined porsches.
My understanding is that my old 924S would have been quicker than a standard 2.5 944 and I think I'd want something a little quicker than that. Obviously the S2 is going to be the fastest na 944, but has anyone driven both an S and S2? ......better still an S, S2 and MO30 924S?
It's a silly idea and I should stop thinking about it, but RWD was just so much fun!
Chris.
Much as I try and persuade myself to get a nice cheap, frugal hatchback, something keeps dragging my attention back to the front engined porsches.
My understanding is that my old 924S would have been quicker than a standard 2.5 944 and I think I'd want something a little quicker than that. Obviously the S2 is going to be the fastest na 944, but has anyone driven both an S and S2? ......better still an S, S2 and MO30 924S?
It's a silly idea and I should stop thinking about it, but RWD was just so much fun!
Chris.
Chris71 said:
....and the S?
All the downsides of the S2 (£££ maintenance and the potential to eat its cams) and none of the upsides (210+bhp, big mid-range, updated body, big brakes). The small engine is also renown for its limp mid-range.
However, you should be able to get a good, straight 'S' for £3-4k, whereas a good 'S2' is £6 - £7.5k.
Most folks reckon the 2.7l 8v is the best compromise for those on a tight budget.
SS7
Nah, sorry - don't like forced induction! The appeal of the 944 is (based on the 924S atleast) even a prat like me can balance it on the throttle, doubt I'd be able to do so with 1980s turbo response.
I was going to say - I thought and S was £3-4k and an S2 £4-6k, I haven't seen many significantly over 6 and they're almost invariably soft tops. Do think a lot of people (particularly if they've owned the car since waaaaay back on the depreciation curve) when they come to seel it think "It's got to be worth more than that .....it's a porsche"
I suppose it is a point though, with S2's still being comparitively numerous and only a few grand more I'd be better off saving up. Well, let me rephrase that, happier - technically I'd be better off buying a nice sensible hatchback that does 40mpg.
I was going to say - I thought and S was £3-4k and an S2 £4-6k, I haven't seen many significantly over 6 and they're almost invariably soft tops. Do think a lot of people (particularly if they've owned the car since waaaaay back on the depreciation curve) when they come to seel it think "It's got to be worth more than that .....it's a porsche"
I suppose it is a point though, with S2's still being comparitively numerous and only a few grand more I'd be better off saving up. Well, let me rephrase that, happier - technically I'd be better off buying a nice sensible hatchback that does 40mpg.
Concours turbo for seven grand that sounds good.Been looking for a turbo or a 968 for a bit, normally your looking near 9 grand for concours turbo .If you dont mind my asking weres it for sale.Just been wondering about 968 prices has anyone got a idea whats going on with them.Seems to be some cars in classifieds on here which seem reasonable,and others which seem mad nearly 16 grand i know its a dealer but seems madness to me, the milleage isnt even that low .
The S is very under rated, it came with 190bhp when new and was lighter than the S2. You really do have to rev it to get the best out of it, you can drive the S2 much more gently and get more out of it because of the torquier 3 litre engine.
Coming back to value it all depends how much someone wants to pay for a good one. I'm a 944 nut and sadly I agree that most cars these days are starting to get a bit ropey. Its when they get cheap enough for anyone to buy but can't afford to maintain them properly. Because of this they get even cheaper and the real dogs drag the price down. Good cars will still fetch very good prices, but you have to wait for a buyer who has seen all the dogs.
Very good Turbos are definitelty increasing in value now. I personally know of 3 cars that went for circa £13k back in December. None of them were concours but they were all good cars, with EXCELLENT maintenance and one had a freshly rebuilt engine. People will pay top money for a car that needs no immediate spending. The risk in buying a sub £4k cheapy is you suddenly get hit with a £1k clutch, £1k fuel and brake lines, £1k rusty sills, £500 brakes, £500 shocks
Coming back to value it all depends how much someone wants to pay for a good one. I'm a 944 nut and sadly I agree that most cars these days are starting to get a bit ropey. Its when they get cheap enough for anyone to buy but can't afford to maintain them properly. Because of this they get even cheaper and the real dogs drag the price down. Good cars will still fetch very good prices, but you have to wait for a buyer who has seen all the dogs.
Very good Turbos are definitelty increasing in value now. I personally know of 3 cars that went for circa £13k back in December. None of them were concours but they were all good cars, with EXCELLENT maintenance and one had a freshly rebuilt engine. People will pay top money for a car that needs no immediate spending. The risk in buying a sub £4k cheapy is you suddenly get hit with a £1k clutch, £1k fuel and brake lines, £1k rusty sills, £500 brakes, £500 shocks
Although there are one or two that run reasonably OK the "S" is the one to avoid. They are gutless compared to the std 944 (2.5 or 2.7 8 Valve) and the S2.
The 8 Valves are cheaper to run and the S2 more expensive (like the S) but you get so much more performance for your money with the S2 and nothing more for it from the S. I think there were difficulties over the ECU programming for the S as they test out with quite different power curves set std and even when you alter the camshaft timing they are inconsistent - although it is possible to make them a little more driver friendly by going away from standard timing.
Basically the S was like the Peugeot GTi and Volkswagen GTI first 16 valve engines - of the era - inlets too big and airflow unstable at low revs during acceleration reducing bottom end power. Increasing the capacity to 3 litre with the S2 but using the same top end sorted the problem.
The S proves difficult to tune to run well in all situations as it ages and bore clearances increase etc.
The 924S is great fun, the early models are lower compression and run happily on unleaded and the later more powerful engines provide a very quick and lively car. The wheel width is less and the suspension allows more roll making them very easy for a novice to control in slides and quick corners - a great cheap reliable inexpensive fun Porsche. Le Mans models particularly nice downside poor seat material wears quickly.
Baz Hartech
The 8 Valves are cheaper to run and the S2 more expensive (like the S) but you get so much more performance for your money with the S2 and nothing more for it from the S. I think there were difficulties over the ECU programming for the S as they test out with quite different power curves set std and even when you alter the camshaft timing they are inconsistent - although it is possible to make them a little more driver friendly by going away from standard timing.
Basically the S was like the Peugeot GTi and Volkswagen GTI first 16 valve engines - of the era - inlets too big and airflow unstable at low revs during acceleration reducing bottom end power. Increasing the capacity to 3 litre with the S2 but using the same top end sorted the problem.
The S proves difficult to tune to run well in all situations as it ages and bore clearances increase etc.
The 924S is great fun, the early models are lower compression and run happily on unleaded and the later more powerful engines provide a very quick and lively car. The wheel width is less and the suspension allows more roll making them very easy for a novice to control in slides and quick corners - a great cheap reliable inexpensive fun Porsche. Le Mans models particularly nice downside poor seat material wears quickly.
Baz Hartech
Chris,
You've been asking this question before - "Should I buy an MX5 or a 944 S2?", "What about an old Golf or Corrado instead?".
Mate, I've said it before: Go and buy one. Stop fannying around. If you are really unsure, drive a good example of all the models you are looking for. When you have found which you really prefer, buy it. Then take it home polish it 'till it gleams and thrash the nuts off it regularly.
If you want to have a close look at a 944 S2 and are in London, drop me a line and I'd be most happy to oblige. In fact, my neighbour has just bought an MX5, so you could look at that while you are here.
But get on and look at some cars, don't just keep asking on here!
Oli.
You've been asking this question before - "Should I buy an MX5 or a 944 S2?", "What about an old Golf or Corrado instead?".
Mate, I've said it before: Go and buy one. Stop fannying around. If you are really unsure, drive a good example of all the models you are looking for. When you have found which you really prefer, buy it. Then take it home polish it 'till it gleams and thrash the nuts off it regularly.
If you want to have a close look at a 944 S2 and are in London, drop me a line and I'd be most happy to oblige. In fact, my neighbour has just bought an MX5, so you could look at that while you are here.
But get on and look at some cars, don't just keep asking on here!
Oli.
I test drove an S before I bought my 84 Lux,and I certainly wouldn't have swapped them. Not only did it feel slower, the engine also lost the 8V smoothness which is something I loved about the Lux.
I still miss my early 944! It would be my choice of the 8v n/a models. They feel a lot different(i.e lighter and more agile) to the 85 on model, and are about 150kg heavier. They are quicker too. I've got some old roadtests of the later dash model,and they are quite down on performance compared to the early cars,so much so that Autocar actually retested it, thinking they may have got a bad example-they hadn't. You still see good early 944's from time to time.
I've got a good '92 S2 now which I've decided to hold on to for a while,having driven a few modern equivalents (S2000,RX7/8 etc) and always come away feeling quite smug
I'm looking at maybe a Carrera 3.2 in the summer,but to be honest it's gonna be hard to lose the 944 habit. I wish I still had the old hearing aid beige car
It was such a good example,and might even be more fun than the S2,I even prefer the old interior.And you can even fit Fuch wheels to them (unlike the S2)
I still miss my early 944! It would be my choice of the 8v n/a models. They feel a lot different(i.e lighter and more agile) to the 85 on model, and are about 150kg heavier. They are quicker too. I've got some old roadtests of the later dash model,and they are quite down on performance compared to the early cars,so much so that Autocar actually retested it, thinking they may have got a bad example-they hadn't. You still see good early 944's from time to time.
I've got a good '92 S2 now which I've decided to hold on to for a while,having driven a few modern equivalents (S2000,RX7/8 etc) and always come away feeling quite smug
I'm looking at maybe a Carrera 3.2 in the summer,but to be honest it's gonna be hard to lose the 944 habit. I wish I still had the old hearing aid beige car
It was such a good example,and might even be more fun than the S2,I even prefer the old interior.And you can even fit Fuch wheels to them (unlike the S2) Edited by HAB on Saturday 10th February 19:45
I've had my S for 7 years and its a great car, I've had a promax chip fitted and its made the power curve much smoother with more punch lower down the rev range, on the standard chip you got a significant kick at 4000rpm. I dont have anything to do with Promax, so this is an unbiased opinion. Just find the right car with a good service record.
Speedyman
Speedyman
cuneus said:
HAB said:
I'm looking at maybe a Carrera 3.2 in the summer,but to be honest it's gonna be hard to lose the 944 habit.
Why ?
OK they look great and the soundtrack is better but that's it.
I had a shot of a Carrera last year, and loved the old car feel compared to the S2,and though I'm sure the S2 would be quicker point to point,the 911 is more fun to drive imho. And like you say, the looks and sound have a lot to do with it. (white with red fuch and graphics,please!)
I LOVE the 944 range,and I'll definately have a 250 Turbo at some point,but their will always be a part of me that would regret not owning a 911-The Carrera 3.2 is one of my all time favourite cars,and has been for a very long time.
zcacogp said:
Chris,
You've been asking this question before - "Should I buy an MX5 or a 944 S2?", "What about an old Golf or Corrado instead?".
Mate, I've said it before: Go and buy one. Stop fannying around. If you are really unsure, drive a good example of all the models you are looking for. When you have found which you really prefer, buy it. Then take it home polish it 'till it gleams and thrash the nuts off it regularly.
If you want to have a close look at a 944 S2 and are in London, drop me a line and I'd be most happy to oblige. In fact, my neighbour has just bought an MX5, so you could look at that while you are here.
But get on and look at some cars, don't just keep asking on here!
Oli.
You've been asking this question before - "Should I buy an MX5 or a 944 S2?", "What about an old Golf or Corrado instead?".
Mate, I've said it before: Go and buy one. Stop fannying around. If you are really unsure, drive a good example of all the models you are looking for. When you have found which you really prefer, buy it. Then take it home polish it 'till it gleams and thrash the nuts off it regularly.
If you want to have a close look at a 944 S2 and are in London, drop me a line and I'd be most happy to oblige. In fact, my neighbour has just bought an MX5, so you could look at that while you are here.
But get on and look at some cars, don't just keep asking on here!
Oli.
Fair point - I might just take you up on that one. Whereabouts are you?
To be fair most of the other cars I've mentioned (and yes, they're have been a few!) I could go out and buy now, whereas I'd have to save for a while before I could get a decent S2. Which probably isn't such a bad thing ......I should be able to afford pretty much any example going by, hmmm, about the time the prices go down at the start of this winter. Bargain....
Whilst no bugger is interested in buying it I've still got the Quantum for summer al fresco motoring during the summer too.
HAB said:
cuneus said:
HAB said:
I'm looking at maybe a Carrera 3.2 in the summer,but to be honest it's gonna be hard to lose the 944 habit.
Why ?
OK they look great and the soundtrack is better but that's it.
I had a shot of a Carrera last year, and loved the old car feel compared to the S2,and though I'm sure the S2 would be quicker point to point,the 911 is more fun to drive imho. And like you say, the looks and sound have a lot to do with it. (white with red fuch and graphics,please!)I went from an 86 lux to a 3.2 it was a big mistake,I just could not get use to no luggage space and how old fashioned and expensive to maintain they are.I have a 3.2 boxster now which is smooth quick and practical.Each to their own of course.
I LOVE the 944 range,and I'll definately have a 250 Turbo at some point,but their will always be a part of me that would regret not owning a 911-The Carrera 3.2 is one of my all time favourite cars,and has been for a very long time.
Think I've just seen my perfect buy 
If only I had the cash to hand....
www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/128012.htm
PS Anyone managed to get a mountain bike frame in the back of a 944? (wheels off, otherwise intact)
If only I had the cash to hand.... www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/128012.htm
PS Anyone managed to get a mountain bike frame in the back of a 944? (wheels off, otherwise intact)
chris71 said:
Fair point - I might just take you up on that one. Whereabouts are you? ... Whilst no bugger is interested in buying it I've still got the Quantum for summer al fresco motoring during the summer too.
Chris, I'm in East London - Bow. Let me know if you want to drop 'round - PM me - and you'll be more than welcome to look at a decent S2.
Price-wise, it strikes me that prices are dropping slowly. I paid just over £4k for mine about 9 months ago, and it really is a very very good one. However, I have seen some that look OK in various classifieds for around £3-£3.5k recently, so they may not be as much as you expect. But, beware, they can cost a bit to run and that won't change.
A quantum? Now I have always had a soft spot for them - they were made just up the road from where I lived as a kid ... no, I'm not in the market to buy one but I do like them!
Oli.
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