The 'Ring. Backwards.
Discussion
Sorry to those of you expecting an accident vid, but how cool is this? The Nurburgring done the wrong way around. In some sort of RS. Probably not the first time one of these headed down the Nordschleif arse before tit, but the first time Ive seen it done on purpose.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8H_HgUuuO0
www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8H_HgUuuO0
Edited by loach on Monday 30th April 23:19
There's a similar video of Walter driving the Ring backwards in a 911 - majestic!
www.gelee-deluxe.com/english/index.html
www.gelee-deluxe.com/english/index.html
loach said:
Sorry to those of you expecting an accident vid, but how cool is this? The Nurburgring done the wrong way around. In some sort of RS. Probably not the first time one of these headed down the Nordschleif arse before tit, but the first time Ive seen it done on purpose.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8H_HgUuuO0
www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8H_HgUuuO0
Edited by loach on Monday 30th April 23:19
bet you were marginally disappointed that your search for 'arse ring' only yielded this tho.
loach said:
Sorry to those of you expecting an accident vid, but how cool is this? The Nurburgring done the wrong way around. In some sort of RS. Probably not the first time one of these headed down the Nordschleif arse before tit, but the first time Ive seen it done on purpose.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8H_HgUuuO0
www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8H_HgUuuO0
sorry dude, dont look like the ring to me, mabe the roads near by yes, very much like the road around adenau.
ETA he does jump off road then get onto the ring later one, sorry
Edited by DucatiGary on Tuesday 1st May 12:20
Publicity stunt perhaps, but some of the onboard footage with Heidfeld shows that whilst far from the ragged edge, he wasn't hanging around for a lot of the time. I suppose we in the Porsche forum can but dream that Porsche would ever motivate itself to do anything vaguely exciting in the motorsport arena these days.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrIqXc4bf6U
www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrIqXc4bf6U
www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrIqXc4bf6U
www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrIqXc4bf6U
Hardly matters how many times this has been posted before - it should be made a sticky as far as I'm concerned. Awesome.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO_0Ezwr_TM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO_0Ezwr_TM
loach said:
I suppose we in the Porsche forum can but dream that Porsche would ever motivate itself to do anything vaguely exciting in the motorsport arena these days.
Such as Formula 1 ? Are you sure ?
They seem pretty committed to Motorsport to me if the new facilities at Weissach are anything to go by. With nearly 300 new purpose built race cars being built in 06, for GT3, GT2 and LMP2.
Yes, its a shame that the RS Spyder will not be competing at Le Mans this year but if you read Henri Pesarolo's article in this months MotorSport you'll see how heavily the ACO has a bias towards the LMP1 diesel cars. Why would Porsche want to participate when they can compete on a more level playing field in ALMS ?
Where else would you like to see Porsche racing ?
Edited by GuyS. on Tuesday 1st May 14:20
GuyS. said:
loach said:
I suppose we in the Porsche forum can but dream that Porsche would ever motivate itself to do anything vaguely exciting in the motorsport arena these days.
Such as Formula 1 ? Are you sure ?
They seem pretty committed to Motorsport to me if the new facilities at Weissach are anything to go by. With nearly 300 new purpose built race cars being built in 06, for GT3, GT2 and LMP2.
Yes, its a shame that the RS Spyder will not be competing at Le Mans this year but if you read Henri Pesarolo's article in this months MotorSport you'll see how heavily the ACO has a biased the LMP1 diesel cars. Why would Porsche want to participate when they can compete on a more level playing field in ALMS ?
Where else would you like to see Porsche racing ?
Not sure that I'd be too bothered seeing them in Formula 1 given the last outing, though if the enterprise was to be undertaken in a determined fashion by VAG with Porsche running the programme and doing the branding, I'd rather have it than not. Failing that, where would I like to see them? Where wouldn't I? I'd like to see the Cayman being given the sort of treatment that the Z4M is recieving, and being put on circuits to give us a little breath of fresh air in terms of seeing something else from the Porsche range on circuit apart from the 911. We keep hearing about how the Cayman justifies its ridiculous premium over a Boxster because it's so much stiffer and more brilliant etc. Fine - let's see it in action, then. I watched the Paris Dakar last year, and saw a lot of BMWs, VWs and so on. Don't think I saw a Porsche anywhere in the lineup, though I did see a likeably comic Cayenne variant appear on PH a few weeks ago, which is apparently feted to compete in some obscure event where presumably no-one will ever get to hear about it if it does badly (or where it's sure to win against relatively paltry competition). I'm going to say Le Mans despite the usual stuff about competing with Audi, diesels etc. Whatever about the overall victory, could we stop letting Corvettes run away with loads of prizes therefore allowing the Americans pretend they know how to build production sportscars? Could we have a works-sponsored outfit from Porsche that promotes more than footmats and leather sunvisors? A small division that makes limited runs of Caymans/Boxsters/911 for hillclimbing and/or rallying and/or club racing? True - we've got the GT3 RS, but that thing is able to get through US EPA, has electronic dampers and weighs nigh on 1 and a half tons. Of the 300 cars you mentioned, how many are dedicated to things like the various Porsche Cup championships? Great to see 911s out and about on the circuit, but a rich motoring heritage is hardly built on racing against yourself.
I don't know - is this all just me, then?
loach said:
I don't know - is this all just me, then?
nope.
i find the whole; "you buy a race car, develop it, pay for everything and we'll give you some porsche baseball caps" approach to motorsport a bit cynical, cheap and short sighted. i'm all for profit but i'm pretty sure porsche heritage will go down the swanny unless they start *really* competing. so what if diesel is favoured at lm. find a way. beat them anyway. where's the passion? you've got corvettes and astons running rings round outclassed gt3rsr's and no entry in protoypes. the next generation won't know what a 956 or 935 is.
loach said:
GuyS. said:
loach said:
I suppose we in the Porsche forum can but dream that Porsche would ever motivate itself to do anything vaguely exciting in the motorsport arena these days.
Such as Formula 1 ? Are you sure ?
They seem pretty committed to Motorsport to me if the new facilities at Weissach are anything to go by. With nearly 300 new purpose built race cars being built in 06, for GT3, GT2 and LMP2.
Yes, its a shame that the RS Spyder will not be competing at Le Mans this year but if you read Henri Pesarolo's article in this months MotorSport you'll see how heavily the ACO has a biased the LMP1 diesel cars. Why would Porsche want to participate when they can compete on a more level playing field in ALMS ?
Where else would you like to see Porsche racing ?
Not sure that I'd be too bothered seeing them in Formula 1 given the last outing, though if the enterprise was to be undertaken in a determined fashion by VAG with Porsche running the programme and doing the branding, I'd rather have it than not. Failing that, where would I like to see them? Where wouldn't I? I'd like to see the Cayman being given the sort of treatment that the Z4M is recieving, and being put on circuits to give us a little breath of fresh air in terms of seeing something else from the Porsche range on circuit apart from the 911. We keep hearing about how the Cayman justifies its ridiculous premium over a Boxster because it's so much stiffer and more brilliant etc. Fine - let's see it in action, then. I watched the Paris Dakar last year, and saw a lot of BMWs, VWs and so on. Don't think I saw a Porsche anywhere in the lineup, though I did see a likeably comic Cayenne variant appear on PH a few weeks ago, which is apparently feted to compete in some obscure event where presumably no-one will ever get to hear about it if it does badly (or where it's sure to win against relatively paltry competition). I'm going to say Le Mans despite the usual stuff about competing with Audi, diesels etc. Whatever about the overall victory, could we stop letting Corvettes run away with loads of prizes therefore allowing the Americans pretend they know how to build production sportscars? Could we have a works-sponsored outfit from Porsche that promotes more than footmats and leather sunvisors? A small division that makes limited runs of Caymans/Boxsters/911 for hillclimbing and/or rallying and/or club racing? True - we've got the GT3 RS, but that thing is able to get through US EPA, has electronic dampers and weighs nigh on 1 and a half tons. Of the 300 cars you mentioned, how many are dedicated to things like the various Porsche Cup championships? Great to see 911s out and about on the circuit, but a rich motoring heritage is hardly built on racing against yourself.
I don't know - is this all just me, then?
You make some very valid points.
Regarding numbers, Porsche Post quotes 231 x 997 Cup cars (i.e. GT3 ) 37 x GT3 RSR's (GT2) and 7 RS Spyders.
Porsche do not hide the fact that they run the motorsport department to make money, and do you know what, I don't have a problem with that. It means money is spent on R&D, making the cars work, making them strong. I can't think of any other major manufacturer that comes close, especially when it comes to value for money. I guess the reason they don't have any offical works teams as they would be efectively racing their own customers. Not a great business model.
However, you can pop down to your OPC, write a cheque for £100k and order a brand new cup car, they would probably offer you finance if you wanted it. Now that's still a lot of anybody's money but, for example, if you want the comparable Aston the DBRS9, then "that will be £190k sir". "Would Sir like airjacks, centre lock wheels and a sequential box ? another £30k". More than twice the price. The Ascari, Ferrari etc are all even more. Now the Aston is a cracking looking car which sounds fantastic, but reliable ? The only one in last weekends VLN spent a lot of time in the garage. Porsche's filled seven out of the top ten results, the Aston, driven by works drivers finished 13th.
Yes, a lot of Cup cars are destined for Porsche's one make championship's but you could run one every weekend in a host of other championships and be competitive. All these cars will filter down to club level,I believe there are 7 already in the UK Porsche open as well as Britcar.
The question about the Cayman is a good one, I guess it just doesn't fit in how they view the product relative to the 997 and thats a shame as I imagine it would be pretty good. The Uwe Alzen built one is a pocket rocket with over 500 bhp and I'm sure it must piss Porsche off but as yet reliability doesn't seem to be there.
I think some of what you're saying is what bothers me. There's too much strategising and business planning going on, and not enough anger (for want of a better word). Whatever about competing with its customers (though Porsche has done this before), who exactly are they competing against? As you've said - racing a Cayman doesn't fit in with their plans. Furthermore, making a little lightweight hillclimb/club racing Boxster never fit in with their plans, making a 911 GT2 dominant rather than competitive doesn't fit in with their plans, Le Mans doesn't fit in with their plans, rallying doesn't fit in with their plans, competing with the CGT never fit in with their plans. Apart from making a few quid off the backs of a few hardy and enthusiastic racers like yourself, what exactly are Porsche's motorsport plans? I don't think they have any. Not at the moment. It's all corporate takeovers, 4-door saloons, marketing position and blahblahshareprice, blahblahprofitmargin, blahblahnorisks, blahblah150000unitsperyear. If the Porsche motorsport division have any mission statement from Wiedeking at the moment, I suspect it runs along the lines of "Make sure you make money, shut the f**k up, make sure you make money, don't bother me, make sure you make money, don't get creative and land us in hot water, don't enter anything expensive, don't enter stuff where we'll lose, and make sure you make money."
I get why Porsche do this. It's all "We're Number 1, so why bother trying?". Winning on Sunday to sell on Monday no longer seems to matter - there are a thousand other ways to product place your car in a way to make it equally appealing to Porsche's darling American customers - the ones that embraced its new accessible and cuddly cars from the Boxster onwards in huge numbers. But the die hards like me that are looking elsewhere for our motoring kicks at the moment are waiting for Porsche to get their act together and remind us why we fell in love with and always wanted Porsches to start with. An incredibly beardy perspective no doubt, and one that I might have alone. What would I like to see Porsche do? I'd like to see them get pissed off and go win stuff without looking at the bottom line at every possible step in proceedings. I'd like to see them race as though they were in it for the hell of it.
I get why Porsche do this. It's all "We're Number 1, so why bother trying?". Winning on Sunday to sell on Monday no longer seems to matter - there are a thousand other ways to product place your car in a way to make it equally appealing to Porsche's darling American customers - the ones that embraced its new accessible and cuddly cars from the Boxster onwards in huge numbers. But the die hards like me that are looking elsewhere for our motoring kicks at the moment are waiting for Porsche to get their act together and remind us why we fell in love with and always wanted Porsches to start with. An incredibly beardy perspective no doubt, and one that I might have alone. What would I like to see Porsche do? I'd like to see them get pissed off and go win stuff without looking at the bottom line at every possible step in proceedings. I'd like to see them race as though they were in it for the hell of it.
Edited by loach on Tuesday 1st May 15:54
You've got me, you win.
I can't argue with that as basically, I agree with everything you've said. I can't believe I've been sticking up for the corporate bad boys. Lets round up the horses and storm the castle at dusk.
Nothing would please me more than seeing a Porsche win again overall at Le Mans rather than just a GT2 class win but I just can't see it happening for a while and yes, that is a shame.
However I stick by my guns that Porsche are still more involved in motorsport than any other major manufacturer and that I'm sure will always be the case, which is something worth rejoicing. Also, unlike BMW, Mercedes etc. the cars that they build to race have a direct relationship to the ones in the showrooms, which is why their road cars are just so darn good.
Now please excuse me as I have to go and write Porsche Motorsport yet another cheque to replace my splitter, headlight and front wing which I seem to have left in the gravel at the Castrol S curve.
Guy
I can't argue with that as basically, I agree with everything you've said. I can't believe I've been sticking up for the corporate bad boys. Lets round up the horses and storm the castle at dusk.
Nothing would please me more than seeing a Porsche win again overall at Le Mans rather than just a GT2 class win but I just can't see it happening for a while and yes, that is a shame.
However I stick by my guns that Porsche are still more involved in motorsport than any other major manufacturer and that I'm sure will always be the case, which is something worth rejoicing. Also, unlike BMW, Mercedes etc. the cars that they build to race have a direct relationship to the ones in the showrooms, which is why their road cars are just so darn good.
Now please excuse me as I have to go and write Porsche Motorsport yet another cheque to replace my splitter, headlight and front wing which I seem to have left in the gravel at the Castrol S curve.
Guy
GuyS. said:
However I stick by my guns that Porsche are still more involved in motorsport than any other major manufacturer and that I'm sure will always be the case, which is something worth rejoicing. Also, unlike BMW, Mercedes etc. the cars that they build to race have a direct relationship to the ones in the showrooms, which is why their road cars are just so darn good.
Well I'll agree with you here a little bit about their racecars being so closely related to their road cars - you know - to balance karma. I'd be tempted to say that BMW does a good job of filtering race-derived gear down to their production cars, but they lose so many brownie points for lumbering cars like the M6 and M5 with techno-shite and crappy gearboxes that I won't. Equally, the diminutive Z4M Coupe weighs almost 1,500 kilos - WTF?? In terms of their overall involvement in Motorsport, though, I'm not sure if I agree if Porsche do more than anyone else. Relative to their size, maybe, and of course they've thousands of historic racers to take care of.
Good luck in your Britcar efforts, though. Got a picture to share with us? Remind us that even if Porsche don't give a crap, somebody does?
Fantastic. Cheers for that - 'specially coming out of the little Karrussel (Schwalbenschwanz or whatever)* there - looking committed. How does a Porsche motorbike handle? 
Love your E30, btw.
* or is that the Karrussel? I can't tell. I should be able to. Crap - that's me dreading my next visit there now.
Love your E30, btw.
* or is that the Karrussel? I can't tell. I should be able to. Crap - that's me dreading my next visit there now.
Edited by loach on Tuesday 1st May 16:57
loach said:
Hardly matters how many times this has been posted before - it should be made a sticky as far as I'm concerned. Awesome.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO_0Ezwr_TM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO_0Ezwr_TM
That's ace, has anyone on here ever been in one of those?
magic torch said:
loach said:
Hardly matters how many times this has been posted before - it should be made a sticky as far as I'm concerned. Awesome.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO_0Ezwr_TM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO_0Ezwr_TM
That's ace, has anyone on here ever been in one of those?
No. Why - do you know anyone that has? Though it doesn't count if it wasn't being driven by Derek Bell. Now that would be something....
* waits expectantly.......
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