Discussion
CSL was fairly boring imho, bland looks, bumpy ride, uncomfortable seats, resonant carbon interior - i dont think its much better than a standard m3 in real world (i owned both).
By comparison the C2 996's i owned were much more exciting to drive, nicer engine note, sharper steering etc
Bennno
I have a CSL and also a GT2.
The SMG gearbox is excellent on track, incredibly fast shifts and I like it a lot. It will keep up with GT3s on the 'ring. On the faster circuits such as Silverstone the 997 GT3s are faster given their power advantage.
It's incredibly practical, four seats, big boot etc. I usually take a complete set of rear wheels/tyres in the back on the folded down rear seats when going to trackdays or the 'ring. This is great for enabling Cups for track and PS2s for road and also having spares in case of problems.
It is not a car that gets noticed or respected by non-enthusiasts, so people tend to hold you up in the fast lane as all they see is a 3-series, whereas in my GT2 (or Gallardo) they get out of the way very quickly.
One definite advantage to the CSL is its benign handling, you can really get it out of shape and it doesn't bite, it's very easy to hold powerslides at quite big angles and modulate on the power or with steering in a way you cannot in the Porsche, as the rear-engined mass makes it much harder to control slides.
I don't think the CSL or GT3 are better than each other in aggregate as they each offer a different experience.
What is clear is that CSLs have recently become sought after and there are very few for sale, with prices firming slightly. Only 422 were sold in the UK, so it's actually slightly rarer that 996 GT3 (there were 350 GT3s and 119 GT3 RSs sold officially in the UK).
It is a harsh car for daily use though, as is the GT3.
The SMG gearbox is excellent on track, incredibly fast shifts and I like it a lot. It will keep up with GT3s on the 'ring. On the faster circuits such as Silverstone the 997 GT3s are faster given their power advantage.
It's incredibly practical, four seats, big boot etc. I usually take a complete set of rear wheels/tyres in the back on the folded down rear seats when going to trackdays or the 'ring. This is great for enabling Cups for track and PS2s for road and also having spares in case of problems.
It is not a car that gets noticed or respected by non-enthusiasts, so people tend to hold you up in the fast lane as all they see is a 3-series, whereas in my GT2 (or Gallardo) they get out of the way very quickly.
One definite advantage to the CSL is its benign handling, you can really get it out of shape and it doesn't bite, it's very easy to hold powerslides at quite big angles and modulate on the power or with steering in a way you cannot in the Porsche, as the rear-engined mass makes it much harder to control slides.
I don't think the CSL or GT3 are better than each other in aggregate as they each offer a different experience.
What is clear is that CSLs have recently become sought after and there are very few for sale, with prices firming slightly. Only 422 were sold in the UK, so it's actually slightly rarer that 996 GT3 (there were 350 GT3s and 119 GT3 RSs sold officially in the UK).
It is a harsh car for daily use though, as is the GT3.
Edited by Guyr on Saturday 30th June 15:12
It went off topic a couple of times 
but here are the answers I got to the same question just over a year ago.........
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
Enjoy
P.S If you can't be arsed to read it all, I ended up buying a MK1 GT3 (and enjoyed every second of its ownership)
but here are the answers I got to the same question just over a year ago.........http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
Enjoy
P.S If you can't be arsed to read it all, I ended up buying a MK1 GT3 (and enjoyed every second of its ownership)
I just get the impression that it would be allot easier to hustle the csl around due to the weight distribution, I'll have to take one for a test drive.
I find the gt3 feels a little cumbersome on quite open roads when making adjustments to direction or quick flicks around small kinks at speed,
Interesting to hear opinions, does the gear shift work well in terms of going back through the gears approaching corners, the toe heel type in a manual?
many thanks
I find the gt3 feels a little cumbersome on quite open roads when making adjustments to direction or quick flicks around small kinks at speed,
Interesting to hear opinions, does the gear shift work well in terms of going back through the gears approaching corners, the toe heel type in a manual?
many thanks
I had a CSL that I upgraded a little, and it was as fast round Spa / Brands GP / Oulton etc as a 996 GT3. To get any improvement in you have to buy a RS. Even then, the performance is not that much greater, but the Porsche is a very rewarding drive. Not sure it is worth 2 CSLs though.
£ for £ the BMW is by far the better buy.
I am lucky enough to have a 996GT3RS and do love it, but I tend to take it easier than the CSL as it is much edgier when you press on. Both cars MUST be on cups...
£ for £ the BMW is by far the better buy.
I am lucky enough to have a 996GT3RS and do love it, but I tend to take it easier than the CSL as it is much edgier when you press on. Both cars MUST be on cups...
hi chaps, i sold my csl 12 months ago, very fine car indeed and would eat a 996 gt3 rs on any road other than of billiard nature, which is the car i have just bought, but the porsche its got something about it that the bemmer will never have, whan you get in the cockpit of the porsche you know you are in a special car and can't wait to take it round a track, thats when i have driven it and found it's limets, 
phatgixer said:
I had a CSL that I upgraded a little, and it was as fast round Spa / Brands GP / Oulton etc as a 996 GT3. To get any improvement in you have to buy a RS. Even then, the performance is not that much greater, but the Porsche is a very rewarding drive. Not sure it is worth 2 CSLs though.
£ for £ the BMW is by far the better buy.
I am lucky enough to have a 996GT3RS and do love it, but I tend to take it easier than the CSL as it is much edgier when you press on. Both cars MUST be on cups...
Never owned a CSL, but have driven a couple and have had 2 M3's. I currently have a GT3 and was in the same position 12 months ago, which to buy. What Phatgixer says is spot on I think. The CSL is a great car, and is a lot different to a normal M3 once you get below the skin. I am not sure of anything other than your Caterhams and similar that will get close to a GT3 in terms of feeling or letting you know what its doing, its steering is much more communicative than a CSL's, but again as said above it is much edgier to drive....and they don't like big bumps mid corner. I think the CSL is the better buy if you are comparing talents as they do what they do very well, and it is very subjective as to which one is best. I chose the GT3 as I wanted a 911 having had 2 M3's before it and felt it was just more special to drive. The CSL engine is a work of genius, but I think the GT3 lump bests it. £ for £ the BMW is by far the better buy.
I am lucky enough to have a 996GT3RS and do love it, but I tend to take it easier than the CSL as it is much edgier when you press on. Both cars MUST be on cups...
Might has a CSL next mind..
You can certainly go faster on the road in a CSL, its an 'easier' car to drive at 10/10ths. On a track, same tyres, the GT3... just.
I couldn't be doing with the flappy paddles, they spoil it for me. In my brother's case they have 'broken', not been engaging gear on more than one occasion... one time halfway to the Nurburgring.
I couldn't be doing with the flappy paddles, they spoil it for me. In my brother's case they have 'broken', not been engaging gear on more than one occasion... one time halfway to the Nurburgring.
They are both great track cars. Upgrade the suspension on both and put AP brakes on the CSL and you have a pair of perfect rocketships to enjoy lap after lap on any circuit. The CSL is an easier drive and you can feel the limits alot better than the Porsche.The GT3 is quicker out of the corners but slower in. My CSL is about 2 seconds a lap slower than a 997GT3RS around Silverstone GP, at Donington there is no time difference.
The CSL has a 7:50 lap time of the Nordschleife.....same as a Murcielago and 2 seconds quicker than a Gallardo!
Watch out all you GT3 diehards if as predicted the new CSL goes into production,I`ve had my deposit down for almost a year now.
H.
ps.Without being rude to anyone I feel that some people who never drive their CSLs or GT3s on track have no idea what they are missing and their opinions are a tad wank when talking about these fantastic track cars.
The CSL has a 7:50 lap time of the Nordschleife.....same as a Murcielago and 2 seconds quicker than a Gallardo!
Watch out all you GT3 diehards if as predicted the new CSL goes into production,I`ve had my deposit down for almost a year now.
H.
ps.Without being rude to anyone I feel that some people who never drive their CSLs or GT3s on track have no idea what they are missing and their opinions are a tad wank when talking about these fantastic track cars.
gorisan26 said:
Is there any more feed back on the clutch issue? sounds like the only real problem with them!
I never had a problem with the clutch on my csl..its the rear diff than can cause problems..i owned an m3 and a csl and both had replacement diffs(under warranty//if not warranted then cud be expensive)....csl by far the more practical day to day (compared to a gt3)...and on the majority of bumpy roads deffo quicker than my gt3..but on a track(which is where the gt3 is intended for) you will smile far more than u ever wud in the bimmer.The gt3 feels more special than csl in many respects and engine feels stronger .You have to ask yourself how ur going to use it...everyday=csl ...track=gt3 I have owned two, first stock , second similar to phatgixers, i now have a 996 tt, i wanted a gt3 but needed the rear seats, so ended up with the tt.
It may raise a few eyebrows but i still hanker after my old csl over the tt , if i could be bothered to swop the seats out and geet a decent price for the tt i could be tempted back into the csl .
can't se how anyone could compare it to a stock c2.
Keith
It may raise a few eyebrows but i still hanker after my old csl over the tt , if i could be bothered to swop the seats out and geet a decent price for the tt i could be tempted back into the csl .
can't se how anyone could compare it to a stock c2.
Keith
Keithp said:
I have owned two, first stock , second similar to phatgixers, i now have a 996 tt, i wanted a gt3 but needed the rear seats, so ended up with the tt.
It may raise a few eyebrows but i still hanker after my old csl over the tt , if i could be bothered to swop the seats out and geet a decent price for the tt i could be tempted back into the csl .
can't se how anyone could compare it to a stock c2.
Keith
Sounds very famalier....I had the TT and the CSL similtaniously....had to sell one to make way for the 7RS...the TT went as I prefered the CSL but now hanker after another TT......I'm confused.It may raise a few eyebrows but i still hanker after my old csl over the tt , if i could be bothered to swop the seats out and geet a decent price for the tt i could be tempted back into the csl .
can't se how anyone could compare it to a stock c2.
Keith
The CSL I think should stay whatever.......it truely is an awsome car...feels special even when taking it shopping.
To the guy who reckons there is very little difference between the M3 and CSL variants.........You aint drivin it right (with respect to you)
There is huge difference between a CSL and a standard M3. CSL is so much more than a parts bin special. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
The CSL could lap flat out for an hour at a time, use 3 tanks of petrol, then rive back home with no drama. 5 dys a week if needed. The only mod that is essential is change the standard pads for RS29s and change the fluid and hoses. The only other cr as durable is a 996RS, but would you really want to put that sort of stain on a £60K+ car? CSL is a handsome, superb engineered track / road car bargain at present. £30K buys a hell of car. Best engine in the world, ever.
Benno - 996C2? Doen't even come close! GT3 is miles more money and the RS is just plain silly in terms of price.
The CSL could lap flat out for an hour at a time, use 3 tanks of petrol, then rive back home with no drama. 5 dys a week if needed. The only mod that is essential is change the standard pads for RS29s and change the fluid and hoses. The only other cr as durable is a 996RS, but would you really want to put that sort of stain on a £60K+ car? CSL is a handsome, superb engineered track / road car bargain at present. £30K buys a hell of car. Best engine in the world, ever.
Benno - 996C2? Doen't even come close! GT3 is miles more money and the RS is just plain silly in terms of price.
Had an e46 M3 before and have a GT3 Mk1 now.
Had the chance to take a drive in a mate's CSL recently, and I was greatly surprised at the differences between it and a normal M3- especially the steering and cornering attitude.
Definitely a much easier car to hustle compared to the GT3, definitely just as fast, if not faster due to it's more forgiving nature, in the same hands. However, it doesn't make me emerge trembling with a soaked through t-shirt after a hard drive, unlike in the GT3, and that's what makes the GT3 special to me. After all, don't most of us have sensible daily drives?
Had the chance to take a drive in a mate's CSL recently, and I was greatly surprised at the differences between it and a normal M3- especially the steering and cornering attitude.
Definitely a much easier car to hustle compared to the GT3, definitely just as fast, if not faster due to it's more forgiving nature, in the same hands. However, it doesn't make me emerge trembling with a soaked through t-shirt after a hard drive, unlike in the GT3, and that's what makes the GT3 special to me. After all, don't most of us have sensible daily drives?
Unfortunately it is difficult to forget the £23k that my CSL cost me --- and I now have a GT3MkII which in twice the time will cost me 2/3ds as much, and after that almost nothing.
CSL's are probably an interesting buy now, there may be reliability issues since BMW have substantially increased the cost of their extended warraty, SMG around town was a learning process, --- the GT3 manual bein much easier.
On the track and in determined road driving, as described except that I use my GT3 on it's softest settings and would dispute the CSL superiority on B / C roads.
CSL's are probably an interesting buy now, there may be reliability issues since BMW have substantially increased the cost of their extended warraty, SMG around town was a learning process, --- the GT3 manual bein much easier.
On the track and in determined road driving, as described except that I use my GT3 on it's softest settings and would dispute the CSL superiority on B / C roads.
ChrisW. said:
Unfortunately it is difficult to forget the £23k that my CSL cost me --- .
Mere pup! Mine cost me £27K and I also spent a further £10K on upgrades in 20 months!If you bought an AP shod car now, I think the depreciation has beenpegged, and keep it nice, I reckon they'll appreciate.
My RS is no way worth over twice the money, that is for sure...
Just chatting to her indoors , a womans view , turbo nice fiendly obidient spaniel, csl lairy jack russel . She hated the csl with a passion , she loves the tt !
I feel for the people who lost big buck's first time round , but as a second hand purchase , bought right they are a good prospect , i did not lose much on mine at all.
Keith
I feel for the people who lost big buck's first time round , but as a second hand purchase , bought right they are a good prospect , i did not lose much on mine at all.
Keith
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff