Tiptronic Tips
Discussion
jb12 said:
Yes Yes, Great reply one for the Tip Camp, at the end of day I also say it’s down to the personnel choice
Personally I like my tip…..
You're not supporting the tip cause here!Personally I like my tip…..
Edited by jb12 on Thursday 2nd August 08:57
Must admit to never having driven one, but have nothing against them - each to their own.
2something said:
jb12 said:
Yes Yes, Great reply one for the Tip Camp, at the end of day I also say it’s down to the personnel choice
Personally I like my tip…..
You're not supporting the tip cause here!Personally I like my tip…..
Edited by jb12 on Thursday 2nd August 08:57
Must admit to never having driven one, but have nothing against them - each to their own.
I dont understand this part?
"The Tip system is placed on the steering wheel (or behind on the newer system) for fast and accurate gear changes - much faster than anyone can manage with a manual gearbox - hence the important reason why Formula 1 and World Rally Cars use and prefer that system."
The tiptronic is an automatic transmission (torque converter etc). (or so i thought) F1 cars use sequential manual gearboxes?
The only similarities is that you push a button to change gear....am i missing something?
"The Tip system is placed on the steering wheel (or behind on the newer system) for fast and accurate gear changes - much faster than anyone can manage with a manual gearbox - hence the important reason why Formula 1 and World Rally Cars use and prefer that system."
The tiptronic is an automatic transmission (torque converter etc). (or so i thought) F1 cars use sequential manual gearboxes?
The only similarities is that you push a button to change gear....am i missing something?
Not sure I agree with "rally champ".
There are a few inaccuracies in there. The SMG is not a DSG for one. The SMG is a manual box with an automated clutch and gear selection system. And although F1 and WRC cars utilise paddle selectors, their gearboxes are more akin to the SMG found in the M3 than the Porsche automatic.
The SMG is a far superior system to the tiptronic. There is no comparison other than the method used in selcting gears.
The SMG is an evolutionary dead end, in my opinion, soon to be superceded by the double clutch systems.
Of all the ways to absolutely destroy the potential of a Porsche, I can think of none more effective than checking the box on the order form for tiptronic. Sure, the turbo can accelerate quite well with the tip. Drag racers have been using automatics for years. That is no secret.
If the tiptronic was so great, then Porsche would be supplying it in the RS, and all of their competitions cars would be so equipped.
Porsche raced with the PDK, in the 956 I beleive, and I they may have even used their old automatic in a 911 rally car years ago as a publicity stunt, but they are well aware that the tip is not up to the job.
The Tip opens up a market segment to Porsche, much like the cabrios and Cayenne do. It attracts a customer who might not otherwise consider Porsche. It is a marketing neccessity, not a real alternative to a proper gearbox, nor a great feat of engineering.
It is a sensible device for the physically handicapped, but for those of us with two legs, it is an abomination.
There are a few inaccuracies in there. The SMG is not a DSG for one. The SMG is a manual box with an automated clutch and gear selection system. And although F1 and WRC cars utilise paddle selectors, their gearboxes are more akin to the SMG found in the M3 than the Porsche automatic.
The SMG is a far superior system to the tiptronic. There is no comparison other than the method used in selcting gears.
The SMG is an evolutionary dead end, in my opinion, soon to be superceded by the double clutch systems.
Of all the ways to absolutely destroy the potential of a Porsche, I can think of none more effective than checking the box on the order form for tiptronic. Sure, the turbo can accelerate quite well with the tip. Drag racers have been using automatics for years. That is no secret.
If the tiptronic was so great, then Porsche would be supplying it in the RS, and all of their competitions cars would be so equipped.
Porsche raced with the PDK, in the 956 I beleive, and I they may have even used their old automatic in a 911 rally car years ago as a publicity stunt, but they are well aware that the tip is not up to the job.
The Tip opens up a market segment to Porsche, much like the cabrios and Cayenne do. It attracts a customer who might not otherwise consider Porsche. It is a marketing neccessity, not a real alternative to a proper gearbox, nor a great feat of engineering.
It is a sensible device for the physically handicapped, but for those of us with two legs, it is an abomination.
Los Angeles said:
Your comment below doesn't really help the discussion.
I was pointing out the only positive argument that I can find for the tip. Whether or not it helps the discussion is not my concern. Hammerwerfer said:
It is a sensible device for the physically handicapped, but for those of us with two legs, it is an abomination.
For those who are too lazy, unskilled, or handicapped, the tip is the logical choice. For those who want to get the most out of their car, the choice is obvious. You are sold on your tip and are prepared to preach the benefits thereof. I, on the other hand, feel that your messwage is heresy.
The tiptronic is an automatic (with torque converter) that can optionally be controlled by buttons/paddles/the shift stick, and hence has all of the disadvantages associated with an auto. It is not an automated manual gearbox.
Ultimately the tiptronic will make up its own mind which gear the car should be in, whether this is executing an up or down shift itself, or vetoing a change that the driver has requested (the same is true of automated manual 'boxes as well). Surely any enthusiastic or competition driver wants to be in the position of knowing exactly which gear the car will be in at a given time.
The only sure-fire way of knowing which gear will be in use is for the driver to put it there themselves via a manual gear change.
Ultimately the tiptronic will make up its own mind which gear the car should be in, whether this is executing an up or down shift itself, or vetoing a change that the driver has requested (the same is true of automated manual 'boxes as well). Surely any enthusiastic or competition driver wants to be in the position of knowing exactly which gear the car will be in at a given time.
The only sure-fire way of knowing which gear will be in use is for the driver to put it there themselves via a manual gear change.
my only experience of a tip was years ago when purchasing a boxster....2.5 tip or manual.....
I know the 2.5 was a well under powered car but Porsche should never have mated it to the 'slushmatic'....been put off ever since (opted for the manual in the end!)
However, I am curious to now how the 'tip' drove in say a 993 3.6 or 996 3.4/3.6?
I know the 2.5 was a well under powered car but Porsche should never have mated it to the 'slushmatic'....been put off ever since (opted for the manual in the end!)However, I am curious to now how the 'tip' drove in say a 993 3.6 or 996 3.4/3.6?
Los Angeles said:
Dear God, save us from the self-righteous. Look, I think manual is lovely. Now go away.
Why should I go away? I'm entitled to an opinion, and I think that there may be people who come here to get meaningful information and guidance prior to purchasing a Porsche. I would hate to see thm rely on you as the sole source of that information, especially when it comes to choice of gearbox.And what is this malarkey?:
"Does Tip alter its character depending on the model?
To some degree; it brings out the unique characteristics of the air cooled engine over the 996 and 997 derivatives."
Are we to take that seriously?
I bought a Tip becuase I already own a TVR Sagaris and my Wife wouldn't let he have the 996 unless it was an auto so she would drive it too. Simple as that.
My question though is about driving techniques. To me the biggest flaw of the Tip is that it doesn't match engine revs with a blip on the downchange, so downchanges while tramping on are frankly HORRIBLE. This wouldn't be so bad if there were a way to do it yourself while left foot braking but, try as I might, it seems that the throttle is cut out during the downshift. This is a tragic pity as the pedals are perfectly placed for left foot braking and it annoys the bejeezus out of me.
Anyone have an answer - is it just a technique problem on my part?
My question though is about driving techniques. To me the biggest flaw of the Tip is that it doesn't match engine revs with a blip on the downchange, so downchanges while tramping on are frankly HORRIBLE. This wouldn't be so bad if there were a way to do it yourself while left foot braking but, try as I might, it seems that the throttle is cut out during the downshift. This is a tragic pity as the pedals are perfectly placed for left foot braking and it annoys the bejeezus out of me.
Anyone have an answer - is it just a technique problem on my part?
Hammerwerfer said:
Not sure I agree with "rally champ".
If the tiptronic was so great, then Porsche would be supplying it in the RS, and all of their competitions cars would be so equipped.
The Tip opens up a market segment to Porsche, much like the cabrios and Cayenne do. It attracts a customer who might not otherwise consider Porsche. It is a marketing neccessity, not a real alternative to a proper gearbox, nor a great feat of engineering.
I think you could tranpose those two paragraphs and end up with the same argument pointing the other way...If the tiptronic was so great, then Porsche would be supplying it in the RS, and all of their competitions cars would be so equipped.
The Tip opens up a market segment to Porsche, much like the cabrios and Cayenne do. It attracts a customer who might not otherwise consider Porsche. It is a marketing neccessity, not a real alternative to a proper gearbox, nor a great feat of engineering.
Allow me:
If the 'Manual' was so great, then Porsche would be supplying it in the RS, (and all of their *competitions cars would be so equipped.)
The 'Manual retains' a market segment to Porsche, much like the cabrios and Cayenne do. It attracts a customer who might not otherwise consider Porsche. It is a marketing neccessity (99% manuals...), not a real alternative to 'an effective' gearbox, nor a great feat of engineering.
- Competition cars are quite different, unfair to compare road needs and use. Durability being paramount
Edited by Police State on Thursday 2nd August 21:29
Jappo said:
I bought a Tip becuase I already own a TVR Sagaris and my Wife wouldn't let he have the 996 unless it was an auto so she would drive it too. Simple as that.
My question though is about driving techniques. To me the biggest flaw of the Tip is that it doesn't match engine revs with a blip on the downchange, so downchanges while tramping on are frankly HORRIBLE. This wouldn't be so bad if there were a way to do it yourself while left foot braking but, try as I might, it seems that the throttle is cut out during the downshift. This is a tragic pity as the pedals are perfectly placed for left foot braking and it annoys the bejeezus out of me.
Anyone have an answer - is it just a technique problem on my part?
I don't know about the 996 tip, but the 993 lets me drop a gear or two with a blip of the pedal, 25% gives me the next gear down, 50% the next after that, on the 1st blip, I get matched revs, on the 2nd I get just a tad under-matched, which would be the same if it were a manual, unless my surname was Senna. As I said on the thread that begat this one, my only misgiving is that Porsche should have given the 993 5 cogs (though I'm convinced there's a secret 5th My question though is about driving techniques. To me the biggest flaw of the Tip is that it doesn't match engine revs with a blip on the downchange, so downchanges while tramping on are frankly HORRIBLE. This wouldn't be so bad if there were a way to do it yourself while left foot braking but, try as I might, it seems that the throttle is cut out during the downshift. This is a tragic pity as the pedals are perfectly placed for left foot braking and it annoys the bejeezus out of me.
Anyone have an answer - is it just a technique problem on my part?
...)Los Angeles said:
Probably 99% of all 911s are manual transmission so we are trying to preach to the hard of hearing.
this is nonsense in the UK - the bloody things are everywhere - more like 25% in UKand to say or torque converter auto with buttons is what is used in F1 is nonsense
I think tip is awful but I am not some blinkered autophobe, I might actually prefer a proper sequential manual / SMG type thing over a manual in a 911, just not the tip slushbox
Los Angeles said:
Adam B said:
Los Angeles said:
Probably 99% of all 911s are manual transmission so we are trying to preach to the hard of hearing.
this is nonsense in the UK - the bloody things are everywhere - more like 25% in UKAnd get off your high horse LA, a) I have not complained about owners at all, b) certainly don't make me feel "uncomfortable" and c) I complain about tips as a gearbox because that is my personal opinion which tends to be what this webste is about. Maybe rather than whinging we could discuss my point (nice selective quoting of me there) where I query why someone claims tips must be good because they use them in F1?
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