Cheaper 911s or Dearer Audi R8s.
Discussion
Talking to a couple of Audi dealers at the auctions yesterday,Trying to find out what sort of money the new R8 will be . Turns out that now Porsche have control of Audi this could cause complications on the pricing of the R8.
Audi pricing policy is they make on average £800 per car they sell over their range. I know that Audi make far more cars, but I can not believe the figures these guys quoted for Porsche.
£12000 per car,If this figure is true it would be great if they dropped the price of a 911 rather than increase the R8.
Will try to find out the correct figs,No wonder they make huge profits!!
Audi pricing policy is they make on average £800 per car they sell over their range. I know that Audi make far more cars, but I can not believe the figures these guys quoted for Porsche.
£12000 per car,If this figure is true it would be great if they dropped the price of a 911 rather than increase the R8.
Will try to find out the correct figs,No wonder they make huge profits!!
Dunit,
All you have to do is take Porsches' Profit and divide it by the number of cars they make a year. If you want to arrive at a figure you could then say this is the profit per car... but it don't really work like that...
Audi blokes at an auction are only going to relay info they heard from Fred, who heard it from Bill etc.
It is all useless information at the end of the day....
All you have to do is take Porsches' Profit and divide it by the number of cars they make a year. If you want to arrive at a figure you could then say this is the profit per car... but it don't really work like that...
Audi blokes at an auction are only going to relay info they heard from Fred, who heard it from Bill etc.
It is all useless information at the end of the day....
It will never ever happen. Think about it. You are effectively asking the manufacturer to discount the car they are selling you because they make more money on it then another manufacturer does on a similar model...
So - using that logic to buy a Bugatti Veyron would mean that every current owner would need to hand over another £4m each on account of the alledged £4m loss VW lost on every car.
So - using that logic to buy a Bugatti Veyron would mean that every current owner would need to hand over another £4m each on account of the alledged £4m loss VW lost on every car.
Wouldn't it be the worst decision in business ever if Porsche cut their Profit margins on the cars they sell by about 90%? Especially as everyone that rolls out the factory was sold 6 months ago, not to mention the hit current customers would take on already less than rock solid residuals.
rimmer said:
i cant believe that they make that much per car that sounds ridiculous
Check this thread: www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=333530
Hi
Yes the Audi guys did get it wrong its not £12000 but £14000.
A company in germany called B&D Forecast carried out a survey for a newspaper called Welt am Sonntag which printed the profits for the german car makers as follows.
VW--£202 per car
M/Benz-£455 per car
Audi--£800 per car
BMW-- £1619 per car
Porsche --£14173 per car
You can see now why the OPCs offer low money when you try to part ex 1year old cars .They can get them cheaper new,Mind you Mr Browns happy with all that extra car tax!
Seems to make sense to buy s/hand.
Yes the Audi guys did get it wrong its not £12000 but £14000.
A company in germany called B&D Forecast carried out a survey for a newspaper called Welt am Sonntag which printed the profits for the german car makers as follows.
VW--£202 per car
M/Benz-£455 per car
Audi--£800 per car
BMW-- £1619 per car
Porsche --£14173 per car
You can see now why the OPCs offer low money when you try to part ex 1year old cars .They can get them cheaper new,Mind you Mr Browns happy with all that extra car tax!
Seems to make sense to buy s/hand.
rimmer said:
i cant believe that they make that much per car that sounds ridiculous
Please bear in mind they mean Porsche the manufacturer, not your local OPC!!
And as someone said earlier in the thread, consider the larger amount of cars Audi sell, and they are making far more than Porsche!
This is what happens in specialist car land!
The profite per unit for Lamborghini, and therefore for Bentley ( although not Bugatti ) will increase also!
Small change in comparison to the design, tooling and engineering costs of making the 911 line up!
Dunit said:
Hi
You can see now why the OPCs offer low money when you try to part ex 1year old cars .They can get them cheaper new,Mind you Mr Browns happy with all that extra car tax!
Seems to make sense to buy s/hand.
You can see now why the OPCs offer low money when you try to part ex 1year old cars .They can get them cheaper new,Mind you Mr Browns happy with all that extra car tax!
Seems to make sense to buy s/hand.
I think you misunderstand the way it works, if Porsche make 14K out each car that means that a 100K car costs them 86K to make, the dealer buys it at 100K and sells it at 104K (or whatever their dealer margin is and this is complex with some manufacturers, trust me I used to sell italians, now they can complicate it!)
So a dealer won't make the 14K and therefore can't get the new car cheaper, the main reason you get kicked in the nuts at 1 yr is you lose the vat as soon as you hand your cash over, the depreciation in first year is mainly that plus the stigma of being used. 2nd and 3rd yr depreciation are comparitively low. Thats why people that change yearly are just plain daft, and simply can afford to waste money.
Hi Wild Oliver
I suppose it depends on what sort of margins they get. Years ago the Ford Main Dealer I worked at got 22%, Retail dealers got 17.5% but we had to give discounts to shift the metal.Discounts on Porkers are frowned apon so if you say a 100k Turbo they are prob taking 18K-20k out of the deal hence my suggestion.
The point I was trying to raise was that the Audi guys thought that if the pricing policy was left up to Audi the price of the R8 would be around the 50K mark under cutting a base 911 by 16k. Would Porsche make them charge more or drop the price of the 911.In the end it all comes down to demand for the product. Porsche make fantastic cars but the buying public are fickle and things can change very quickly.
I suppose it depends on what sort of margins they get. Years ago the Ford Main Dealer I worked at got 22%, Retail dealers got 17.5% but we had to give discounts to shift the metal.Discounts on Porkers are frowned apon so if you say a 100k Turbo they are prob taking 18K-20k out of the deal hence my suggestion.
The point I was trying to raise was that the Audi guys thought that if the pricing policy was left up to Audi the price of the R8 would be around the 50K mark under cutting a base 911 by 16k. Would Porsche make them charge more or drop the price of the 911.In the end it all comes down to demand for the product. Porsche make fantastic cars but the buying public are fickle and things can change very quickly.
I don't know what margin they work to at OPC's, I would guess probably circa 10% or lower, still a lot of money don't get me wrong but profit isn't a dirty word, and they are in business, I would be shocked if it was higher as the main reason for high margins is to allow price flexibility, I imagine Porsche nip that in the bud by not giving the dealer any room to manouvre therefore stopping them dropping prices.
As to Audi vs Porsche prices, I would imagine the R8 will be pitched cheaper than the 911, as it is not the same prestige of brand among other factors as the Porsche, I can see basically it fitting together with the tt in the same way as 911 and boxster.
If you think about it Porsche and Audi have very similar ranges now.....
TT roadster = Boxster
TT coupe = Cayman
R8 = 911
Audi off road thing = Cayenne
As to Audi vs Porsche prices, I would imagine the R8 will be pitched cheaper than the 911, as it is not the same prestige of brand among other factors as the Porsche, I can see basically it fitting together with the tt in the same way as 911 and boxster.
If you think about it Porsche and Audi have very similar ranges now.....
TT roadster = Boxster
TT coupe = Cayman
R8 = 911
Audi off road thing = Cayenne
Edited by wildoliver on Thursday 19th April 20:16
The price for a base R8 has been set at 77k But the the next 2 years production has allready sold out. If you want one now dealers are talking about premiums of up to 20k bringing them close to 100K.
Performance for base model is 0-60 4.4 secs topspeed 187 mph . Audi tuners ABT talking for their version 0-60 3.4 top speed over 200k.
Good thing for us Porsche fans they are only making 20 cars a day.
Performance for base model is 0-60 4.4 secs topspeed 187 mph . Audi tuners ABT talking for their version 0-60 3.4 top speed over 200k.
Good thing for us Porsche fans they are only making 20 cars a day.
Dunit said:
The price for a base R8 has been set at 77k But the the next 2 years production has allready sold out. If you want one now dealers are talking about premiums of up to 20k bringing them close to 100K.
I assume that an Audi dealer told you that 2 years production has been sold and there are premiums of £20k.
I know a number of people who believe that Audi have significantly over-priced the R8 compared with the equivalent 911 - decent spec is probably at least 5K more than the C4S (closest comparison, given performance and 4WD), and have therefore decided not to take up their orders. I've deferred my deposit onto the R10, but again fear that this will be over-priced compared to the equivalent 911 (Turbo).
Having seen the car in the flesh, it is a stunning car, but I'm not sure it is better than the equivalent 911, even if it will be much rarer.
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