1986 944 turbo, is it too old to drive hard ?.
Discussion
I,m looking for a weekend/summer toy, originally it was going to be a 3.0 M3 coupe but a 21 year old 944 turbo is for sale 3 miles up the road from me, it's a very clean looking car, 90k or so on the clock and well looked after it seems,and not modified for more power. Not what I would consider a popular colour maybe, sort of dark metallic brown, but all the usual 944 issues seem to be taken care of, apart from it's probably on it's original head gasket. So would I be asking for mechanical/financial grief if I were to use it fairly hard and tweak the boost a bit. And what's it worth realistically.
Mine's an '89 but when it comes to spirited driving or trackdays the age & mileage don't come into it, it's all about condition & if the car's in good shape mechanically everything's pointing in the direction it should be it should be very rewarding to drive & own. A garage queen may throw a hissy fit if you ask it to do some hard work for a change, a car that's had regular use (and maintenance) is likely to stand up better imo.
They aren't cheap to run & if you need to replace something that wasn't designed to be a consumable part then bills can run into the hundreds or thousands. Some parts are expensive due to rarity (a good unrusted s/h front wing is about £100 for example because they often rust at the bottom)
If you decide you want one make sure you view several examples (I looked at about ten & drove two of those). You may go back to buy this one if it's the best of the lot but if you buy it without checking out any others you'll always worry that you bought a duffer because at the end of the day it's an old car & won't be perfect
They aren't cheap to run & if you need to replace something that wasn't designed to be a consumable part then bills can run into the hundreds or thousands. Some parts are expensive due to rarity (a good unrusted s/h front wing is about £100 for example because they often rust at the bottom)
If you decide you want one make sure you view several examples (I looked at about ten & drove two of those). You may go back to buy this one if it's the best of the lot but if you buy it without checking out any others you'll always worry that you bought a duffer because at the end of the day it's an old car & won't be perfect
Thanks for the replies, this car had a new clutch not too long ago, though being an early car it's a 220 bhp version, from the passenger seat it felt brisk but not as quick as I would have hoped, it seemed to be holding enough boost but perhaps I was expecting too much, hence the need to up the boost I thought, or should I really look for a 250 bhp car ?. As for price it's around £5k which I thought was a bit optimistic, I think £4k is more realistic in the present market, what do you people think.
[Shameless Plug]
I'm heavily biased (!), but if you're looking for a good 951 that'll easily cope with trackdays and/or a power upgrade, then have a look at
www.pistonheads.com/sales/52283.htm
[/Shameless Plug]
I'm heavily biased (!), but if you're looking for a good 951 that'll easily cope with trackdays and/or a power upgrade, then have a look at
www.pistonheads.com/sales/52283.htm
[/Shameless Plug]
The 220 turbo becoems hard to drive on a track if you up the boost and although you can improve it by chipping, fitting a bleed valve or a dual port waste gate - that head gasket will be getting tired and I would get the basic engine etc well sorted out before tweeking it.
The cars are good for well over 250K so don't worry about the mileage and £4K does sound more realistic.
Baz
The cars are good for well over 250K so don't worry about the mileage and £4K does sound more realistic.
Baz
Cheers for the info Baz, I've done a few headgaskets and engine rebuilds in the past, is the 944 turbo straight forward or are there any special tools needed. Also the car was a little vibey at idle which suggested o/s engine mount to me, or are there other things that could indicate ?.
Paul.
Paul.
GarrettMacD said:
[Shameless Plug]
I'm heavily biased (!), but if you're looking for a good 951 that'll easily cope with trackdays and/or a power upgrade, then have a look at
www.pistonheads.com/sales/52283.htm
[/Shameless Plug]
I'm heavily biased (!), but if you're looking for a good 951 that'll easily cope with trackdays and/or a power upgrade, then have a look at
www.pistonheads.com/sales/52283.htm
[/Shameless Plug]
Saw your advert and thought it would make a good track day car. I know these can do big miles but I'd rather have the fun putting them on myself. Er unless you were feeling charitable and knocked a K off, LOL. good luck with the sale anyway.
hartech said:
If the vibes go away as soon as you rev the engine a little then it probably is the O/S mount.
They changed the design quite a few times and new ones last longer.
baz
They changed the design quite a few times and new ones last longer.
baz
Thanks again baz, um the more I read about these old cars the more warnings about potential big expense turn up, my bargain porker dream seems to be a bit of a minefield. Is the badge worth the risk or are there better/newer cars offering the same bang for the buck, ie do £5k 3.0 M3s make more sense.
Paul.
blade7 said:
[...are there better/newer cars offering the same bang for the buck, ie do £5k 3.0 M3s make more sense.
Or a (perhaps modified) 200SX for less than that again - well balanced RWD 2.0 turbo, 220bhp stock 250-300 easy, Jap stuff is generally much cheaper to mod/tune than the likes of Porsche. Most popular with the drift crowd but can also be setup well for non-sideways driving too.
blade7 said:
So would I be asking for mechanical/financial grief if I were to use it fairly hard and tweak the boost a bit.
Asolutely not, these cars are built robustly so as long as it's been looked after and you are prepared to maintain it then you will have few problems. You may be right to wisely change the headgasket if you are going to tweak it a little as the original will be very old and could even fail just through old age. My own mildly tweaked '89 car saw me through over 20 track days and 50k road miles before a loose bolt got sucked in to the turbocharger and damaged the engine at 120k miles and I know of several cars closing on 200k miles that see regular track use.
Buy wisely and get it looked at by someone 944 knowledgeable like Baz at Hartech (North), Oli at RPMPorsche (Midlands) or Jon Mitchells Garage (South) and you won't go far wrong.
diver944 said:
blade7 said:
So would I be asking for mechanical/financial grief if I were to use it fairly hard and tweak the boost a bit.
Asolutely not, these cars are built robustly so as long as it's been looked after and you are prepared to maintain it then you will have few problems. You may be right to wisely change the headgasket if you are going to tweak it a little as the original will be very old and could even fail just through old age. My own mildly tweaked '89 car saw me through over 20 track days and 50k road miles before a loose bolt got sucked in to the turbocharger and damaged the engine at 120k miles and I know of several cars closing on 200k miles that see regular track use.
Buy wisely and get it looked at by someone 944 knowledgeable like Baz at Hartech (North), Oli at RPMPorsche (Midlands) or Jon Mitchells Garage (South) and you won't go far wrong.
I think most of the positive comments so far have been about the 250 bhp cars, really I need to drive one to see if it's what I'm looking for, I did mail the guy up the road from me suggesting £4k was more like it for his car but there has been no response yet.
It doesn't matter which Porsche you buy - one golden rule applies - you must spend on looking after them properly when they need it - and then you will have a good chance to enjoy your ownership.
Some models may still let you down (although rarely) so an insurance/warranty/maintenance contract of some kind is a good idea with those - if available.
The 944 turbo is one of the best - but still will cost to maintain or more if you don't do it.
Older cars don't depreciate very much so you can often own one, pay for the maintenance and it can be less expensive or no more expensive than owning a mundane family car - but you cannot get away with it costing you nothing (taken as an average - over a period of a few years and a few owners). There may be the occasional owner who was lucky to buy a good car and have little needing doing during their ownership - or one properly prepared for sale where the seller has covered all the vulnerable issues before you buy it - but still - taken over the life of the car - it needs proper maintenace.
Baz Hartech
Some models may still let you down (although rarely) so an insurance/warranty/maintenance contract of some kind is a good idea with those - if available.
The 944 turbo is one of the best - but still will cost to maintain or more if you don't do it.
Older cars don't depreciate very much so you can often own one, pay for the maintenance and it can be less expensive or no more expensive than owning a mundane family car - but you cannot get away with it costing you nothing (taken as an average - over a period of a few years and a few owners). There may be the occasional owner who was lucky to buy a good car and have little needing doing during their ownership - or one properly prepared for sale where the seller has covered all the vulnerable issues before you buy it - but still - taken over the life of the car - it needs proper maintenace.
Baz Hartech
blade7 said:
I think most of the positive comments so far have been about the 250 bhp cars,
In reality the main difference between the 220 and the 250 cars is the turbocharger, the brakes and the shocks. All of these are consumables IMHO and any car still on it's original items will be due for replacement soon anyway. 20 years later there are far better components on the market, so the important thing is to buy a good chassis and body and replace the components that wear out with better ones.
A 220 car can easily be chipped/wastegated to circa 280bhp, a similar upgrade to the 250 car will yield just under 300bhp so there really is very little in it except the 220 car will spool up marginally quicker. Keep everything maintained properly and either will be just as reliable.
I've just been reading an account of a complete rebuild on a 944 turbo,jeez there's a lot that can go wrong isn't there. Compared to my old 87 Cosworth it seems the 944 is mechanically over complicated, sure a 944 would run rings around the cossie handling wise, and no doubt drives better but i see what you guys meant by being carefull what I buy. Seems like I need to look for a car that has had lot's of dosh lavished on it. Think I read that the 88 on cars had a trans oil cooler and stronger gears too ?.
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