Where do I start?
Discussion
After Folembray I have decided I want a sports car.
I've had a couple of TVR's (over 3.5 yrs) and whilst excellent I have issues with the reliability and inability to budget due to so many "out of the blue" costs. This change of heart (I was always going to go back to the TVR marque) is due to owning a Civic Type R for a year - complete peace of mind and reliability. Basically you start to think "this is how a car should be" rather than "weeeeell, it's a sport car innit? So it's bound to have doors falling off..." !!
The CTR has been fantastic. Practical, cheap and lots of fun and I have really enjoyed it however, I think it is time once again to dabble in the world of 'proper' cars!
As reliability is a considerable factor, Porsche come to the top of my list as the most likely marque. Having never had one before I am a total beginner. A friend explained once that a 996 and a 996 is actually a 911... and I got very confused. Looking on the web, there are so many varients in so many countries and so many editions that knowing where to start is tricky.
I want to spend about 20, but could go to 30 (I am very aware of losing lots on depreciation) and need to know what sort of things would be in my range. Excluding 996's, I once saw a lovely 911 with a glass roof that slid the whole way back and had some tiptronic funny gearbox. (The only picture I have of it is on the right here [url]http://web.ukonline.co.uk/pikeynet/99/05/monaco99/petrol_stop1.jpg[/url] (not good, but hey!).
Like the whole convertible thing, but the sliding glass roof was gorgeous. I also like track days and do about 12k a year.
Any suggestions / tips / comments / advice / places to look would be gratefully received.
Thanks
Ben
I've had a couple of TVR's (over 3.5 yrs) and whilst excellent I have issues with the reliability and inability to budget due to so many "out of the blue" costs. This change of heart (I was always going to go back to the TVR marque) is due to owning a Civic Type R for a year - complete peace of mind and reliability. Basically you start to think "this is how a car should be" rather than "weeeeell, it's a sport car innit? So it's bound to have doors falling off..." !!
The CTR has been fantastic. Practical, cheap and lots of fun and I have really enjoyed it however, I think it is time once again to dabble in the world of 'proper' cars!
As reliability is a considerable factor, Porsche come to the top of my list as the most likely marque. Having never had one before I am a total beginner. A friend explained once that a 996 and a 996 is actually a 911... and I got very confused. Looking on the web, there are so many varients in so many countries and so many editions that knowing where to start is tricky.
I want to spend about 20, but could go to 30 (I am very aware of losing lots on depreciation) and need to know what sort of things would be in my range. Excluding 996's, I once saw a lovely 911 with a glass roof that slid the whole way back and had some tiptronic funny gearbox. (The only picture I have of it is on the right here [url]http://web.ukonline.co.uk/pikeynet/99/05/monaco99/petrol_stop1.jpg[/url] (not good, but hey!).
Like the whole convertible thing, but the sliding glass roof was gorgeous. I also like track days and do about 12k a year.
Any suggestions / tips / comments / advice / places to look would be gratefully received.
Thanks
Ben
For your price range I would reckon either a 964 - about £15-20k (a version of the 911 made from 89-94) or a 993 - about £25-30k (another version made from 94-98).
Targas have a less good reputation for leaking and squeaking than coupes and so fetch slightly less.
Other people will tell you exact model specs and dates and no doubt prices as well
Good luck !
Targas have a less good reputation for leaking and squeaking than coupes and so fetch slightly less.
Other people will tell you exact model specs and dates and no doubt prices as well
Good luck !
paulc said: Like Track days...you want(sorry need) a nice 964RS.
Waiting for Domster to add further praise for this fantastic car!
Cheers Paul.
It's not as if I'ma fan of them
but I would strongly recommend you take your 911 in double espresso form, and budget 25k of your hard earned for a lovely 964RS. If you want to buy something else, just promise me you'll drive a 964RS before you make your final decision.
Right, I'll shut up now and let Don tell you all about the also-fanciable Boxster S, and UV to wade in with tales of Turbo charged hooliganism in Turbo 2s...
Just had a look - yes that's the one! A 993 Targa! Thanks, I know what I want now! However, still rather pricey.
As for the track day usage - I'm not that hard core and it does have to be refined for long distance driving.
I understand that car's with high mileage are not a problem as long as they've been well looked after and have decent history. Bearing that in mind, this tickles my fancy... [url]www.pistonheads.com/ads/detail.asp?i=9997&sc=O15V&s=79[/url]
As for the track day usage - I'm not that hard core and it does have to be refined for long distance driving.
I understand that car's with high mileage are not a problem as long as they've been well looked after and have decent history. Bearing that in mind, this tickles my fancy... [url]www.pistonheads.com/ads/detail.asp?i=9997&sc=O15V&s=79[/url]
It's not as if I'ma fan of them
If you want to buy something else, just promise me you'll drive a 964RS before you make your final decision.
Right, I'll shut up now and let Don tell you all about the also-fanciable Boxster S, and UV to wade in with tales of Turbo charged hooliganism in Turbo 2s...
Cheers... well I suppose I've only ever looked at a 964 RS rather than been in / driven one so maybe I should pay some more attention before ruling it out.
However I'm afraid I do not like the styling of the Boxster!
pikey said:
I would strongly recommend you take your 911 in double espresso form,
Sorry Dom - been trying to translate this, but I'm a bit slow at times. Could you enlighten me pls?!
Ah, I forgot you are not used to Derestrictor's verbage yet...
It basically means a super-pared down version of the 911... essence of 911 boiled down and served up in its purest form... like espresso is the strongest and most distilled type of coffee...
Depends how you like your beans... and whether you like them to squeak.
Anyway, if you want something that's more liveable day to day, I would suggest a 993 Carrera. The 964RS is a hardcore track animal, weaponised for battle against Caterhams and the like. It is difficult to live with, unless you are a bit of a barmpot.
Remember that LHD 996s (the new shape water cooled 911) are creeping into the high 20s now, so that could be an option.
Plus, if you can stretch to 35k, there is a compelling case for a 993 Turbo 4, which is a 0-100 in 9 seconds four wheel drive luxury supercar - very cruisable but also a rocket when Moonbase Alpha calls.
I must stop chatting to Derestrictor, I'm starting to write like him
Suggest pikey gets a 993 C2 instead of a pukka 964RS. I get the impression that a balls-out track weapon, such as we know and love, is a secondary goal. As a 911 virgin, a 993C2 would be an ideal balance between road and track use, more than quick enough on either, slightly safer for the novice, and more comfy and luxurious.
After popping his 911 cherry a 964RS would be a nice upgrade, don't you think?
After popping his 911 cherry a 964RS would be a nice upgrade, don't you think?
Ben, I've just been doing all that sort of research myself recently (as you saw from the motor I brought to Folembray!).
I went for a 993 because I reckoned that it was the most sorted 911 model I could (just about) afford and because of that, it will depreciate less. You can pick up one like mine -- a 95N with 70k miles -- for around £30k or just under, or a similarly-aged LHD version for £24-26k.
My view, FWIW, was that I didn't want the hassles that a 964 might bring on the grounds that when I'm spending this amount of money on a car -- an act that most people I know believe is enough to have me certified as insane -- I want it to be as near bulletproof as possible, both in terms of depreciattion and mechanicals.
Hope this helps...
I went for a 993 because I reckoned that it was the most sorted 911 model I could (just about) afford and because of that, it will depreciate less. You can pick up one like mine -- a 95N with 70k miles -- for around £30k or just under, or a similarly-aged LHD version for £24-26k.
My view, FWIW, was that I didn't want the hassles that a 964 might bring on the grounds that when I'm spending this amount of money on a car -- an act that most people I know believe is enough to have me certified as insane -- I want it to be as near bulletproof as possible, both in terms of depreciattion and mechanicals.
Hope this helps...
Ben.
Well, domster certainly has my number. Yes I'm going to tell you what you could have in the Boxster line.
So you don't like the styling. Neither did I. Then I test drove one. Funny how the styling is now completely wonderful......
These a sublime cars - with a balance and poise on the road and on the track that is unequalled so far in my driving experience.
Its real attraction is not that it does one thing brilliantly well, although for many things this is true, it is that there is absolutely nothing it does badly.
You want to go ski-ing in the Alps. Herr Boxster will whisk you there, carry your skis, carry enough luggage for Mrs Pike not to feel that she is...making do, it will whisk you back and you will not feel tired..and will have cruised at infeasibly high speeds.
The moment the sun shines the roof is off - no matter that storm clouds are just minutes away..for in 12 seconds the roof can be up again and both yourself and the good lady will remain dry.
Track days, sir? The Boxster is a HOOT to drive and the PSM will neither get in the way or spoil your fun - but when the tyre wall looms it will drag your sorry a**e out of the mire and chide you gently with a flashing red light.
It will do all this and more uncomplainingly time and again for years - and if it doesn't Porsche will fix it for you quickly and reliably.
For 30K you could get a very recent Boxster S - which, with 260bhp on tap, has enough power to be considered a "proper one" by the PCGB Cognoscenti. Personally I consider the 2.7 and 2.5 cars to be proper too...but they aren't as quick. Saying that even the 2.5 (which you cannot buy anymore) did 0..60 in under 7 seconds. My S does it in just 5.7.
Before you write the idea of a Boxster off as a "girl's car" or a "hairdressermobile" I suggest you test drive one - or you are also welcome to a demo drive in mine.
My track record on conversions to the Boxster way is about 75%.
Whichever Porsche you buy. You will be buying something very, very special...for all they sell truckloads of them. You know you need one. Enjoy!
Well, domster certainly has my number. Yes I'm going to tell you what you could have in the Boxster line.
So you don't like the styling. Neither did I. Then I test drove one. Funny how the styling is now completely wonderful......
These a sublime cars - with a balance and poise on the road and on the track that is unequalled so far in my driving experience.
Its real attraction is not that it does one thing brilliantly well, although for many things this is true, it is that there is absolutely nothing it does badly.
You want to go ski-ing in the Alps. Herr Boxster will whisk you there, carry your skis, carry enough luggage for Mrs Pike not to feel that she is...making do, it will whisk you back and you will not feel tired..and will have cruised at infeasibly high speeds.
The moment the sun shines the roof is off - no matter that storm clouds are just minutes away..for in 12 seconds the roof can be up again and both yourself and the good lady will remain dry.
Track days, sir? The Boxster is a HOOT to drive and the PSM will neither get in the way or spoil your fun - but when the tyre wall looms it will drag your sorry a**e out of the mire and chide you gently with a flashing red light.
It will do all this and more uncomplainingly time and again for years - and if it doesn't Porsche will fix it for you quickly and reliably.
For 30K you could get a very recent Boxster S - which, with 260bhp on tap, has enough power to be considered a "proper one" by the PCGB Cognoscenti. Personally I consider the 2.7 and 2.5 cars to be proper too...but they aren't as quick. Saying that even the 2.5 (which you cannot buy anymore) did 0..60 in under 7 seconds. My S does it in just 5.7.
Before you write the idea of a Boxster off as a "girl's car" or a "hairdressermobile" I suggest you test drive one - or you are also welcome to a demo drive in mine.
My track record on conversions to the Boxster way is about 75%.
Whichever Porsche you buy. You will be buying something very, very special...for all they sell truckloads of them. You know you need one. Enjoy!
So... (thanks for all the advice guys!!)... I want to look at a 993 Carerra2 - so I shall. Fortunately once I know what to look for the web has plenty of pointers and details.
Also Don... very interesting opinion of the Boxster. Hmmm - guess I'd better at least try / investigate before I write that off too! A friend (BIG TVR friend) hired one (the low powered one) for a week in Aus and was very impressed by the handling that he never shut up. Have heard many stories of underpowered Boxsters though so I may have to go and research that.
One thing is sure though - I *DO* want a 'proper' sports car.. and I want a Porker (I think the CTR can remain though - as a speedy shopping car!).
Another point you guys may be able to help me on... if a car has been modified (shocks, chips, etc...) what does that do to the value? I know that on some marques it reduces it and on some it increases. Opinions?
b
Also Don... very interesting opinion of the Boxster. Hmmm - guess I'd better at least try / investigate before I write that off too! A friend (BIG TVR friend) hired one (the low powered one) for a week in Aus and was very impressed by the handling that he never shut up. Have heard many stories of underpowered Boxsters though so I may have to go and research that.
One thing is sure though - I *DO* want a 'proper' sports car.. and I want a Porker (I think the CTR can remain though - as a speedy shopping car!).
Another point you guys may be able to help me on... if a car has been modified (shocks, chips, etc...) what does that do to the value? I know that on some marques it reduces it and on some it increases. Opinions?
b
hi ben,
If you're daft enough to take the advice of one who has been 'visiting the badgers' (in the elise)* over the weekend...
I been doing very similar research to yourself and manek over the last 6 months I definitely second Don's recommendation to try a boxster.
I've driven 964,993,996 and Boxster S's recently and I think you'd like em all to be honest having seen you grinning ear to ear belting the Type-R round folembray!
Also bear in mind that if you go LHD you could easily pick up a 996 for less than 30k, which is a lot of car for the money, and rather handy for those continental road trips, and inconsequential inconvenience when nipping down the shops..
* if you're not aware of this episode then check the back from folembray thread in 'track days'
If you're daft enough to take the advice of one who has been 'visiting the badgers' (in the elise)* over the weekend...
I been doing very similar research to yourself and manek over the last 6 months I definitely second Don's recommendation to try a boxster.
I've driven 964,993,996 and Boxster S's recently and I think you'd like em all to be honest having seen you grinning ear to ear belting the Type-R round folembray!
Also bear in mind that if you go LHD you could easily pick up a 996 for less than 30k, which is a lot of car for the money, and rather handy for those continental road trips, and inconsequential inconvenience when nipping down the shops..
* if you're not aware of this episode then check the back from folembray thread in 'track days'
Not even slightly tempted by another Cerb - this time in the 16k-20k bracket?? (there isnt much left to depreciate surely?) Then instead of being ripped off you could use an independant like joospeed to make sure it doesnt cost the earth(like your old one did)??
anyway, if your heart is set on a Porker, nice choice. The 993 is the only one that I would buy (looks/ build wise) To be honest it might be nice to sample the stuttgart muscle for a while then sell it on for the same price you purchased it at. Then you could go back to Cerbera land? or perhaps a 996?
Still reckon you will be back in a TVR sooner or later though
Good luck with the next car, remember its always a good idea to buy a car off your friends so you know it well! isnt that right Greg? lol
Can't believe how much that Cerbera has cost both of you.
anyway, if your heart is set on a Porker, nice choice. The 993 is the only one that I would buy (looks/ build wise) To be honest it might be nice to sample the stuttgart muscle for a while then sell it on for the same price you purchased it at. Then you could go back to Cerbera land? or perhaps a 996?
Still reckon you will be back in a TVR sooner or later though
Good luck with the next car, remember its always a good idea to buy a car off your friends so you know it well! isnt that right Greg? lol
Can't believe how much that Cerbera has cost both of you. Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff