Coming over to the dark side...
Discussion
After 10 years of enjoyable TVR ownership, I'm thinking quite heavily of coming over to the dark side...
Reliability jokes aside, I've had 2 minor problems with the TVR over 10 years, so I'm hoping the reputation that Porsches have is as well deserved as the tvr one is undeserved :-)
So, I've got a 500 Chim, which has been a great track day tool, every day car and grand tourer.
But..it's only got 2 seats, and with the little ones now 4 and 5, I've really started to think a car with 4 seats might be a good idea!
So, first question.
Which Porsche is going to be suitable choice comparable to the 500 Chim?
I'm not looking for more power, I'm happy with what the chim has, I'd like a convertible if possible, but I guess good working air-con would be an acceptable 2nd choice.
I suspect that a bog standard porker might be too tame, but I think a GT3 is going to be over budget a tad.
I'd also like to hear about the rumours that seem to follow the car that the dealers are generally crap, so recommendations for dealerships in and about Surrey would be good.
Ideally looking for recommendations that fit a 24-26k budget.
Thanks in advance for the comments.
Reliability jokes aside, I've had 2 minor problems with the TVR over 10 years, so I'm hoping the reputation that Porsches have is as well deserved as the tvr one is undeserved :-)
So, I've got a 500 Chim, which has been a great track day tool, every day car and grand tourer.
But..it's only got 2 seats, and with the little ones now 4 and 5, I've really started to think a car with 4 seats might be a good idea!
So, first question.
Which Porsche is going to be suitable choice comparable to the 500 Chim?
I'm not looking for more power, I'm happy with what the chim has, I'd like a convertible if possible, but I guess good working air-con would be an acceptable 2nd choice.
I suspect that a bog standard porker might be too tame, but I think a GT3 is going to be over budget a tad.
I'd also like to hear about the rumours that seem to follow the car that the dealers are generally crap, so recommendations for dealerships in and about Surrey would be good.
Ideally looking for recommendations that fit a 24-26k budget.
Thanks in advance for the comments.
Assuming a 911 model, for that budget and wanting 4 seats your only choices are a standard C2 or C4 in either 993 or 996 flavour.
The GT3 and RS variants all have only two seats and are more expensive anyway.
Alternatively a 964 would come in well under budget.
Rear seats in a 993 are pretty tiny - my 2 and 4 year olds fit in OK at the moment. 996 is a bit bigger inside and may have more rear legroom.
The GT3 and RS variants all have only two seats and are more expensive anyway.
Alternatively a 964 would come in well under budget.
Rear seats in a 993 are pretty tiny - my 2 and 4 year olds fit in OK at the moment. 996 is a bit bigger inside and may have more rear legroom.
Man overboard 
Get straight back in the TVR forum, now! 
The best Porsche cab is the Boxster without a doubt, but it only has two seats. A 996 cab does have four seats but it will blow the kids to smithereens once you go above about 50 with the roof down (I should know, I bought one for exactly the same reasons as you) and won't get under your skin in the same way as a Tiv, probably quite literally in fact as I've just spent the evening under mine titivating the chassis
If you don't mind a sanitised driving experience then the 996 cab might be ok as it's about the safest ragtop you could put kids in but they are quite.... refined.
In the end I had to go back to running two cars, one for the kids and one for dad
Get straight back in the TVR forum, now! The best Porsche cab is the Boxster without a doubt, but it only has two seats. A 996 cab does have four seats but it will blow the kids to smithereens once you go above about 50 with the roof down (I should know, I bought one for exactly the same reasons as you) and won't get under your skin in the same way as a Tiv, probably quite literally in fact as I've just spent the evening under mine titivating the chassis
If you don't mind a sanitised driving experience then the 996 cab might be ok as it's about the safest ragtop you could put kids in but they are quite.... refined.
In the end I had to go back to running two cars, one for the kids and one for dad
The Griffalo said:
Man overboard Get straight back in the TVR forum, now!
:-)
[quote] Get straight back in the TVR forum, now! :-)
The best Porsche cab is the Boxster without a doubt, but it only has two seats.
[quote]
A 996 cab does have four seats but it will blow the kids to smithereens once you go above about 50 with the roof down (I should know, I bought one for exactly the same reasons as you) and won't get under your skin in the same way as a Tiv, probably quite literally in fact as I've just spent the evening under mine titivating the chassis
If you don't mind a sanitised driving experience then the 996 cab might be ok as it's about the safest ragtop you could put kids in but they are quite.... refined.
In the end I had to go back to running two cars, one for the kids and one for dad
[quote]
I can relate to that, and that's one possibility, however changing the people carrier for a 996 might not get me the brownie points I was hoping for.
Did you get a 996 cab? C2 or C4, which do you think would be closest in terms of performance to the Chim 500?
Some have said the Turbo, which would be disappointing, as it's out of budget.
However, I'd perhaps rather go older and quicker, than newer and slower if that makes sense.
Which other car did you get in the end?
The car you should be after is a Carrera 2 996...and you should probably get the cab if the roof must come off.
Your budget will probably stretch to one.
You should get the newest one you can and budget for Porsche's check over and warranty. Do you a grand or so getting that but insures against the worst. Despite Porsche's reputation there are engine and gearbox failures and OPC prices will make your eyes water and your sphincter twitch - even in comparison to TVR main dealer prices. Good independents cost less and can offer an excellent service - just as they do in the TVR world.
The power will be broadly similar...but the delivery a great deal more "refined" as Griffalo put it. IMO its not in the spirit of the car to fit a noisy sports exhaust but some owners do. Although doing this will probably ensure you can't do a trackday ever again.
Errrm. Buy one with PSM. It was an option on early cars. Anyone who has ever owned a 911 will probably have spun it - the engine hanging out the back being the reason. You really, really don't want this happening on the road and PSM is a pretty great insurance policy you can switch off when you want to play...coming from a Chim you will be AMAZED at the level of grip under power even in the wet - until the point you fly backwards into a hedge. You have been warned.
The Box is sweeter handling (they tell me: BliarOut is the best man for a direct comparison - my 911 was an older model) - for this reason I've had two of 'em. But it's not the car for you if you need four(ish) seats.
Your budget will probably stretch to one.
You should get the newest one you can and budget for Porsche's check over and warranty. Do you a grand or so getting that but insures against the worst. Despite Porsche's reputation there are engine and gearbox failures and OPC prices will make your eyes water and your sphincter twitch - even in comparison to TVR main dealer prices. Good independents cost less and can offer an excellent service - just as they do in the TVR world.
The power will be broadly similar...but the delivery a great deal more "refined" as Griffalo put it. IMO its not in the spirit of the car to fit a noisy sports exhaust but some owners do. Although doing this will probably ensure you can't do a trackday ever again.
Errrm. Buy one with PSM. It was an option on early cars. Anyone who has ever owned a 911 will probably have spun it - the engine hanging out the back being the reason. You really, really don't want this happening on the road and PSM is a pretty great insurance policy you can switch off when you want to play...coming from a Chim you will be AMAZED at the level of grip under power even in the wet - until the point you fly backwards into a hedge. You have been warned.
The Box is sweeter handling (they tell me: BliarOut is the best man for a direct comparison - my 911 was an older model) - for this reason I've had two of 'em. But it's not the car for you if you need four(ish) seats.
Cyberian said:
After 10 years of enjoyable TVR ownership, I'm thinking quite heavily of coming over to the dark side...
Reliability jokes aside, I've had 2 minor problems with the TVR over 10 years, so I'm hoping the reputation that Porsches have is as well deserved as the tvr one is undeserved :-)
So, I've got a 500 Chim, which has been a great track day tool, every day car and grand tourer.
But..it's only got 2 seats, and with the little ones now 4 and 5, I've really started to think a car with 4 seats might be a good idea!
So, first question.
Which Porsche is going to be suitable choice comparable to the 500 Chim?
I'm not looking for more power, I'm happy with what the chim has, I'd like a convertible if possible, but I guess good working air-con would be an acceptable 2nd choice.
I suspect that a bog standard porker might be too tame, but I think a GT3 is going to be over budget a tad.
I'd also like to hear about the rumours that seem to follow the car that the dealers are generally crap, so recommendations for dealerships in and about Surrey would be good.
Ideally looking for recommendations that fit a 24-26k budget.
Thanks in advance for the comments.
If you want a decent 4 seat cab look no further than an M3 imo..quite quick,lots of room and lots of choice.One of the best value for money cars i have owned.Reliability jokes aside, I've had 2 minor problems with the TVR over 10 years, so I'm hoping the reputation that Porsches have is as well deserved as the tvr one is undeserved :-)
So, I've got a 500 Chim, which has been a great track day tool, every day car and grand tourer.
But..it's only got 2 seats, and with the little ones now 4 and 5, I've really started to think a car with 4 seats might be a good idea!
So, first question.
Which Porsche is going to be suitable choice comparable to the 500 Chim?
I'm not looking for more power, I'm happy with what the chim has, I'd like a convertible if possible, but I guess good working air-con would be an acceptable 2nd choice.
I suspect that a bog standard porker might be too tame, but I think a GT3 is going to be over budget a tad.
I'd also like to hear about the rumours that seem to follow the car that the dealers are generally crap, so recommendations for dealerships in and about Surrey would be good.
Ideally looking for recommendations that fit a 24-26k budget.
Thanks in advance for the comments.
Ahem Don, I AM BliarOut but as I'm now truly a member of the darkside I felt a change was in order
I had a C4 cab tip, the slowest of the lot. The quickest 996 cab is the C2 manual (excluding the turbo ones), but it does still carry a slight penalty due to the extra weight. The C2 also has quite a bit more boot space as it doesn't have the FWD gubbins in the front competing for boot space.
Performance wise it will probably be a fraction down on the Chimp depending on which one you have but it will definitely feel slower as the sensation of speed just isn't there. My old C4 would cruise at 130 with the roof up and you could still talk without raising your voice and it didn't feel like you were travelling quickly.
I'd say drive one and preferably try it on a day when you can put the kids in the back with the roof down as well to see how you get on. If you're using it without rear passengers the wind deflector is a must as it gets quite blowy in there.
They're phenomenally accomplished cars but it'll probably feel a bit bland after a Chimp.
I had a C4 cab tip, the slowest of the lot. The quickest 996 cab is the C2 manual (excluding the turbo ones), but it does still carry a slight penalty due to the extra weight. The C2 also has quite a bit more boot space as it doesn't have the FWD gubbins in the front competing for boot space.
Performance wise it will probably be a fraction down on the Chimp depending on which one you have but it will definitely feel slower as the sensation of speed just isn't there. My old C4 would cruise at 130 with the roof up and you could still talk without raising your voice and it didn't feel like you were travelling quickly.
I'd say drive one and preferably try it on a day when you can put the kids in the back with the roof down as well to see how you get on. If you're using it without rear passengers the wind deflector is a must as it gets quite blowy in there.
They're phenomenally accomplished cars but it'll probably feel a bit bland after a Chimp.
The Griffalo said:
Ahem Don, I AM BliarOut but as I'm now truly a member of the darkside I felt a change was in order
I had a C4 cab tip, the slowest of the lot. The quickest 996 cab is the C2 manual (excluding the turbo ones), but it does still carry a slight penalty due to the extra weight. The C2 also has quite a bit more boot space as it doesn't have the FWD gubbins in the front competing for boot space.
Performance wise it will probably be a fraction down on the Chimp depending on which one you have but it will definitely feel slower as the sensation of speed just isn't there. My old C4 would cruise at 130 with the roof up and you could still talk without raising your voice and it didn't feel like you were travelling quickly.
I'd say drive one and preferably try it on a day when you can put the kids in the back with the roof down as well to see how you get on. If you're using it without rear passengers the wind deflector is a must as it gets quite blowy in there.
They're phenomenally accomplished cars but it'll probably feel a bit bland after a Chimp.
It's going to be up against the quite brutal 500 Chimp, so anything else is going to feel more refined :-)I had a C4 cab tip, the slowest of the lot. The quickest 996 cab is the C2 manual (excluding the turbo ones), but it does still carry a slight penalty due to the extra weight. The C2 also has quite a bit more boot space as it doesn't have the FWD gubbins in the front competing for boot space.
Performance wise it will probably be a fraction down on the Chimp depending on which one you have but it will definitely feel slower as the sensation of speed just isn't there. My old C4 would cruise at 130 with the roof up and you could still talk without raising your voice and it didn't feel like you were travelling quickly.
I'd say drive one and preferably try it on a day when you can put the kids in the back with the roof down as well to see how you get on. If you're using it without rear passengers the wind deflector is a must as it gets quite blowy in there.
They're phenomenally accomplished cars but it'll probably feel a bit bland after a Chimp.
In reply to the other poster, I've looked at M3's but can't quite see myself as that old yet, I might just skip it when I'm old and go for the merc
Gruffalo, I think you're saying the C2 manual is the one to go for, so I'll keep an eye out for a 996 C2 cab.
I don't mind the high mileage too much, as I'm firmly intending to use it as an everyday car anyway, so it's going to get an extra 60k miles over the next 2 - 3 years anyway.
Thanks for all the tips.
Anything specifically to watch out on C2 cabs?
But I am right: you are best placed to comment on the comparison...Cyberian said:
The Griffalo said:
Ahem Don, I AM BliarOut but as I'm now truly a member of the darkside I felt a change was in order
I had a C4 cab tip, the slowest of the lot. The quickest 996 cab is the C2 manual (excluding the turbo ones), but it does still carry a slight penalty due to the extra weight. The C2 also has quite a bit more boot space as it doesn't have the FWD gubbins in the front competing for boot space.
Performance wise it will probably be a fraction down on the Chimp depending on which one you have but it will definitely feel slower as the sensation of speed just isn't there. My old C4 would cruise at 130 with the roof up and you could still talk without raising your voice and it didn't feel like you were travelling quickly.
I'd say drive one and preferably try it on a day when you can put the kids in the back with the roof down as well to see how you get on. If you're using it without rear passengers the wind deflector is a must as it gets quite blowy in there.
They're phenomenally accomplished cars but it'll probably feel a bit bland after a Chimp.
It's going to be up against the quite brutal 500 Chimp, so anything else is going to feel more refined :-)I had a C4 cab tip, the slowest of the lot. The quickest 996 cab is the C2 manual (excluding the turbo ones), but it does still carry a slight penalty due to the extra weight. The C2 also has quite a bit more boot space as it doesn't have the FWD gubbins in the front competing for boot space.
Performance wise it will probably be a fraction down on the Chimp depending on which one you have but it will definitely feel slower as the sensation of speed just isn't there. My old C4 would cruise at 130 with the roof up and you could still talk without raising your voice and it didn't feel like you were travelling quickly.
I'd say drive one and preferably try it on a day when you can put the kids in the back with the roof down as well to see how you get on. If you're using it without rear passengers the wind deflector is a must as it gets quite blowy in there.
They're phenomenally accomplished cars but it'll probably feel a bit bland after a Chimp.
In reply to the other poster, I've looked at M3's but can't quite see myself as that old yet, I might just skip it when I'm old and go for the merc
Gruffalo, I think you're saying the C2 manual is the one to go for, so I'll keep an eye out for a 996 C2 cab.
I don't mind the high mileage too much, as I'm firmly intending to use it as an everyday car anyway, so it's going to get an extra 60k miles over the next 2 - 3 years anyway.
Thanks for all the tips.
Anything specifically to watch out on C2 cabs?
TVR 500 to 996 C2 is a good route to follow. I had TVR's for 6 years and then in 2002 changed to a 996 C2, with a very sports orientated spec, and haven't looked back.
Not totally reliable, but has been far asier to live with for 80000 miles, and still great fun. Sports exhaust comes close to the TVR rumble, and fitted with GT3 suspension, rides much firmer and handles far better than the TVR could ever dream about.
Also, the real bonus, if going to use on a daily basis, the running costs of the 996 are 'cheap as chips' in comparison to the TVR. Services are half the price and double the intervals, throw in better fuel economy and you could soon be able buy another TVR as well.
As for your price range, mine's soon going to a freind for £25K, which is one owner, 996 C2, in Meridian / Black, with FPSH, 80K miles, spts seats, spts exhaust, spts tail-pipes, GT3 suspension(30mm lower), 19" 997 Carrera wheels,(plus orig. 18" Carrera) bose sound pack with 6cd player, bi-xenons, and a few cosmetics.
Wouldn't question your decision, you know it makes sense!
Not totally reliable, but has been far asier to live with for 80000 miles, and still great fun. Sports exhaust comes close to the TVR rumble, and fitted with GT3 suspension, rides much firmer and handles far better than the TVR could ever dream about.
Also, the real bonus, if going to use on a daily basis, the running costs of the 996 are 'cheap as chips' in comparison to the TVR. Services are half the price and double the intervals, throw in better fuel economy and you could soon be able buy another TVR as well.
As for your price range, mine's soon going to a freind for £25K, which is one owner, 996 C2, in Meridian / Black, with FPSH, 80K miles, spts seats, spts exhaust, spts tail-pipes, GT3 suspension(30mm lower), 19" 997 Carrera wheels,(plus orig. 18" Carrera) bose sound pack with 6cd player, bi-xenons, and a few cosmetics.
Wouldn't question your decision, you know it makes sense!
Flow 99 has it precied quite well.
I also did TVR to 996 C2 Cab but via a Cerbera (Back seats) which was silly money to run (unless you own a garage or a race team). As people said things do go wrong but they can be warrantied. I drove 10 in the week that I purchased mine, they don't vary as much as TVRs (i.e the spead between a good un and a bad un is less.
996 C2 has most boot/rear seat space, Cab slightly less rear seat space (my 7 and 5 yera olds love it though).
Sports exhaust still won't make it sound like a TVR and the power delivery is further up the rev range when compared to a TVR.
Drive lots and as they say don't buy the first you try.
Sean
I also did TVR to 996 C2 Cab but via a Cerbera (Back seats) which was silly money to run (unless you own a garage or a race team). As people said things do go wrong but they can be warrantied. I drove 10 in the week that I purchased mine, they don't vary as much as TVRs (i.e the spead between a good un and a bad un is less.
996 C2 has most boot/rear seat space, Cab slightly less rear seat space (my 7 and 5 yera olds love it though).
Sports exhaust still won't make it sound like a TVR and the power delivery is further up the rev range when compared to a TVR.
Drive lots and as they say don't buy the first you try.
Sean
Adam B said:
Cyberian said:
In reply to the other poster, I've looked at M3's but can't quite see myself as that old yet, I might just skip it when I'm old and go for the merc
curious, a 911 cab is more of an old man's car than an M3 cab IMVHOJust saying it as I see it, besides round here, Surrey way they are as common as muck. Not saying that the porker is that much more exclusive, but you do see a lot less of them, especially the rag tops.
Ian
flow99 said:
TVR 500 to 996 C2 is a good route to follow. I had TVR's for 6 years and then in 2002 changed to a 996 C2, with a very sports orientated spec, and haven't looked back.
Not totally reliable, but has been far asier to live with for 80000 miles, and still great fun. Sports exhaust comes close to the TVR rumble, and fitted with GT3 suspension, rides much firmer and handles far better than the TVR could ever dream about.
Really? My understanding was it was good with all the electronic gizmos turned on, but not a patch when they're turned off? Not totally reliable, but has been far asier to live with for 80000 miles, and still great fun. Sports exhaust comes close to the TVR rumble, and fitted with GT3 suspension, rides much firmer and handles far better than the TVR could ever dream about.
Is the C2 as good a track day car as the Chim?
[quote]
Also, the real bonus, if going to use on a daily basis, the running costs of the 996 are 'cheap as chips' in comparison to the TVR. Services are half the price and double the intervals, throw in better fuel economy and you could soon be able buy another TVR as well.
[quote]
As for your price range, mine's soon going to a freind for £25K, which is one owner, 996 C2, in Meridian / Black, with FPSH, 80K miles, spts seats, spts exhaust, spts tail-pipes, GT3 suspension(30mm lower), 19" 997 Carrera wheels,(plus orig. 18" Carrera) bose sound pack with 6cd player, bi-xenons, and a few cosmetics.
Wouldn't question your decision, you know it makes sense!
How much more is it normal to pay for the cab over the tin top?
Again thanks for all the real world feedback.
Any opinions on dealers/specialist esp in the Surrey area?
Cyberian said:
Really? My understanding was it was good with all the electronic gizmos turned on, but not a patch when they're turned off?
Is the C2 as good a track day car as the Chim?
Is the C2 as good a track day car as the Chim?
- PSM is a fabulous system. It doesn't get in the way - unless you're talented beyond the usual owner - whereupon you can switch it off and spin away to hearts content.
- I have been a Chim owner for eight years now. I've been a Porsche owner for seven. I think I know what I am talking about when I say that the C2 will be significantly quicker around any track you care to mention in the UK with the same driver behind the wheel. Its not that the Chim isn't fast. It's not that the Chim isn't fun - or that it's soundtrack is lacking. Nope. Its because a Porsche, even one with the engine in the wrong place, has been engineered to go fast in a straight line and, more importantly, has been engineered to go fast around corners.
If you buy a C2 don't fear about taking it to the track: Drive there, hoon, and drive back. Its what they're for!
tertius said:
Assuming a 911 model, for that budget and wanting 4 seats your only choices are a standard C2 or C4 in either 993 or 996 flavour.
The GT3 and RS variants all have only two seats and are more expensive anyway.
Alternatively a 964 would come in well under budget.
Rear seats in a 993 are pretty tiny - my 2 and 4 year olds fit in OK at the moment. 996 is a bit bigger inside and may have more rear legroom.
The GT3 and RS variants all have only two seats and are more expensive anyway.
Alternatively a 964 would come in well under budget.
Rear seats in a 993 are pretty tiny - my 2 and 4 year olds fit in OK at the moment. 996 is a bit bigger inside and may have more rear legroom.
tertius said:
Assuming a 911 model, for that budget and wanting 4 seats your only choices are a standard C2 or C4 in either 993 or 996 flavour.
The GT3 and RS variants all have only two seats and are more expensive anyway.
Alternatively a 964 would come in well under budget.
Rear seats in a 993 are pretty tiny - my 2 and 4 year olds fit in OK at the moment. 996 is a bit bigger inside and may have more rear legroom.
strange choices those,but whilst reccomending Citroens why miss out the C3? The C8 is excellent if you manage to knock out 5 kids in the near future.The GT3 and RS variants all have only two seats and are more expensive anyway.
Alternatively a 964 would come in well under budget.
Rear seats in a 993 are pretty tiny - my 2 and 4 year olds fit in OK at the moment. 996 is a bit bigger inside and may have more rear legroom.
Don said:
Cyberian said:
Really? My understanding was it was good with all the electronic gizmos turned on, but not a patch when they're turned off?
Is the C2 as good a track day car as the Chim?
Is the C2 as good a track day car as the Chim?
- PSM is a fabulous system. It doesn't get in the way - unless you're talented beyond the usual owner - whereupon you can switch it off and spin away to hearts content.
If the usual owner never takes it near a track, or does any advanced training then yes, I'd say I was.
If the usual owner has done more than 30 track days and quite a lot of advanced training, then I'd say I was on par :-)
Can you keep the C2 on the edge the same as you can with the Chim ( you know the tyres be damned go sideways everywhere approach?)
[quote]
- I have been a Chim owner for eight years now. I've been a Porsche owner for seven. I think I know what I am talking about when I say that the C2 will be significantly quicker around any track you care to mention in the UK with the same driver behind the wheel. Its not that the Chim isn't fast. It's not that the Chim isn't fun - or that it's soundtrack is lacking. Nope. Its because a Porsche, even one with the engine in the wrong place, has been engineered to go fast in a straight line and, more importantly, has been engineered to go fast around corners.
If you buy a C2 don't fear about taking it to the track: Drive there, hoon, and drive back. Its what they're for!
Now I just need to hear about servicing it, Main Dealer or Specialist?
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